"LDS Church: Legal analysis raises concerns about Utah medical marijuana initiative"

Tacenda · July 11, 2018

10 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I want a meth lab in my neighborhood. Now there’s a winner. We had one across the street from the high school where I taught and my kids attended. Heck, in Seattle mobile meth labs in RVs park on residential streets. Lots of poisons and other wondrous things are added to various intoxicants (including pot) to make them more potent and addictive. Cool. I want some. Drugs...more drugs...Bring it on.

We have a pot growing, processing, and distribution facility approved in our residential neighborhood. The owner assured us it will be surrounded by razor wire fences and security lighting and cameras that will alert him at home (in another town) if someone tries to break in at night. Secured from whom? Who would want to break in?

Heck no, I don’t want to outlaw such stuff. It’s great!

Bernard, I would feel the same as you if here in Layton, Utah this was happening to me with the situations you have given. I see where you're coming from and hope there is a solution soon in your neck of the woods. Remember the problem neighborhoods had with xxx movie theatres being in nearby neighborhoods? Well in Utah they were shut down. I'm hoping this will occur in your neighborhoods with pot growing facilities. Although, I see no problem with a home growing a pot or two of the plant to treat oneself.

jkwilliams · July 11, 2018

1 minute ago, Tacenda said:

Bernard, I would feel the same as you if here in Layton, Utah this was happening to me with the situations you have given. I see where you're coming from and hope there is a solution soon in your neck of the woods. Remember the problem neighborhoods had with xxx movie theatres being in nearby neighborhoods? Well in Utah they were shut down. I'm hoping this will occur in your neighborhoods with pot growing facilities. Although, I see no problem with a home growing a pot or two of the plant to treat oneself.

Seems kind of bizarre to approve a pot business in a residential neighborhood. Do they not have zoning laws in Bernard's neighborhood? I didn't enjoy having drug dealers living next door a few years ago. Of course, I had no proof that was what was going on, but I certainly suspected. Then came the night when it seemed half the Provo Police Department (14 patrol cars and a tactical vehicle) filled our cul de sac late one evening.

Bernard Gui · July 11, 2018

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Bernard, I would feel the same as you if here in Layton, Utah this was happening to me with the situations you have given. I see where you're coming from and hope there is a solution soon in your neck of the woods. Remember the problem neighborhoods had with xxx movie theatres being in nearby neighborhoods? Well in Utah they were shut down. I'm hoping this will occur in your neighborhoods with pot growing facilities. Although, I see no problem with a home growing a pot or two of the plant to treat oneself.

Thanks for the kind words! Unforeseen blessings of pot legalization.

Edited July 11, 2018 by Bernard Gui

Bernard Gui · July 11, 2018

3 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

Seems kind of bizarre to approve a pot business in a residential neighborhood. Do they not have zoning laws in Bernard's neighborhood? I didn't enjoy having drug dealers living next door a few years ago. Of course, I had no proof that was what was going on, but I certainly suspected. Then came the night when it seemed half the Provo Police Department (14 patrol cars and a tactical vehicle) filled our cul de sac late one evening.

Yes, we have zoning laws. The area where the pot place is was recently rezoned light industrial, but there are homes in the zone. It is about 1/3 mile from our home. We drive by it every day. The restrictions are basically applied to proximity to schools and youth facilities. Even though there are nearby residences, a youth sport facility across the parking lot, and a future elementary school property within 300 yards, the county approved it anyway over about 50 neighborhood protests.

Edited July 11, 2018 by Bernard Gui

Kenngo1969 · July 12, 2018

6 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Thanks, I was unaware of this. I've read there are medicinal properties to help dogs/cats, but definitely need to watch to not overdose. In the article below it mentions the benefits too.

https://www.petmd.com/dog/general-health/cannabis-oil-dogs-everything-you-need-know

Thanks. Do you know where I can find information on the appropriate dosage of marijuana for dogs (for the sake of this discussion, let's say I have a pet who may benefit)? While we're at it, can you point me to a reliable source for dosing in humans (that ought to be the easier of the two, but I think it'll still be plenty challenging enough)?

Tacenda · July 12, 2018

37 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Thanks. Do you know where I can find information on the appropriate dosage of marijuana for dogs (for the sake of this discussion, let's say I have a pet who may benefit)? While we're at it, can you point me to a reliable source for dosing in humans (that ought to be the easier of the two, but I think it'll still be plenty challenging enough)?

Ken, you're probably playing with me.😒 But I read daily the actual experiences on a FB group called Cannabis Oil Success Stories. Are you on FB? I wonder if you're able to see it if you're not. Even if this is a trick question or game, I'm glad you asked so others may check it out because there is nothing better then reading actual experiences from average people in all walks of life, just as scared about using a illegal substance such as marijuana to treat ailments, or even curing disease. Anyone can sign up to be in it and to the left you are able to search and find out the experiences people have had and dosages they tried and what worked and didn't.

ETA: I figured I have time...I'm going to post some testimonials from FB.

Ever wondered about treating animals with cannabis? Here's my own personal testimony:

So, my dad came over with his dog last Tuesday, totally distraught because he'd just come from the vet, and had received bad news about his dog. 2 days prior, he'd been grooming her, and noticed a quarter-sized lump on her anus. The vet told him that it was not a clogged **** gland, and that it's very possibly cancer. There would be no way to know for sure, unless they removed it and biopsied it, which would cost $1000. He didn't have the $$, and his dog is 12 years old... So I suggested looking into cannabis oil. He had used it to treat his own cancer with great success, so why not? That afternoon, he applied some cannabis salve that I had made with cannabis-infused coconut oil, vitamin E, essential oils, and beeswax. After 2 days, the tumor was 1/4 of its original size, and 4 days later, it was completely gone. Now, mind you, we have no idea if it was cancer, but the vet said that because of the appearance and location, he didn't believe it to be just an abscess. Whatever it was, it appears to be gone. Cannabis, the miracle plant, to the rescue! My dad couldn't be more thrilled.

🐕

My little 10lb dog has had a small lump on his head for two years. The vet said it's fine, nothing to worry about. It grows larger and fills with fluid, then reduces in size but this year it just stayed enlarged. So I started him on 3 drops of oil, in his food, morning and night. No side effects that I can see except he sleeps well. I checked the lump this morning and it is half the size and instead of feeling like it was filled with fluid, it now feels like just a small lump that has shrunken and drained. I started the oil the end of last week. I'd say it'll be completely gone within another 3-5 days, give or take! And he seems happier too!

Edited July 12, 2018 by Tacenda

Calm · July 12, 2018

4 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Yes, we have zoning laws. The area where the pot place is was recently rezoned light industrial, but there are homes in the zone. It is about 1/3 mile from our home. We drive by it every day. The restrictions are basically applied to proximity to schools and youth facilities. Even though there are nearby residences, a youth sport facility across the parking lot, and a future elementary school property within 300 yards, the county approved it anyway over about 50 neighborhood protests.

Revenue, revenue, revenue...

california boy · July 12, 2018

6 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Thanks. Do you know where I can find information on the appropriate dosage of marijuana for dogs (for the sake of this discussion, let's say I have a pet who may benefit)? While we're at it, can you point me to a reliable source for dosing in humans (that ought to be the easier of the two, but I think it'll still be plenty challenging enough)?

I doubt that this is a serious question, but I can give you an answer anyway. Everyone absorbs medications differently. That is also true with Big Pharm medications. Usually the doctor prescribes one size fits all dosages and then sees how you do. Because marijuana is not packaged in little pills, it is possible to regulate the medication yourself. The normal advice is to take a very small dose, wait a half hour and see how you feel. Repeat until you can feel the medication working. Now you know the dose.

I have a friend that makes his own brownies each year. He does it consistently every time. Then he cuts them into 1/4 bits, wraps them in tinfoil and freezes them. Through his own experimentation, he knows that a quarter of his brownies is the perfect dose he needs. Hope that is helpful.

Kenngo1969 · July 12, 2018

6 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Ken, you're probably playing with me.😒 But I read daily the actual experiences on a FB group called Cannabis Oil Success Stories. Are you on FB? I wonder if you're able to see it if you're not. Even if this is a trick question or game, I'm glad you asked so others may check it out because there is nothing better then reading actual experiences from average people in all walks of life, just as scared about using a illegal substance such as marijuana to treat ailments, or even curing disease. Anyone can sign up to be in it and to the left you are able to search and find out the experiences people have had and dosages they tried and what worked and didn't.

ETA: I figured I have time...I'm going to post some testimonials from FB.

Ever wondered about treating animals with cannabis? Here's my own personal testimony:

So, my dad came over with his dog last Tuesday, totally distraught because he'd just come from the vet, and had received bad news about his dog. 2 days prior, he'd been grooming her, and noticed a quarter-sized lump on her anus. The vet told him that it was not a clogged **** gland, and that it's very possibly cancer. There would be no way to know for sure, unless they removed it and biopsied it, which would cost $1000. He didn't have the $$, and his dog is 12 years old... So I suggested looking into cannabis oil. He had used it to treat his own cancer with great success, so why not? That afternoon, he applied some cannabis salve that I had made with cannabis-infused coconut oil, vitamin E, essential oils, and beeswax. After 2 days, the tumor was 1/4 of its original size, and 4 days later, it was completely gone. Now, mind you, we have no idea if it was cancer, but the vet said that because of the appearance and location, he didn't believe it to be just an abscess. Whatever it was, it appears to be gone. Cannabis, the miracle plant, to the rescue! My dad couldn't be more thrilled.

🐕

My little 10lb dog has had a small lump on his head for two years. The vet said it's fine, nothing to worry about. It grows larger and fills with fluid, then reduces in size but this year it just stayed enlarged. So I started him on 3 drops of oil, in his food, morning and night. No side effects that I can see except he sleeps well. I checked the lump this morning and it is half the size and instead of feeling like it was filled with fluid, it now feels like just a small lump that has shrunken and drained. I started the oil the end of last week. I'd say it'll be completely gone within another 3-5 days, give or take! And he seems happier too!

Tacenda, thanks for the anecdotal information regarding animal miracle cures. That wasn't exactly what I was looking for, and frankly, My Cynical Self is inclined to distrust information which avers that nonstandardized, non-systematized use of a single substance can cure a wide constellation of disparate symptoms. (And how do you know these are "actual experiences"? Do you know the people involved personally? Isn't there a possibility, a remote one, perhaps, but still a possibility, that one or more of these people decided to prank gullible people who will believe anything they read on the Internet?) Still, thanks nonetheless. On the other hand, if these people say Mary Jo cured their doggies' ills, who am I to argue? :unknw:

Edited July 12, 2018 by Kenngo1969

Kenngo1969 · July 12, 2018

On 7/12/2018 at 2:49 AM, california boy said:

I doubt that this is a serious question, but I can give you an answer anyway. Everyone absorbs medications differently. That is also true with Big Pharm medications. Usually the doctor prescribes one size fits all dosages and then sees how you do. Because marijuana is not packaged in little pills, it is possible to regulate the medication yourself. The normal advice is to take a very small dose, wait a half hour and see how you feel. Repeat until you can feel the medication working. Now you know the dose.

I have a friend that makes his own brownies each year. He does it consistently every time. Then he cuts them into 1/4 bits, wraps them in tinfoil and freezes them. Through his own experimentation, he knows that a quarter of his brownies is the perfect dose he needs. Hope that is helpful.

Thank you for the information, California Boy, and yes, the information will be helpful, if-and-when I decide to start making my own Mary Jo brownies to cure whatever ails me. Does he test each batch of marijuana he gets for Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannibinol content and adjust his brownie recipe accordingly? Even if he gets his medicinal marijuana from the same source, such content can vary widely from plant to plant and, hence, from batch to batch.

And to make your Big Pharm example analogous to the marijuana example, the doctor would have to dispense all of his pills containing a certain medication from a large bottle which, although the bottle might be labeled "Miracledrugedex" and although all of the pills look the same, actually contains a wide variety of "Miracledrugedex" pills of varying dosages. At least, if I fill a prescription at my local pharmacy that says "Miracledrugedex, 10 mg q4h PRN (limit 5 per day)," and the prescription was prepared by a reasonably competent, reasonably diligent, reasonably careful pharmacist or pharmacy tech, I can be reasonably certain that each time I take one of those pills, 10 mg of Miracledrugedex is what I'm getting. Not so with your marijuana example.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Kenngo1969

Kenngo1969 · July 12, 2018

4 hours ago, Calm said:

Revenue, revenue, revenue...

True, true, true. I wonder, how long would it be after politicians of a particularly Libertarian bent decided to legalize all manner of currently-illegal conduct so they could tax such conduct and could, thereby, augment collections to government coffers before the negative externalities the conduct carries with it ("But, hey! It's legal!" :angry: :aggressive: ) began to offset (or even to outstrip) the benefits of the increased taxation?

california boy · July 12, 2018

4 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Thank you for the information, California Boy, and yes, the information will be helpful, if-and-when I decide to start making my own Mary Jo brownies to cure whatever ails me. Does he test each batch of marijuana he gets for Delta-4 Tetrahydrocannibinol content and adjust his brownie recipe accordingly? Even if he gets his medicinal marijuana from the same source, such content can vary widely from plant to plant and, hence, from batch to batch.

And to make your Big Pharm example analogous to the marijuana example, the doctor would have to dispense all of his pills containing a certain medication from a large bottle which, although the bottle might be labeled "Miracledrugedex" and although all of the pills look the same, actually contains a wide variety of "Miracledrugedex" pills of varying dosages. At least, if I fill a prescription at my local pharmacy that says "Miracledrugedex, 10 mg q4h PRN (limit 5 per day)," and the prescription was prepared by a reasonably competent, reasonably diligent, reasonably careful pharmacist or pharmacy tech, I can be reasonably certain that each time I take one of those pills, 10 mg of Miracledrugedex is what I'm getting. Not so with your marijuana example.

I don't think he is looking for that exact of dosage for every time he takes it. But he seems to get pretty consistent results each time he does it. It takes him a while to go through a batch of brownies since he is only taking a small piece each night. In any event, it doesn't seem to be a problem for him.

Bernard Gui · July 12, 2018

7 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Thank you for the information, California Boy, and yes, the information will be helpful, if-and-when I decide to start making my own Mary Jo brownies to cure whatever ails me. Does he test each batch of marijuana he gets for Delta-4 Tetrahydrocannibinol content and adjust his brownie recipe accordingly? Even if he gets his medicinal marijuana from the same source, such content can vary widely from plant to plant and, hence, from batch to batch.

And to make your Big Pharm example analogous to the marijuana example, the doctor would have to dispense all of his pills containing a certain medication from a large bottle which, although the bottle might be labeled "Miracledrugedex" and although all of the pills look the same, actually contains a wide variety of "Miracledrugedex" pills of varying dosages. At least, if I fill a prescription at my local pharmacy that says "Miracledrugedex, 10 mg q4h PRN (limit 5 per day)," and the prescription was prepared by a reasonably competent, reasonably diligent, reasonably careful pharmacist or pharmacy tech, I can be reasonably certain that each time I take one of those pills, 10 mg of Miracledrugedex is what I'm getting. Not so with your marijuana example.

Do you mean to say Malinda and Richard at the local Weed and Feed aren’t real pharmacists? But they prescribe, prepare, and dispense medicine, don’t they?

Edited July 12, 2018 by Bernard Gui

Tacenda · July 12, 2018

9 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Tacenda, thanks for the anecdotal information regarding animal miracle cures. That wasn't exactly what I was looking for, and frankly, My Cynical Self is inclined to distrust information which avers that nonstandardized, non-systematized use of a single substance can cure a wide constellation of disparate symptoms. (And how do you know these are "actual experiences"? Do you know the people involved personally? Isn't there a possibility, a remote one, perhaps, but still a possibility, that one or more of these people decided to prank gullible people who will believe anything they read on the Internet?) Still, thanks nonetheless. On the other hand, if these people say Mary Jo cured their doggies' ills, who am I to argue?

Sorry you feel this way, but curious to know what you think of herbs/essential oil supplements? My MIL avoids doctors as much as possible and she uses the prevent method vs. treat after the fact. She has a regular chiropractor and is a Young Living Essential Oils advocate.

She's in her late eighties and can run circles around me! What of the supplements out there that can be deadly if not used correctly? They aren't even tested like regular meds are we to turn those over to the pharm companies as well?

How many people die from medications from pharmaceuticals vs. cannabis? It's not even comparable. Try 99 - 100% more deaths from pharmaceuticals compared to cannabis, IMO .http://www.businessinsider.com/can-marijuana-kill-you-2016-11

But do agree when it comes to animals it's dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. But for humans no way, except if they get behind the wheel stoned possibly or other actions. But hey, if you're on your cell phone or drowsy it's the same thing. Below is another post on the private FB group. It's monitered well, to keep the fakes out too.

This one came on today...

My 73 lb Labrador Retriever just had a tumor removed from her thyroid and I spoke to Gary Richter DVM in Oakland, Ca and he suggested a THC dominant ratio oil at least 1:1 THC to CBD. The dosage he recommends starting off with is 3mg THC 2x a day for the first week and stepping up each week as much as she can handle without adverse side effects. We have opted not to do chemo or radiation due to her age and that most of the tumor was removed. My understanding is that a full extract oil, FECO/RSO style is going to be best but how hard is it going to be to measure out a 3, 6, or 9mg dose? Would a thinner tincture with a dropper that has marks for dosage be effective or should I focus on the thicker full extract oils and use a scale to measure dose based on mg per gram of oil. Also do any of you recommend a dispensary in Denver, Co that has tested/clean products that would be best? Thanks!

Rock_N_Roll · July 12, 2018

Anyone watch American Ninja Warrior? This "Mormon Mom" couldn't walk up until about 8 months ago. Now she is competing on American Ninja Warrior. She attributes this to cannabis and chiropractic car.

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=45603520&nid=148

pogi · July 12, 2018

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Sorry you feel this way, but curious to know what you think of herbs/essential oil supplements? My MIL avoids doctors as much as possible and she uses the prevent method vs. treat after the fact. She has a regular chiropractor and is a Young Living Essential Oils advocate.

She's in her late eighties and can run circles around me! What of the supplements out there that can be deadly if not used correctly? They aren't even tested like regular meds are we to turn those over to the pharm companies as well?

How many people die from medications from pharmaceuticals vs. cannabis? It's not even comparable. Try 99 - 100% more deaths from pharmaceuticals compared to cannabis, IMO .http://www.businessinsider.com/can-marijuana-kill-you-2016-11

But do agree when it comes to animals it's dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. But for humans no way, except if they get behind the wheel stoned possibly or other actions. But hey, if you're on your cell phone or drowsy it's the same thing. Below is another post on the private FB group. It's monitered well, to keep the fakes out too.

This one came on today...

My 73 lb Labrador Retriever just had a tumor removed from her thyroid and I spoke to Gary Richter DVM in Oakland, Ca and he suggested a THC dominant ratio oil at least 1:1 THC to CBD. The dosage he recommends starting off with is 3mg THC 2x a day for the first week and stepping up each week as much as she can handle without adverse side effects. We have opted not to do chemo or radiation due to her age and that most of the tumor was removed. My understanding is that a full extract oil, FECO/RSO style is going to be best but how hard is it going to be to measure out a 3, 6, or 9mg dose? Would a thinner tincture with a dropper that has marks for dosage be effective or should I focus on the thicker full extract oils and use a scale to measure dose based on mg per gram of oil. Also do any of you recommend a dispensary in Denver, Co that has tested/clean products that would be best? Thanks!

I am all about preventative medicine, but herbal supplements are mostly used as treatments rather than preventative measures. You don't need to spend a fortune on herbals as a preventative measure for good health. The best prevention is healthy eating, exercise, proper sleep, hydration, and stress reduction methods. While I have nothing wrong with the idea of herbal medicine and think it has lots of potential, I have HUGE problems with the industry as is. The herbal industry (for the most part) is a complete and total sham with unfounded claims and unregulated products.

My old home teacher, worked for a very prominent local Utah herbal supplement company. He was responsible for actually formulating the supplements they sold. The company would tell him, "we need a product for digestion", for example, and he would formulate the product. You would think someone in that position would have some background in medicine, or at least alternative medicine, health sciences, pharmaceuticals, etc. NOPE! He graduated in business management and admittedly new NOTHING about medicine and herbal products. The way he formulated his products was by google researching other herbal companies to see what ingredients they use for their digestion products and would simply copy what other people were doing!!! I literally had to pick my jaw off of the floor when he told me that. I could hardly believe that he was so open and honest about it as if it was normal and okay. THAT is the herbal industry! They are not going to spend lots of money to hire people who know what they are actually doing when they don't have to. They are not going to use high standards of production when they are unregulated. The truth is, chances are, you are not really getting what you paid for.

Quote

The findings are dismal and quite discouraging for consumers and health professionals alike. Only 48% of products were authentic. 59% of the products contained species not listed on the label. One-third contained fillers and contaminants that were not labeled. Amazingly, another third of products tested contained a substituted ingredient – and none of the labeled ingredient. Of the 12 companies sampled, only two had authentic products without any substitution, contaminants, and fillers. Unlabelled fillers including wheat, soy, and rice, were found in 20% of products. Three companies had products for which no products could be authenticated:

Some of the products were of such poor quality that harms could be expected. One sample was labelled as containing St. John’s wort (used to treat depression) but actually only contained senna, a laxative. Several products were contaminated with feverfew, which has chemical ingredients that can cause side effects, including withdrawal syndromes. Feverfew may also interfere with the elimination of some prescription drugs, and needs to be avoided in pregnancy. Another product was contaminated with black walnut, which has a nasty side effect profile. And there’s also the undisclosed wheat in some products, which would be harmful to those with Celiac disease or a wheat allergy.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/new-concerns-about-the-safety-and-quality-of-herbal-supplements/

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