New Research Reports Most Younger Mormons Now "Strongly Favor" or "Favor" SSM

[ALarson]

In this recent article, it state that although most Mormons (53%) still oppose gay marriage, this opposition is "fading fast" because most younger LDS support it:

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2018/05/01/most-mormons-remain-against-gay-marriage-new-poll-shows-but-that-opposition-is-fading-fast-younger-lds-support-it/

 

Quote

 

While most Mormons and other conservative Christian groups still eschew same-sex marriage, a new study shows dramatic erosion in that opposition.

Public Religion Research Institute researchers reported this week that LDS opposition to same-sex marriage, legalized in all 50 states in 2015, had dropped by 15 percentage points — from 68 percent in 2013 to 53 percent in 2017. Among younger Mormons, ages 18 to 29, most (52 percent) support allowing gay and lesbian couples to wed.

 

Quote

 

“This should be no surprise,” says Erika Munson, co-founder of Mormons Building Bridges, a grass-roots group seeking to enhances ties between the LGBTQ and LDS communities. “Every Mormon family, or extended family, has an LGBTQ member, and more and more of these people are being open about their [sexual] orientation.”

That is especially true among LDS youths, who are discovering more supportive attitudes from friends, social media and their parents.

 

That last statement is what I have found to be true within the youth in my ward.  Just listening to conversations or over hearing comments regarding gay friends or family members, I'm hearing support for gay rights and SSM.  I personally find this very encouraging.

But, I know not all will agree....

 

Edited May 2, 2018 by ALarson

[Duncan]

I find that too among the youth, not necessarily SSM but the what's wrong with LGBTQ people idea? and what do you say?

[stemelbow]

A generation or two and we’ll see the attitude most prevalent in the church ten years ago gone.  

[kllindley]

I hate the wording of the question. They don't distinguish between whether the individuals support legalizing SSM or support it as a morally acceptable decision. 

I support alcohol sales remaining legal. I do not personally drink, nor would I encourage anyone else to drink. I actually work to help people reduce their alcohol consumption and would be happy if the alcohol industry dried up. So do I "support alcohol" or not? 

[cacheman]

6 minutes ago, kllindley said:

I hate the wording of the question. They don't distinguish between whether the individuals support legalizing SSM or support it as a morally acceptable decision. 

I support alcohol sales remaining legal. I do not personally drink, nor would I encourage anyone else to drink. I actually work to help people reduce their alcohol consumption and would be happy if the alcohol industry dried up. So do I "support alcohol" or not? 

The question in the survey was specifically about whether one supports allowing same sex marriage to be legal. Not sure why someone would hate that question.  It would be interesting to also see the percentage who believe that ssm is morally acceptable.  I would be surprised if that statistic hasn't risen as well. 

[ALarson]

28 minutes ago, kllindley said:

I hate the wording of the question. They don't distinguish between whether the individuals support legalizing SSM or support it as a morally acceptable decision. 

I see your point.  Maybe one of the choices should have been I feel "indifferent" about it (or something similar)?  Many may not feel strongly in favor, in favor, strongly opposed or opposed (the only choices given).

Here's the question (for those who haven't followed the link in the article):

Quote

 

"Do you strongly favor, favor, oppose, or strongly oppose allowing gay and lesbian couples to marry legally?" [Check One]

- Strongly Favor

- Favor

- Oppose

- Strongly Oppose

 

Here's a comment that maybe expresses more how you feel, kllindley (minus the criticism of the church leadership)?

Quote

 

One thing I find interesting is that a lot of members have come to the realization that gay marriage has virtually no impact on them or their families. Husbands don't run away with the dog. Brothers don't marry sisters. The earth isn't knocked off it's access and we don't all plummet into the fires of Outer Darkness... demonstrating a certain maturity wholly absent from the leadership of the church.

imho, that is also a mentality I am willing to accept in relation to this issue, "I don't agree with same sex marriage, but it doesn't affect me or mine, so have at it."

 

 

Edited May 2, 2018 by ALarson

[kllindley]

10 minutes ago, cacheman said:

The question in the survey was specifically about whether one supports allowing same sex marriage to be legal. Not sure why someone would hate that question.  It would be interesting to also see the percentage who believe that ssm is morally acceptable.  I would be surprised if that statistic hasn't risen as well. 

Thank you for drawing my attention to the wording of the actual question. It was framed simply as "supporting same sex marriage" in the quotes. That difference is meaningful. 

 

[kllindley]

7 minutes ago, ALarson said:

I see your point.  Maybe one of the choices should have been I feel "indifferent" about it (or something similar)?  Many may not feel strongly in favor, in favor, strongly opposed or opposed (the only choices given).

Here's the question (for those who haven't followed the link in the article):

Here's a comment that maybe expresses more how you feel, kllindley (minus the criticism of the church leadership)?

 

Yeah, the actual question is better worded than the journalism. 😉 

To clarify, I honestly do believe that same-sex marriage will prove to bring negative consequences for society. Whether those consequences are any worse than the other ills of society (cohabitation outside of marriage, pornography, culture of no-fault divorce, absent fathers, etc.) I'm not convinced. 

But I do agree that legalizing same-sex marriage was the only logical and legal thing to do following 60 years of consistently eroding the meaning and value of marriage in society. We made marriage into something that was primarily about 2 adults, without any real obligation or commitment. From that point the gender of the two adults became meaningless. So, I believe that at this point legalizing same-sex marriage was inevitable. But so is the fact that many fathers fail to fulfill that role in any meaningful way. Being a bad dad is not illegal. Neither is it good for society. 

[ALarson]

3 minutes ago, kllindley said:

Yeah, the actual question is better worded than the journalism. 😉 

To clarify, I honestly do believe that same-sex marriage will prove to bring negative consequences for society. Whether those consequences are any worse than the other ills of society (cohabitation outside of marriage, pornography, culture of no-fault divorce, absent fathers, etc.) I'm not convinced. 

But I do agree that legalizing same-sex marriage was the only logical and legal thing to do following 60 years of consistently eroding the meaning and value of marriage in society. We made marriage into something that was primarily about 2 adults, without any real obligation or commitment. From that point the gender of the two adults became meaningless. So, I believe that at this point legalizing same-sex marriage was inevitable. But so is the fact that many fathers fail to fulfill that role in any meaningful way. Being a bad dad is not illegal. Neither is it good for society. 

I always want to read your input on this topic kllindley.  Your perspective is important and unique.  I can't say that I agree with all you wrote above, but I see it as being fair and honest.

Thanks.

Edited May 2, 2018 by ALarson

[kllindley]

4 minutes ago, ALarson said:

I always want to read your input on this topic kllindley.  Your perspective is important and unique.  I can't say that I agree with all you wrote above, but I see it as being fair and honest.

Thanks.

I'm not so sure it's all that unique. But I do acknowledge that it is underrepresented. 

[california boy]

From the article, I found this quote from the article thought provoking

Quote

 

The question may be whether the LDS Church’s traditionally elderly leadership — President Russell M. Nelson is 93 and his counselors in the governing First Presidency are in their mid-80s — will be able to hang onto the obedience of the faith’s younger members.

“[The leadership] can count on the support of the oldest members, but they cannot count on the support of, basically, the millennials ... especially on these kinds of social issues,” Mason says. “In other words: What happens when the membership no longer believes what the leadership is teaching?”

 

What do you think will happen when the majority of members no longer believes what the leadership is teaching?  

What is more astounding about these numbers is the dramatic shift in JUST ONE YEAR.  Last year the same poll showed these results 

The 2016 Poll Results

Quote

These PRRI findings are similar, but not identical, to what we found among the youngest and oldest Mormons in the Next Mormons Survey (NMS, 2016). The 18-26 age bracket of that study showed support for same sex-marriage at 40.2%, nearly twice the 20.3% support among Mormons 52 and over. So the NMS percentages aren’t as high as PRRI’s for either generation, but the 20-point difference between them is strikingly similar.

This years study shows these results

The 2017 Poll Results

Quote

 

While Latter-day Saints 65 and older remain opposed to same-sex unions (32 percent favor it), those ages 18 to 29 are solidly (52 percent) behind legalized same-sex marriages.

 

The 65 and older age bracket went from 20% support of gay marriage to 32%. That is a 12 point difference in a single year.   

The 18-29 age bracket went from 40% to 52%. Also a 12 point difference.  That is a monumental shift for a single year.  It also means the majority of young Mormons now support gay marriage.

Do you want to know what is even more impressive?  The change in supporting gay marriage from 2015 poll to 2016 poll was an 11% increase in support.  So in the last two years alone, support for gay marriage in the Mormon Church has swung 23 points in both of these age groups.  40% of all Mormons now support gay marriage.  

From 2017 poll

Quote

Opposition to same-sex marriage is now confined to a few of the most conservative Christian religious traditions. Only about one-third (34%) of white evangelical Protestants support same-sex marriage today, while nearly six in ten (58%) are opposed, including 30% who are strongly opposed. And just 40% of Mormons support same-sex marriage, compared to 53% who are opposed. Jehovah’s Witnesses, a racially mixed religious group, are the exception. Just 13% support the policy, compared to 63% who oppose it. However, nearly one-quarter (24%) of Jehovah’s Witnesses express no opinion on this issue.

Wow. The majority of Mormons still don't support gay marriage, but the percentage is rapidly increasing in just a years time.  Given the trends of the last two years, it is highly probable that the majority of all Mormons may support gay marriage this time next year.

When you have that big of change to supporting something that the church teaches directly against, and a majority of young people in the church supporting, you kind of wonder where this is all going to head.  Can the church continue to teach a principle that the majority of members don't agree with?  Has the church ever taught a doctrine that the majority of members disagreed with?

Hence the question asked in the article: "What happens when the membership no longer believes what the leadership is teaching?”

 

[california boy]

1 hour ago, kllindley said:

I hate the wording of the question. They don't distinguish between whether the individuals support legalizing SSM or support it as a morally acceptable decision. 

I support alcohol sales remaining legal. I do not personally drink, nor would I encourage anyone else to drink. I actually work to help people reduce their alcohol consumption and would be happy if the alcohol industry dried up. So do I "support alcohol" or not? 

I get your point.  And I think it is a very valid point.  But there is some difference between supporting the sale of alcohol and supporting gay marriage.  The church does not teach that it is wrong/immoral to sale alcohol.  So your support of selling alcohol is still in line with church teachings.  But the church does teach that gay marriage is wrong/immoral and support of that would be against church teachings.  

What can't be disputed is the shift towards supporting gay marriage among members of the church is dramatic despite the church leaders still being opposed to it, even legally.

[smac97]

1 hour ago, kllindley said:

I hate the wording of the question. They don't distinguish between whether the individuals support legalizing SSM or support it as a morally acceptable decision. 

I support alcohol sales remaining legal. I do not personally drink, nor would I encourage anyone else to drink. I actually work to help people reduce their alcohol consumption and would be happy if the alcohol industry dried up. So do I "support alcohol" or not? 

Good points.  I also wonder how many respondents have a same-sex-marriage-is-the-law-of-the-land-and-there's-nothing-I-can-do-about-it-anyway-so-why-oppose-it? approach to this issue.

Thanks,

-Smac

[ALarson]

25 minutes ago, california boy said:

Hence the question asked in the article: "What happens when the membership no longer believes what the leadership is teaching?”

I think that's a question many (especially the younger members) are faced with even now.  The majority of them (youth) already find themselves in this position.

I believe some just chalk it up to the leadership being old and very conservative in their beliefs.  They feel it's ok to disagree with them on this issue and that they can still be active, believing members (and they can).  What's happening though (that I'm seeing) is that it's a crack that can lead to more cracks and a lot of the youth are not attending as much as they were (inactive rates are rising at least in my area).  I'm not saying it's only over this issue, but this is an important one that is on the mind of a lot of youth because they have openly gay friends and family members.

Edited May 2, 2018 by ALarson

[Kenngo1969]

Nope, gay marriage doesn't affect me and mine, nor does it affect those of anyone I know! Nothin' to see here, folks!  Move along!*

*Unfortunately, by the time people with that attitude realize that the legalization of gay marriage was simply another step in a long journey toward the gay marriage tail wagging the marriage-between-a-man-and-a-woman-is-ordained-of-God dog (OK, bad metaphor for this particular example, but you see where I'm going here), it'll be too late.  Religion and religious attitudes and motivations are, after all, tres passe in our Uber-enlightened, post-modernist world!

I would, of course, be shouted down for daring to express this view if I tried to do it at 95% of the college campuses in this country.  (After all, we must protect the Precious Little Snowflakes from exposure to ideas with which they might ... [Gasp!] ... disagree, never mind the facts that: (1) One of the very raisons d'etre of the First Amendment is that it is intended to protect speech which does exactly that; and (2) Something on the order of 95% of the little darlings can't even enumerate which freedoms the First Amendment protects in the first place, let alone why those protections exist.)

Edited May 2, 2018 by Kenngo1969

[6EQUJ5]

31 minutes ago, california boy said:

Hence the question asked in the article: "What happens when the membership no longer believes what the leadership is teaching?”

I think this question is ridiculous.  It is like asking, what happens when red is blue?

We know the Gospel will never again be taken from the Earth. There will always be some even if only a remnant, who will be faithful and believe.

[ALarson]

1 minute ago, Kenngo1969 said:

*Unfortunately, by the time people with that attitude realize that the legalization of gay marriage was simply another step in a long journey toward the gay marriage tail wagging the marriage-between-a-man-and-a-woman-is-ordained-of-God dog (OK, bad metaphor for this particular example, but you see where I'm going here), it'll be too late.  

Too late for what? (sincere question....)

How has it harmed you that gay couples can now be legally married?  Has it affect you at all? (More sincere questions...  )

[Robert F. Smith]

3 hours ago, ALarson said:

........................

Quote

One thing I find interesting is that a lot of members have come to the realization that gay marriage has virtually no impact on them or their families. Husbands don't run away with the dog. Brothers don't marry sisters. The earth isn't knocked off it's access and we don't all plummet into the fires of Outer Darkness... demonstrating a certain maturity wholly absent from the leadership of the church [this is not a quote from Larson]

.............................

Don't know why someone would believe or say that, since the leadership of the LDS Church probably shares the same basic views found throughout the Church membership, and in the same percentages based on age, etc.

There is a world of difference between accepting the open and legal practice of some sort of non-traditional behavior, and actually being in favor of it.  The title of the OP misstates the issue.  A lot of people just have tolerance for diversity of practices among their fellow citizens.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Robert F. Smith

[Jeanne]

A new generation that perhaps understands love and tolerance more than many.  I see nothing wrong with that;  Maybe there is hope for a better understanding of a gospel..because this is what Jesus meant by loving one another. 

[ALarson]

48 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Don't know why someone would believe or say that, since the leadership of the LDS Church probably shares the same basic views found throughout the Church membership, and in the same percentages based on age, etc.

Robert, just to be clear.....you made that appear as if it was a quote from me and it is not.  (And I specifically made note of disagreement with the part you put in bold as well.)

Do you mind editing your comment and making it clear that quote was written by someone else?  Thanks

Edited May 2, 2018 by ALarson

[Kenngo1969]

23 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Too late for what? (sincere question....)

How has it harmed you that gay couples can now be legally married?  Has it affect you at all? (More sincere questions...  )

I'm envious of your sanguinity in the face of the magnanimous grant by the majority of the Nine Wise Souls who decided Obergefell v. Hodges that the religiously devout may continue to "believe" and to "teach" as they wish regarding homosexual physical intimacy. and gay marriage ... The problem ... and the reason I am less sanguine than you ... is that that's not what the First Amendment says: It protects (or at least it is supposed to protect) more than mere "belief" or the right to "teach" one's beliefs.  And the majority's decision in Obergefell is far from the only decision which worries me, nor is gay marriage the only such issue:  With the right access and a little research, I can cite a line of court decisions stretching back decades in which deciding majorities have unduly narrowed free exercise.

[ALarson]

52 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

The title of the OP misstates the issue. 

That's not true.  It maybe isn't your issue, but the title and opening post perfectly state what is in the content of the article and the results of the study posted:

Quote

Among younger Mormons, ages 18 to 29, most (52 percent) support allowing gay and lesbian couples to wed.

If you want to discuss a different issue, then please start another thread.  But don't claim I've misstated what's in the article I was posting to discuss.  The question posed wasn't do you just tolerate SSM,  it was: ""Do you strongly favor, favor, oppose, or strongly oppose allowing gay and lesbian couples to marry legally?"  With these choices to mark:

- Strongly Favor

- Favor

- Oppose

- Strongly Oppose

So no, the issue wasn't whether younger members of the church "have tolerance" for SSM.

Edited May 2, 2018 by ALarson

[ALarson]

6 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I'm envious of your sanguinity in the face of the magnanimous grant by the majority of the Nine Wise Souls who decided Obergefell v. Hodges that the religiously devout may continue to "believe" and to "teach" as they wish regarding homosexual physical intimacy. and gay marriage ... The problem ... and the reason I am less sanguine than you ... is that that's not what the First Amendment says: It protects (or at least it is supposed to protect) more than mere "belief" or the right to "teach" one's beliefs.  And the majority's decision in Obergefell is far from the only decision which worries me, nor is gay marriage the only such issue:  With the right access and a little research, I can cite a line of court decisions stretching back decades in which deciding majorities have unduly narrowed free exercise.

Ok.  But you really didn't answer any of my questions.  Lots of words, but no specific answers.  Here are my questions again:

56 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Too late for what? (sincere question....)

How has it harmed you that gay couples can now be legally married?  Has it affect you at all? (More sincere questions...  )

I'm fine if you don't want to answer (you're under no obligation, of course, and I'll respect that.)

 

Edited May 2, 2018 by ALarson

[nuclearfuels]

As a Libertarian, the SLTrib doesn't speak for me politically, just as Deseret News doesn't speak for me spiritually.  Nor do cleverly crafted sophist surveys speak for me.  Crafted too many of those surveys in college, designed to elicit a specific reaction while claiming objectivity. Nah, brah - convincing arguments take different shapes, like logic, reason, science, math.

What I'd like to see is a survey like that which included questions about acceptability of polyamory, polygamy, polygyny, etc.

A few versus come to mind though, about the rising generation, to say nothing about how the odds are stacked against their spiritual develpment more than any other generation in history

3 Nephi 1:30

30 And thus were the Lamanites afflicted also, and began to decrease as to their faith and righteousness, because of the wickedness of the ^arising generation.

Mosiah 26:1

1 Now it came to pass that there were many of the rising generation that could not understand the ^awords of king Benjamin, being little children at the time he spake unto his people; and they did ^bnot believe the tradition of their fathers.

[JulieM]

1 hour ago, ALarson said:

I think that's a question many (especially the younger members) are faced with even now.  The majority of them (youth) already find themselves in this position.

I believe some just chalk it up to the leadership being old and very conservative in their beliefs.  They feel it's ok to disagree with them on this issue and that they can still be active, believing members (and they can).  What's happening though (that I'm seeing) is that it's a crack that can lead to more cracks and a lot of the youth are not attending as much as they were (inactive rates are rising at least in my area).  I'm not saying it's only over this issue, but this is an important one that is on the mind of a lot of youth because they have openly gay friends and family members.

All very true.  I work with the young women now and this topic is important to them.  I have to say that the majority support their gay friends and their right to marry.  Lots of rainbows drawn on their binders with “gay pride” in rainbow colors.  This next generation will not be opposing gay marriage (the majority of them), imo.