The Changing of the Guard, Part 2...as predicted.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Since the sudden shakeup of the Elders Quorum and the High Priest Group, things have progressed as expected. Our first meeting was the Sunday after General Conference, the new Quorum was as I stated in my first thread. It was people giving their opinions on how the Elders Quorum should be run. Since the following Sunday was Stake Conference, I told my wife and sons (my sons are in the same Ward) that Sunday last would be exactly the same. As predicted it was the same, and worse, with an addition of a survey concerning "ministering". In the survey question were asked questions like...

1. What families would you like to serve?

2. What companions would you prefer? 

3. Would you be willing to continue to "Home Teach" until new families can be assigned? 

Now, I do not know if this happened in any other Wards, but this "Ministering", is just going to be "Home Teaching and Visisting Teaching", by another name. The same assigning of families, home teaching companionships with Arronic Priesthood where possible, and when not possible others within Elders Quorum. The "reporting" will now be done via PPI's, instead of phone calls. Which is fine, but if it is just like Home Teaching, why call it something else? 

Following Priesthood, the son who was there on Sunday said, "you are creeping me out, how did you know, and how do you almost always know what is going to happen"? 

What hurt the most yesterday was the Elders Quorum President using a microphone to address us, stating that "it was for the High Priests who are always hard of hearing". Our Elders Quorum President speaks loudly, and continued to do so into the mic. At first we all thought it was a joke, but sadly we were wrong. He would pass the mic around, each time saying it was necessary for the High Priests. This might have been fine, if like the first Sunday, we were all over the chapel. But this Sunday we were all seated in the choir section that only has five rows. Not long into the meeting, one of the High Priests stood up to speak. When offered the mic, he said "I speak loud enough, and I am not going to use that, not a single person here is more than 12 foot from where I am standing". When the Elders Quorum repeated his same joke about our ability to hear, my friend said, "please stop doing that!". This is when I went into the hallways, only to realize all sitting near the chapel could hear what was being said on the mic. 

Was this the same everywhere? 

As for us, next Sunday it is the 5th Sunday, so joint meeting. I truly fear that this is all Priesthood will be in the future, which is little furture at all. Few lessons, little learning, and many no longer attending. 

[Jeanne]

7 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Since the sudden shakeup of the Elders Quorum and the High Priest Group, things have progressed as expected. Our first meeting was the Sunday after General Conference, the new Quorum was as I stated in my first thread. It was people giving their opinions on how the Elders Quorum should be run. Since the following Sunday was Stake Conference, I told my wife and sons (my sons are in the same Ward) that Sunday last would be exactly the same. As predicted it was the same, and worse, with an addition of a survey concerning "ministering". In the survey question were asked questions like...

1. What families would you like to serve?

2. What companions would you prefer? 

3. Would you be willing to continue to "Home Teach" until new families can be assigned? 

Now, I do not know if this happened in any other Wards, but this "Ministering", is just going to be "Home Teaching and Visisting Teaching", by another name. The same assigning of families, home teaching companionships with Arronic Priesthood where possible, and when not possible others within Elders Quorum. The "reporting" will now be done via PPI's, instead of phone calls. Which is fine, but if it is just like Home Teaching, why call it something else? 

Following Priesthood, the son who was there on Sunday said, "you are creeping me out, how did you know, and how do you almost always know what is going to happen"? 

What hurt the most yesterday was the Elders Quorum President using a microphone to address us, stating that "it was for the High Priests who are always hard of hearing". Our Elders Quorum President speaks loudly, and continued to do so into the mic. At first we all thought it was a joke, but sadly we were wrong. He would pass the mic around, each time saying it was necessary for the High Priests. This might have been fine, if like the first Sunday, we were all over the chapel. But this Sunday we were all seated in the choir section that only has five rows. Not long into the meeting, one of the High Priests stood up to speak. When offered the mic, he said "I speak loud enough, and I am not going to use that, not a single person here is more than 12 foot from where I am standing". When the Elders Quorum repeated his same joke about our ability to hear, my friend said, "please stop doing that!". This is when I went into the hallways, only to realize all sitting near the chapel could hear what was being said on the mic. 

Was this the same everywhere? 

As for us, next Sunday it is the 5th Sunday, so joint meeting. I truly fear that this is all Priesthood will be in the future, which is little furture at all. Few lessons, little learning, and many no longer attending. 

Wow Papa..I am surprised in many ways..but of course, this is your ward.  Your honesty speaks volumes  As one who is relatively deaf..sometimes things like this help..and sometimes it is so awfully patronizing.

[Marginal Gains]

Bill,  in what way(s) were you expecting Ministering to be different to Home Teaching?

[ksfisher]

15 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

The same assigning of families, home teaching companionships with Arronic Priesthood where possible, and when not possible others within Elders Quorum. The "reporting" will now be done via PPI's, instead of phone calls. Which is fine, but if it is just like Home Teaching, why call it something else? 

Were you expecting not to have assigned families to minister to or an assigned companion?

[ksfisher]

16 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Our Elders Quorum President speaks loudly, and continued to do so into the mic. At first we all thought it was a joke, but sadly we were wrong. He would pass the mic around, each time saying it was necessary for the High Priests

Sounds like the way people act when they are nervous.

[hope_for_things]

21 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

As for us, next Sunday it is the 5th Sunday, so joint meeting. I truly fear that this is all Priesthood will be in the future, which is little furture at all. Few lessons, little learning, and many no longer attending. 

Sounds like the 2 hr block needs to be implemented sooner than later.  

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Marginal Gains said:

Bill,  in what way(s) were you expecting Ministering to be different to Home Teaching?

I do not yet know what I was expecting. But if nothing is changing, why rename Home Teaching and Visiting Teaching? In short, changing the name, does not change the outcome. I remember when in the Army, we were instructed to stop calling the place where we ate, the "mess hall", and to start calling it the "dinning facility". Doing so did not change the quality of the food, or the way it was cooked. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

Sounds like the way people act when they are nervous.

You are right, and this could be the byproduct of such feelings. 

[HappyJackWagon]

We had a combined PH/RS 2 weeks ago. Combined youth/PH/RS last week, and next week is also a combined "everyone" meeting so I really have no clue how it will go. There really hasn't been a chance to see. We don't usually have that many combined meetings so it's been odd. Almost like they are avoiding going back to a regular meeting with just the quorum.

Nothing has changed with HT. All companionships and assignments are the same. Ministering is looking like hometeaching lite where we will only be hassled to report quarterly instead of monthly.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

We had a combined PH/RS 2 weeks ago. Combined youth/PH/RS last week, and next week is also a combined "everyone" meeting so I really have no clue how it will go. There really hasn't been a chance to see. We don't usually have that many combined meetings so it's been odd. Almost like they are avoiding going back to a regular meeting with just the quorum.

Nothing has changed with HT. All companionships and assignments are the same. Ministering is looking like hometeaching lite where we will only be hassled to report quarterly instead of monthly.

Well not hassled by phone calls, but many, many, more PPI's on Wednesday nights, or between meetings. So it will just be a different form of reporting, as in person.  

[Marginal Gains]

13 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

I do not yet know what I was expecting. But if nothing is changing, why rename Home Teaching and Visiting Teaching? In short, changing the name, does not change the outcome. I remember when in the Army, we were instructed to stop calling the place where we ate, the "mess hall", and to start calling it the "dinning facility". Doing so did not change the quality of the food, or the way it was cooked. 

I can’t help you there. Ministering and combining Priesthood seem like much ado about nothing.

[RevTestament]

25 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Since the sudden shakeup of the Elders Quorum and the High Priest Group, things have progressed as expected. Our first meeting was the Sunday after General Conference, the new Quorum was as I stated in my first thread. It was people giving their opinions on how the Elders Quorum should be run. Since the following Sunday was Stake Conference, I told my wife and sons (my sons are in the same Ward) that Sunday last would be exactly the same. As predicted it was the same, and worse, with an addition of a survey concerning "ministering". In the survey question were asked questions like...

1. What families would you like to serve?

2. What companions would you prefer? 

3. Would you be willing to continue to "Home Teach" until new families can be assigned? 

Now, I do not know if this happened in any other Wards, but this "Ministering", is just going to be "Home Teaching and Visisting Teaching", by another name. The same assigning of families, home teaching companionships with Arronic Priesthood where possible, and when not possible others within Elders Quorum. The "reporting" will now be done via PPI's, instead of phone calls. Which is fine, but if it is just like Home Teaching, why call it something else? 

Following Priesthood, the son who was there on Sunday said, "you are creeping me out, how did you know, and how do you almost always know what is going to happen"? 

Well, while there will be some similarities, I think there are enough differences to make this a new program. As it was explained to us, the ministers may have different companions for those being visited. You might visit a young family with your son, but an elderly couple with your wife in order to best match the needs of those being visited. Also the feeling of not wanting to be taught I assume will be gone. Some may want a lesson - especially the home bound, but I think the goal of this program is to be much more tailored to those being visited. I like that about it. I am kind of surprised about your negative reaction to it.

Quote

What hurt the most yesterday was the Elders Quorum President using a microphone to address us, stating that "it was for the High Priests who are always hard of hearing". Our Elders Quorum President speaks loudly, and continued to do so into the mic. At first we all thought it was a joke, but sadly we were wrong. He would pass the mic around, each time saying it was necessary for the High Priests. This might have been fine, if like the first Sunday, we were all over the chapel. But this Sunday we were all seated in the choir section that only has five rows. Not long into the meeting, one of the High Priests stood up to speak. When offered the mic, he said "I speak loud enough, and I am not going to use that, not a single person here is more than 12 foot from where I am standing". When the Elders Quorum repeated his same joke about our ability to hear, my friend said, "please stop doing that!". This is when I went into the hallways, only to realize all sitting near the chapel could hear what was being said on the mic. 

Was this the same everywhere? 

Ours was not at all like yours apparently. For one thing our Stake President does not have a loud voice. His voice was damaged years ago, and he has a kind of tenor, soft voice. He came to personally introduce us to the new program, and told us he has received several letters and communications about it. I've never known of our stake president hurting anyone's feelings. He is an attorney, and I think he is very attuned to how he says things. I think "jokes" that go wrong are a part of life - not a part of the new priesthood arrangement, but if it happens again, maybe you could mention it to your HC or someone in the stake presidency. I have not felt patronized by our new quorum leadership at all, but I think the Elders and HPs need to refrain from teasing one another during this changeover period. I have teased my son a little about it, but I think I had better stop that.

I do know that hurt feelings can become a cancer for Church members, and I hope you can forgive your EQP, and heal past this event. 

[Rain]

The problems you describe sound more like indicia problems. Not system problems. The "joke" is a comment that doesn't consider other people feelings. I don't have problem using the microphone at all as I know some people, young and old, that need it and would NEVER speak up in class to tell you that they do, but it shouldn't be pointed out who those people are even if it is more than just an assumption. The people who make those kind of comments are the same kind that assume that they don't need a mic because they are loud and get offended when you ask them to wear it anyway. 

It really saddens me what is happening in your ward. I don't get it.  It might be wise to start praying for the EQP and pray to love him.

[CV75]

1 hour ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Was this the same everywhere? 

No, it's been fine in our ward. But then, our high priests show up for moves, often in larger numbers than the elders. The priesthood (office) is not the men: We have a 70-year old elder and of course a couple of "younger" high priests but I'd say the 40+ age group surpasses the 20-40 age group for these moves. We force the young men, which means we get about 10% them to the moves.

We coined some new terms: Ministering Sisters are "Misters", Ministering Brothers are "Mothers" and I'm getting people to call me "The Very Reverend." Or "Pastor" in token of the same.

Our Bishop got together with the new EQ and RS Presidents and discussed how things will change; I think they will be developing more of a skill set list and make assignments as people need certain expertise to resolve issues (the Bishop is handing over much of this stuff, except worthiness and disbursement of funds, and retaining/focusing on youth-related work). I'm sure there will be a a list of contacts for everybody so that each member is somehow contacted as often as inspiration and agency allow.

[The Nehor]

It has been a success so far in my ward. Relief Society is ecstatic about bringing in the Young Women. We have our new Elder’s Quorum Presidency organized on Sunday and the Ministering assignments are coming already. People are already starting to work with their families to find out what kind of contact they want. I asked mine to check in with me every month or so at Church, feel free to send emails and texts, and to come to my Gospel Doctrine class and participate and I will consider myself ministered to.

The combination is also alleviating some budget concerns and the Elders and High Priests can hold more activities this year.

It seems depressing that people are calling it a bust in the first month.......

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, Rain said:

The problems you describe sound more like indicia problems. Not system problems. The "joke" is a comment that doesn't consider other people feelings. I don't have problem using the microphone at all as I know some people, young and old, that need it and would NEVER speak up in class to tell you that they do, but it shouldn't be pointed out who those people are even if it is more than just an assumption. The people who make those kind of comments are the same kind that assume that they don't need a mic because they are loud and get offended when you ask them to wear it anyway. 

It really saddens me what is happening in your ward. I don't get it.  It might be wise to start praying for the EQP and pray to love him.

I do pray for him, he is young, but a great man, husband and father. I do not wish to knock the wind out of his sails by seeming critical. I would never do this, but it takes a great deal for me to attend all three hours. So if it becomes an ongoing open floor discussion about the same issues weekly, I would be better served doing two hours and taking less pain meds for my back. In fact anything that can help me take less pain meds is a plus. 

[Rain]

1 hour ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

I do pray for him, he is young, but a great man, husband and father. I do not wish to knock the wind out of his sails by seeming critical. I would never do this, but it takes a great deal for me to attend all three hours. So if it becomes an ongoing open floor discussion about the same issues weekly, I would be better served doing two hours and taking less pain meds for my back. In fact anything that can help me take less pain meds is a plus. 

I think more effective would be to address him with your concerns.  Some people just don't get it without people telling them.   

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Rain said:

I think more effective would be to address him with your concerns.  Some people just don't get it without people telling them.   

I will, just have not had the opportunity. I would never, never, call out someone in public.  

[Avatar4321]

3 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

I do not yet know what I was expecting. But if nothing is changing, why rename Home Teaching and Visiting Teaching? In short, changing the name, does not change the outcome. I remember when in the Army, we were instructed to stop calling the place where we ate, the "mess hall", and to start calling it the "dinning facility". Doing so did not change the quality of the food, or the way it was cooked. 

If we were doing home teaching properly we shouldn’t be expecting changes

[Avatar4321]

3 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

I do not yet know what I was expecting. But if nothing is changing, why rename Home Teaching and Visiting Teaching? In short, changing the name, does not change the outcome. I remember when in the Army, we were instructed to stop calling the place where we ate, the "mess hall", and to start calling it the "dinning facility". Doing so did not change the quality of the food, or the way it was cooked. 

Also, have you asked the Lord how you can do things differently?

[The Nehor]

25 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

If we were doing home teaching properly we shouldn’t be expecting changes

I disagree.

A change does not delineate a failure. When Jesus came to tell the Nephites he fulfilled the Law of Moses he did not add a diatribe about how it was due to their failure to live it.

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

Also, have you asked the Lord how you can do things differently?

I have no calling, and I have been praying for the Elders Quorum President's success. I have already offered any help I can over, but privately. Having served in an Elders Quorum Presidency, as a High Priest Group Leader, in a Bishopric, and a number of Stake callings, including High Counsel. I have no need or desire to impose my wishes upon him, nor trying to insert myself publicly within the Quorum. My fear is that he keeps asking, via survey and an open floor policy of how others think he should do things, instead of doing as the Stake President instructed him. The day he was called, he said the Stake President told him to lead and conduct according to the instructions in the Leadership materials provided to every Stake President, Bishop and (now) Elders Quorum President, along with all other auxiliaries.  

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

If we were doing home teaching properly we shouldn’t be expecting changes

Cannot agree, implementing a "ministry" program means that any, or all can serve wherever they are needed. This way all Prriesthood leaders and Relief Society Presidents can call upon all to come to their aid, and by "all", I mean all who can serve those, or the one in need. 

[mnn727]

18 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

If we were doing home teaching properly we shouldn’t be expecting changes

I agree, we've always were supposed to minister to our families and were never held to doing the First Presidency message if our family or families needed something else in their life. No-one has ever asked me whether we gave the FP message for that month.

Edited April 25, 2018 by mnn727

[mnn727]

18 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

Also, have you asked the Lord how you can do things differently?

Exactly. After hearing it announce I prayed a number of times, the impression I received was to ask the families what they needed/wanted. SO far we've visited 2 of our families and they really liked being asked, we visit our third this evening.

Edited April 25, 2018 by mnn727