The Changing of the Guard; how did it go in your meeting?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, chileanseabass said:

Went as smooth as could be in our ward.  Stake Presidency wasted no time in getting the ball rolling across our large stake.  HPG and EQ leaders were released, and new EQ Presidency was sustained in all wards.  In ours, the presidency is composed of two Elders and a HP, all under the age of 40.  In our ward the EQ was usually a ghost town with the HP carrying the heavy lifting.  The older HPs were relieved to get a break and let some of the younger folks take over.  There was a level of excitement present I haven't seen before.

This is what happened with us, all younger men, with one HP as the second counselor. Again either the implied idea, or spoken that this was not a High Priest takeover. Such missed opportunites, just because someone is older, does not mean (especially in Spiritual matters) that someone younger needs to take over. Our callings are not heavy construction, although I admit sometimes it seems that way. 

[Guest]

17 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

As a High Priest can officiate in any office, how is having them join with the Elders out of harmony?

It is not, just perception I guess. My first four years as a member in military Branches, there was only one Priesthood group. 

[HappyJackWagon]

19 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

This is what happened with us, all younger men, with one HP as the second counselor. Again either the implied idea, or spoken that this was not a High Priest takeover. Such missed opportunites, just because someone is older, does not mean (especially in Spiritual matters) that someone younger needs to take over. Our callings are not heavy construction, although I admit sometimes it seems that way. 

As long as I can remember there's been the idea that the older leaders will be put out to pasture to make room for the new up and comers. Some of the old guard like being able to step aside. Others feel unwanted as if they hold less value than the young. The idea of being put out to pasture can be very negative for a person's psyche and I can see how this change could contribute to that notion for a lot of older HP's. For example, in our old HPG we had a lot of older men, former bishops, stake presidents, temple sealers etc. who were only involved calling-wise in the HPG as a teacher or a home teaching district leader. I fear some of those opportunities will be gone. Older HP will also be less likely to be serving in primary or young mens. I hope this move doesn't put the majority of HP over the age of 60 out to pasture. That would be a travesty.

[Avatar4321]

12 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

As long as I can remember there's been the idea that the older leaders will be put out to pasture to make room for the new up and comers. Some of the old guard like being able to step aside. Others feel unwanted as if they hold less value than the young. The idea of being put out to pasture can be very negative for a person's psyche and I can see how this change could contribute to that notion for a lot of older HP's. For example, in our old HPG we had a lot of older men, former bishops, stake presidents, temple sealers etc. who were only involved calling-wise in the HPG as a teacher or a home teaching district leader. I fear some of those opportunities will be gone. Older HP will also be less likely to be serving in primary or young mens. I hope this move doesn't put the majority of HP over the age of 60 out to pasture. That would be a travesty.

Why would less of them be teaching primary, young men’s, or Sunday school?

Edited April 9, 2018 by Avatar4321
Stupid autocorrect

[Amulek]

23 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Our Stake seems to have sort of set the whole thing up as a "not the High Priest's taking over", by not calling any High Priest who was currently serving, as even a counselor in any Elder's Quorum Presidency. [...] But it seemed more like a scorched earth policy, to eliminate the fears of the Elder's Quorum. An action that left many feeling like we are now outsiders.

That does seem to be taking the 'not a takeover' thing a little bit too literally. Hopefully, it will all settle down over the next couple of weeks while you're away. 

 

Quote

Each time a High Priest got up and talked about how great they thought it was, (for instance like me who will now be meeting with my sons and son-in-law), and Elder would get up and reassert how they thought it should be done.

I really like that now, whenever my parents come to visit, I can stick with my Dad during the third hour. He pretty much only ever makes comments during priesthood classes, and that's something I was missing out on under the old setup. In fact, all of the comments/stories/experiences that get shared during high priest group meetings are now things that are going to be shared with a wider audience. I think that's a really good thing.

 

[HappyJackWagon]

43 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

Why would less of them be teaching primary, young men’s, or Sunday school?

I meant to say that they "are" less likely, not that they "will be" less likely. In my experience, I have typically seen younger people working in these callings. Obviously that's not universal, but I would imagine that if we polled the average age of primary/YM/YW leaders in the church we would find that they are much younger than the average age 75 year old in my old HPG. That's just a guess so don't CFR me   I just think that older members have been aging out of a number of callings for quite a while and this could exacerbate that problem.

 

[Amulek]

6 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I meant to say that they "are" less likely, not that they "will be" less likely. In my experience, I have typically seen younger people working in these callings. Obviously that's not universal, but I would imagine that if we polled the average age of primary/YM/YW leaders in the church we would find that they are much younger than the average age 75 year old in my old HPG. That's just a guess so don't CFR me   I just think that older members have been aging out of a number of callings for quite a while and this could exacerbate that problem.

That tracks with my experience as well. We have a few 'older' teachers in our primary, including one who is 94, but he admittedly has a very hard time hearing some of the younger children. 

But this isn't unique to high priests. The changes are having a similar effect in the RS as well. I know we have multiple home-bound sisters currently serving as visiting teaching supervisors in our ward who may very well end up being released when the new ministering changes start substituting interviews for monthly statistical reporting. That had been a good calling for them before; one that allowed them to still serve some capacity and which allowed them to have contact with other sisters in the ward that they normally wouldn't be able to interact with. Hopefully, we will find additional ways to keep them engaged. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

As long as I can remember there's been the idea that the older leaders will be put out to pasture to make room for the new up and comers. Some of the old guard like being able to step aside. Others feel unwanted as if they hold less value than the young. The idea of being put out to pasture can be very negative for a person's psyche and I can see how this change could contribute to that notion for a lot of older HP's. For example, in our old HPG we had a lot of older men, former bishops, stake presidents, temple sealers etc. who were only involved calling-wise in the HPG as a teacher or a home teaching district leader. I fear some of those opportunities will be gone. Older HP will also be less likely to be serving in primary or young mens. I hope this move doesn't put the majority of HP over the age of 60 out to pasture. That would be a travesty.

I fear it will, and wow, I am over 60!  You make a good point, even the small callings of teaching, and other things will probably go away too, a younger people usually prefer younger teachers with whom they can relate. The more I think about, the more tired I feel about the future possibilities. 

[Kenngo1969]

On 4/8/2018 at 1:07 PM, JulieM said:

Our Relief Society went smoothly.  However, my husband said priesthood meeting was kind of a disaster.  He’s an Elder and was honestly excited about the change.  But I guess some were quite negative and didn’t care for many of the “know it all” High Priests joining them now.  And some of the HPs had an attitude of feeling demoted and that they were there to school the younger elders now.  I’m thinking it will evolve and get better each week (hopefully) and my husband is trying to be positive too.  Some just plain old don’t like change, I guess?

I know you get this;  I know your husband gets this ... even though I only know one of you on line and not in real life, and the other of you I don't know at all, but to those who are unhappy, I would ask ...

Who's really in charge?

Is the (now-former) High Priest Group Leader in charge?

Is the Elders Quorum President in charge, and, if so, what is it that he is "in charge" of? A newly-expanded Elders Quorum?

Is the Bishop of the Ward, who still is a member of the Stake High Priest Quorum, in charge?

Is the Stake President, who superintended the change in the Wards of his Stake and who, likewise, still is a member of the Stake High Priest Quorum, in charge?

Is President Russell M. Nelson in charge?

Or is Someone Else in charge?

Just askin'!  

 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

I fear it will, and wow, I am over 60!  You make a good point, even the small callings of teaching, and other things will probably go away too, a younger people usually prefer younger teachers with whom they can relate. The more I think about, the more tired I feel about the future possibilities. 

Primary kids often like the older members to teach...they can be foster grandparents  more or less to the kids.  It depends a great deal on if the teacher is relaxed around them or gets flustered easy.  If the latter, the kids will be frustrated and feel bad about making the teacher upset and therefore will want to avoid class, but if the teacher has fun, I think the kids like having an older teacher as it makes it different from school among other things.

[mfbukowski]

On 4/8/2018 at 12:01 PM, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

So, today was the first meeting of the new, "Elder's Quorum". Our Stake President acted immediately, and called a new Elders Quorum President, in our Ward. He released everyone connected to the Leadership in both the High Priest Group, and the Elder's Quorum Presidency that was in place. The "roll out" was our Bishop reassuring the Elders that this was not going to be a takeover by the High Priests. The Relief Society and the Elders Quorum Presidents were told to put everyone in a large circle. We are a very large Ward, and their was no place for the size of the new Elder's Quorum to do so, and many Relief Society sisters just left the room because it was not doable. So we of the Priesthood were in the chapel, and it was just opened up for anyone to say how "they felt" things should be done. 

It turned into the High Priests giving their imput, only to have Elders trying to assert themselves, some were even saying how they knew this was going to happen, that the Lord revealed it to them months ago. Some want no more classes, they want to just openly talk about the families they feel need minstering. Oddly enough, we are having our Stake Conference next Sunday, which would have given time to explain, organize, and plan for changes that are to come. Instead, everyone was told to be sure to answer any phone calls from the Bishopric over the next two or three weeks to fill all of the new callings. Ther were people in the hallways who were angry, some near in tears, others who decided they would pick their plates up in a couple of weeks, as today was "linger longer", were we eat after Church once a month. 

I remained silent, and was silently praying for our new Elder's Quorum President, who looked like he wanted to make a run for it. For a very large Church, who handles change very well, be it new Presidents, new Apostles, new Bishops, new everything, this was the most awkward meeting, or Sunday in my 39 years as a member this very month. My wife was visibly upset all the way home from Church, and nothing really changed in Relief Society, except as she put it, a lot of upset sisters being told that they just need to take their husband visiting teaching now, just calling it by another name now. 

I just waited and quietly offered to help in any way I could, and got my wife home quickly. So, great day, how was yours everybody?   

Oh my gosh.

Who's in charge here? Sounds like mob rule..... almost

The only new callings are the EQ presidency, and there is no reason to include the whole ward.

 

[mfbukowski]

39 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I know you get this;  I know your husband gets this ... even though I only know one of you on line and not in real life, and the other of you I don't know at all, but to those who are unhappy, I would ask ...

Who's really in charge?

Is the (now-former) High Priest Group Leader in charge?

Is the Elders Quorum President in charge, and, if so, what is it that he is "in charge" of? A newly-expanded Elders Quorum?

Is the Bishop of the Ward, who still is a member of the Stake High Priest Quorum, in charge?

Is the Stake President, who superintended the change in the Wards of his Stake and who, likewise, still is a member of the Stake High Priest Quorum, in charge?

Is President Russell M. Nelson in charge?

Or is Someone Else in charge?

Just askin'!  

 

You beat me to it!

[Kenngo1969]

17 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

You beat me to it!

That's why I get the big money.  

MFB: "Wait ... you get paid to post here?"

Well, yeah, in a manner of speaking: I'm bored crapless at work right now, stuck on a very low-traffic assignment.  If they're going to make me sit in a chair tethered to a phone and staring at dual computer screens all day long, then I want to get slammed with calls.  They need to let a couple of people go so that I can get the level of volume that I'm happy with: I hate not getting calls (it's the only thing I hate more than getting them! )

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Oh my gosh.

Who's in charge here? Sounds like mob rule..... almost

The only new callings are the EQ presidency, and there is no reason to include the whole ward.

 

Agreed, it is why I was asking if it was the same elsewhere. The one moment I thought about speaking up, was when one of the Elders noted how happy he was the Elder's Quorum was taking notes. I had not noticed he was doing this, and I almost made that comment. But he looked so overwhelmed at that moment, I just could not, or did not want to have it seem I was making suggestions. Toward the last few mins, he noted that the Stake President had told him to use the Priesthood Handbook, to learn his duties. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Primary kids often like the older members to teach...they can be foster grandparents  more or less to the kids.  It depends a great deal on if the teacher is relaxed around them or gets flustered easy.  If the latter, the kids will be frustrated and feel bad about making the teacher upset and therefore will want to avoid class, but if the teacher has fun, I think the kids like having an older teacher as it makes it different from school among other things.

My wife has served at least 34 of our 39 years in Primary, and she loves it. All I have ever done is teach adult education for 25+ years nights at a local college, while being in Law-Enforcement by day. My former Bishop and best friend told me that in his retirement that he was doing substitute teaching at a couple of High Schools. I told him, "hey Tom, I could do that". His reply was swift, "no Bill, I don't think so, you do know you can't arrest them".  He was trying to make a polite joke out of it, but I got the message. All of my years of teaching in Church have always been adults. I guess it is an occupational hazard, 8 years Army, and 23 years in law--enforcement, does leave one with sharp edges, and sharp tongues.   

[Calm]

9 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

My wife has served at least 34 of our 39 years in Primary, and she loves it. All I have ever done is teach adult education for 25+ years nights at a local college, while being in Law-Enforcement by day. My former Bishop and best friend told me that in his retirement that he was doing substitute teaching at a couple of High Schools. I told him, "hey Tom, I could do that". His reply was swift, "no Bill, I don't think so, you do know you can't arrest them".  He was trying to make a polite joke out of it, but I got the message. All of my years of teaching in Church have always been adults. I guess it is an occupational hazard, 8 years Army, and 23 years in law--enforcement, does leave one with sharp edges, and sharp tongues.   

I am great teaching kids (so I have been told plus I love it most of the time), not so great with teens and adults.  It takes different gifts.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Calm said:

I am great teaching kids (so I have been told plus I love it most of the time), not so great with teens and adults.  It takes different gifts.

My wife has those gifts, and she loves it. The times my wife would ask me to come into her classes over the years to explain things, I would always do so. But I am 6'2", at at my fighting weight I was 225lb, deep voice...so every time I did so, no matter how softly I did it, they all said I frightened them, or was not nice like she was and is. You are so right, different gifts. For all but the last four years of my working life, I was paid to be an enforcer. Even the last four years working as a code enforcement official dealing with, big people and bigger attitudes. Church, here, and other venues give me (or gave me) the outlet to be more kind, and walk more softly. Well, now I am just an injured old man, not much good outside of home, I can't even ride my lawnmower without hurting my back, so I can't even work around my home.  

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Primary kids often like the older members to teach...they can be foster grandparents  more or less to the kids.  It depends a great deal on if the teacher is relaxed around them or gets flustered easy.  If the latter, the kids will be frustrated and feel bad about making the teacher upset and therefore will want to avoid class, but if the teacher has fun, I think the kids like having an older teacher as it makes it different from school among other things.

As a new married, I was petrified of getting a primary calling.  I was an only child and had no siblings and I did not even understand what it would be to have siblings much less actually speak to ...  CHILDREN??? 

My first calling in the church was as an adult gospel doctrine teacher to the "young marrieds" and I was less intimidated by that than the idea of a primary calling.

 I had no idea of how to relate to kids.  Now after 4 grown kids and grandchildren, I would LOVE to have that calling!

[mfbukowski]

59 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Agreed, it is why I was asking if it was the same elsewhere. The one moment I thought about speaking up, was when one of the Elders noted how happy he was the Elder's Quorum was taking notes. I had not noticed he was doing this, and I almost made that comment. But he looked so overwhelmed at that moment, I just could not, or did not want to have it seem I was making suggestions. Toward the last few mins, he noted that the Stake President had told him to use the Priesthood Handbook, to learn his duties. 

Holy cow

The High Councilor helping that ward should have been there supporting and training him

https://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church/stake-organization?lang=eng&_r=1#153

Quote

To assist them in overseeing the Melchizedek Priesthood, the stake presidency assigns a high councilor to represent them in each elders quorum, high priests group, ward, and branch in the stake. In this role, high councilors orient newly called high priests group leaderships and elders quorum presidencies. They also provide ongoing encouragement, support, and instruction for these leaders, including instruction based on chapters 1–7 of this handbook. They meet with these leaders regularly to learn of their needs, teach them their duties, and communicate information from the stake presidency. They periodically attend meetings of the elders quorum and high priests group, including elders quorum presidency meetings and high priests group leadership meetings. They also attend bishopric, priesthood executive committee, and ward council meetings if invited or assigned.

 

[Hamba Tuhan]

8 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Older HP will also be less likely to be serving in primary or young mens.

My dad spent the final 14 years of his life as the nursery leader. He loved it, and, more importantly, the kids loved him. An entire generation of kids in that ward called him 'Grandpa A-----'. He was only released when the cancer finally became so painful that he could no longer pick up a child, about seven months before he passed. I can't imagine a ward or branch that honestly doesn't have something for everyone to do. We usually only have the most important half of callings filled as it is.

Edited April 10, 2018 by Hamba Tuhan

[Hamba Tuhan]

35 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Holy cow

The High Councilor helping that ward should have been there supporting and training him

Exactly!

The Lord must look down on the self-imposed chaos of modern Israel sometimes and think, 'Take a deep breath ... at least they're not building a golden calf ... yet ...'

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

https://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church/stake-organization?lang=eng&_r=1#153

Our serpent of brass!

[bsjkki]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

Primary kids often like the older members to teach...they can be foster grandparents  more or less to the kids.  It depends a great deal on if the teacher is relaxed around them or gets flustered easy.  If the latter, the kids will be frustrated and feel bad about making the teacher upset and therefore will want to avoid class, but if the teacher has fun, I think the kids like having an older teacher as it makes it different from school among other things.

My girls had the best Primary teachers. They were 86 and 87. They were amazing. I love having older people in primary. Our ward just doesn't have very many left. Sad.

[Duncan]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

Holy cow

The High Councilor helping that ward should have been there supporting and training him

https://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church/stake-organization?lang=eng&_r=1#153

 

wow, literally none of that happens!!!!!!!!! hahahahahahhahhaha!

[mfbukowski]

49 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Our serpent of brass!

When all else fails, follow directions.