ttribe Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 13 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: To do that, I would have to know for a fact that the account was fictional — which I don’t. I was merely expressing that the story, for me, bears some of the characteristics of urban legends I’ve heard. To his credit, Amulek displayed greater understanding — and civility — than you. Edited to add: If the story had not been true, well, this wouldn’t have been the first time someone on this board gave a fictional account for rhetorical or other effect without identifying it as fiction. Have a nice day, Scott. 1
HappyJackWagon Posted March 30, 2018 Author Posted March 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Maestrophil said: If we could get an honest surgery, there are likely a lot of actions that active members take that would be surprising to us. We are all sinners after all. WOW seems like such a funny one to flake out on though, because it seems so simple to keep. Unless you truly get addicted to something, it appears to me people break the WOW simply because they want to partake. It seems like a blatant disobedience to me - mores than making a mistake or one time transgression. I'm guessing that a lot of people don't "flake out" on the WoW because it's so hard, or even because they are addicted. I think many recognize it as a church policy, and not a God-given commandment, so they don't worry too much about it. After all, if you don't believe that God commanded you not to do something, it really isn't rebellious or wicked to do that something.
Scott Lloyd Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 55 minutes ago, phaedrus ut said: I remember reading how coffee was served and and enjoyed by BYU students during the early 20th century. My Mormon grandparents grew up in that same generation can casually drank a glass of wine with dinner every night and had coffee every morning with breakfast. Their attitudes were the rule not the exception among Mormons in their area. Gramps had pictures of him and Willard Marriott drinking beer together in their youth. I always got the impression they felt like they were grandfathered into the old rules because they were around before the strict enforcement of the WoW began under Heber J. Grant. One think that has always had me wondering. It's often said in places like this that the Standard Works are the ultimate authority on LDS Doctrine because they are canonized. D&C 89 explicitly says it's not a commandment yet there is a policy that somehow supersedes this canonized revelation. Doesn't this actually put church policy above revelation in order of importance? Phaedrus Here is an instance of canonized revelation: Quote Thou shalt give heed unto all his [meaning the president of the Church] words and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them. ... For his word ye shall receive, as if from mine own mouth, in all patience and faith. (Doctrine and Covenants 88:70). 1
Maestrophil Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 27 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: I'm guessing that a lot of people don't "flake out" on the WoW because it's so hard, or even because they are addicted. I think many recognize it as a church policy, and not a God-given commandment, so they don't worry too much about it. After all, if you don't believe that God commanded you not to do something, it really isn't rebellious or wicked to do that something. So, it's a testimony issue? The prophets have said it is now a commandment, and based temple worthiness on it - so is rejection of that not rejection of the current church leadership?
smac97 Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 5 hours ago, jkwilliams said: By "problematic," I think you mean "delicious." There's an Italian restaurant in Provo that serves "Mormon Tiramisu" without the "problematic" ingredients. It's not bad. Which one?
jkwilliams Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 Just now, smac97 said: Which one? Gloria's Little Italy (or maybe it's La Dolce Vita). It's been a while. Both are good.
Jeanne Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 I so need to get out of Logan..I haven't been anywhere except a few places in the States..I envy you guys!
smac97 Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: Gloria's Little Italy (or maybe it's La Dolce Vita). It's been a while. Both are good. I've been to La Dolce Vita many times. Love their calzone. It's been a while for me too, though. Thanks, -Smac
HappyJackWagon Posted March 30, 2018 Author Posted March 30, 2018 3 hours ago, Maestrophil said: So, it's a testimony issue? The prophets have said it is now a commandment, and based temple worthiness on it - so is rejection of that not rejection of the current church leadership? Of course the revelation itself states it's not a commandment. I would suggest it has more to do with a lack of trust that leader's pronouncements of God's will are always accurate. People can still be members and appreciate a lot of things about the church and still recognize that leader's pronouncements of God's will aren't always spot on. Some things are church policies, not commandments.
Storm Rider Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 9 hours ago, jkwilliams said: Agreed. I've always been of the school that says we shouldn't have to be commanded in every little detail. I've known people who are way over the top on the letter of the law as far as the Word of Wisdom goes. What I find really odd is that some people who act as if coffee ice cream is poison will eat burgers and fries like they're going out of style. The way I read Section 89, it's about being wise and taking care of your body. Getting hung up on the particulars can distract people from that basic teaching. I do think there are some specific promises the Lord is offering us, but I don't see it being in a context of absolutes. I try to remember that it is given so that the weakest among us will not fall and we should all remember that - However, this has to do with health and not righteousness. If members have ever got way out over their skies on anything it is the WofW. Unfortunately, it may also be said that some leaders led them there too.
The Nehor Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 Other than wanting to get drunk a few times to numb myself I never really had a problem with the Word of Wisdom. Well, I do like the occasional Mountain Dew which I am told is basically crack cocaine. 1
jkwilliams Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Other than wanting to get drunk a few times to numb myself I never really had a problem with the Word of Wisdom. Well, I do like the occasional Mountain Dew which I am told is basically crack cocaine. I never was tempted not to keep the Word of Wisdom. About a year after I left the church, a coworker said, “Hey, if you’re not Mormon anymore, you can drink coffee!” Then she brought me a mocha.
The Nehor Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 Just now, jkwilliams said: I never was tempted not to keep the Word of Wisdom. About a year after I left the church, a coworker said, “Hey, if you’re not Mormon anymore, you can drink coffee!” Then she brought me a mocha. Coffee smells terrible. Plus I am a 95% water drinker.
jkwilliams Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 Just now, The Nehor said: Coffee smells terrible. Plus I am a 95% water drinker. Coffee is lovely.
ksfisher Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 52 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: Coffee is lovely. "Coffee may come with a cancer warning label in California" https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/30/health/coffee-cancer-court-decision-warning-label-california/index.html
jkwilliams Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 Just now, ksfisher said: "Coffee may come with a cancer warning label in California" https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/30/health/coffee-cancer-court-decision-warning-label-california/index.html Yeah, I saw that. It’s a risk I’ll just have to take.
Gray Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 2 hours ago, The Nehor said: Coffee smells terrible. Plus I am a 95% water drinker. Brewed coffee smells terrible. Dry ground coffee smells great!
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