jkwilliams Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said: Got to love these stories that go back decades. Barely remember what I was doing in 1984. It was my freshman year in high school and listened to Van Halen "1984" album. This might be the stupidest post I’ve read here, and I’ve been around for 15 years. 4
Popular Post jkwilliams Posted March 23, 2018 Popular Post Posted March 23, 2018 1 minute ago, carbon dioxide said: I would not forget and I would not wait decades to get off my butt to seek justice. I stand corrected. Even stupider. 9
juliann Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 38 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: I think that is well beyond creepy. And to think just yesterday people were calling the victim crazy and/or evil for manipulating a helpless old man. It sounds like a horror movie. I can't even imagine the trust she must have had in him to go there after he had shown such sympathy and care about her abusive upbringing. She gave the classic story, he made her feel so special, gave her attention no one else got..... I've been very skeptical of his claims to have fought for counseling for sister missionaries. It didn't fit, although the part about him having to valiantly fight Elder Asay was a nice touch. But no man doing this is going to want to see his victims put in a room alone with a therapist. 17 minutes ago, Duncan said: I think Elder Joe J. Christensen was the MTC Pres. prior to this fellow, and I can't imagine him having a bed in a basement, so maybe it was a new thing? It certainly wouldn't have been difficult for someone with enough latitude to abuse these young women to get a bed down there. It was said that it was known a room was there but not a bed so it would seem he did. My next question is when this room was turned into something to be used at all. 3
Popular Post juliann Posted March 23, 2018 Popular Post Posted March 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said: I would not forget and I would not wait decades to get off my butt to seek justice. She didn't wait decades. And you sit on your butt and try to prevent justice now, apparently. 7
SeekingUnderstanding Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said: I would not forget and I would not wait decades to get off my butt to seek justice. Wow. Just wow. https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5a0724e5e4b0cc46c52e6ae6 1
Tacenda Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said: Wow. Just wow. https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5a0724e5e4b0cc46c52e6ae6 Good article, and so much in line with what happened to the woman when she accused Bishop!
Robert F. Smith Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Tacenda said: http://kutv.com/news/local/former-employee-confirms-odd-mtc-room-with-bed-and-tv I guess the woman wasn't lying about the room with a bed/vcr/t.v. afterall. Also, there's another story out there that has come to life of two brothers who went to Pres. Tingey about a relative that sexually abused the one brother and groomed the other, back in 1994, I believe. They told Tingey because they'd heard their relative was about ready to serve as a Mission President. The brothers thought the church might want to know what their relative did to them and this relative lived next door to Pres. Monson. Mormonstories had it live on FB, but will soon be put up as a podcast. Turns out the brothers had another relative say it happened to him as well. Pres. Tingey said he would get back with the brothers and never did. And the relative went on to serve as a Mission President and after that in a stake presidency. I'm just sick of the excuses out there that the church doesn't know about these things, and doesn't cover for these abusers. Sick of it. I never thought the LDS church would do what the Catholic church did to cover-up for priests or move them to another parrish. ETA: JK beat me by a hair! And your evidence that the LDS Church has a policy (or had a policy) to systematically cover up these types of crimes is what? Rumor and hearsay? The way we know of the Roman Catholic cover ups is that we have names, dates, places, and proof of cardinals and archbishops actively covering up abuse crimes and protecting the abusers. In all instances in which I have knowledge of the LDS Brethren finding out about these violations, they are merciless in swiftly excommunicating the perpetrators. Perhaps you have actual cases where they ignored the evidence. Not just rumor, but real evidence. The cases where the LDS Church has had to pay large judgments are those in which local leaders actually engaged in abuse and lawyers were hired by the victims. Then it becomes a matter of whether the Church HQ exercised due diligence in dealing with and preventing such problems. The LDS Church has learned some hard lessons on this in recent decades, but I know of no evidence that the Brethren ignore these matters. 4
blueglass Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, juliann said: She didn't wait decades. And you sit on your butt and try to prevent justice now, apparently. Think of the courage by the girls from the 5 browns (Desirae, Deondra, and Melody Brown) to come forward after 2 decades touring/traveling with their mormon abuser father+manager. They were giving firesides at so many LDS chapels over the years. I still remember when they visited our stake and gave a fireside with that creep. http://archive.sltrib.com/article.phpid=52502384&itype=CMSID From the survey they conducted in 2007, an astounding 1/3 women responded that they were sexually assaulted in some way during their lifetime. 1/10 reported to authorities. Absolutely devastating the stats are that high in Utah. Edited March 23, 2018 by blueglass 3
Tacenda Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 8 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: And your evidence that the LDS Church has a policy (or had a policy) to systematically cover up these types of crimes is what? Rumor and hearsay? The way we know of the Roman Catholic cover ups is that we have names, dates, places, and proof of cardinals and archbishops actively covering up abuse crimes and protecting the abusers. In all instances in which I have knowledge of the LDS Brethren finding out about these violations, they are merciless in swiftly excommunicating the perpetrators. Perhaps you have actual cases where they ignored the evidence. Not just rumor, but real evidence. The cases where the LDS Church has had to pay large judgments are those in which local leaders actually engaged in abuse and lawyers were hired by the victims. Then it becomes a matter of whether the Church HQ exercised due diligence in dealing with and preventing such problems. The LDS Church has learned some hard lessons on this in recent decades, but I know of no evidence that the Brethren ignore these matters. Did I say the church had a policy? No! I'll word it better, leaders in the church. And instead of cover-up, do you have a better word for what happened to these brothers. Maybe a blatent sweeping under the rug?
Tacenda Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 30 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said: I would not forget and I would not wait decades to get off my butt to seek justice. She went to her single's ward bishop after she came home from her mission, decades huh?
jkwilliams Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Tacenda said: She went to her single's ward bishop after she came home from her mission, decades huh? Don’t muddy the waters with facts. 2
The Nehor Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 (edited) 45 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said: Got to love these stories that go back decades. Barely remember what I was doing in 1984. It was my freshman year in high school and listened to Van Halen "1984" album. It is always amazing to find how suing for some money this many years later eases the pain. Must be getting close to retirement age and needs enough to make it through ok. And nobody say it is not about the money because in almost every case none of the people who make money off these lawsuits donate the proceeds to charity. I was around 5 and I remember quite a bit of what I did. Edited March 23, 2018 by The Nehor
The Nehor Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 38 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said: I would not forget and I would not wait decades to get off my butt to seek justice. Good for you tough guy!
Storm Rider Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 The attacking one another here is a nice touch for LDS; I have my popcorn out. Please continue....this only gets better. The surprise for me is that so many of you appear to be experts in this field having tons of evidence; that you have first had knowledge; and can condemn anyone because you are so enlightened. I have a suggestion for you - how about stop talking and allow this woman to proceed with her lawsuit and wait and see what happens. Who knows, maybe we can burn Bishop at a stake and everyone can bring popcorn and watch the evil man burn to dust. Oh happy day.
Popular Post jkwilliams Posted March 23, 2018 Popular Post Posted March 23, 2018 I’m so tired of people glibly dismissing what abuse victims suffer. I live with an abuse survivor. I can’t count how many times I’ve had to wake her in the middle of the night because she is screaming in her sleep. I think of the PTSD flashbacks, the times when she is so afraid or depressed she can’t leave the bedroom. Or the times it’s been so bad she has been admitted to the hospital. You know what? She never went to the police or a bishop. She didn’t tell me until her abuser molested another family member not long after we were married. I’m not sure she understands why she never reported him. I know I don’t. So, you folks who think people like her are at fault for not getting off her butt can go straight to hell. 16
Popular Post The Nehor Posted March 23, 2018 Popular Post Posted March 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, Storm Rider said: The attacking one another here is a nice touch for LDS; I have my popcorn out. Please continue....this only gets better. The surprise for me is that so many of you appear to be experts in this field having tons of evidence; that you have first had knowledge; and can condemn anyone because you are so enlightened. I have a suggestion for you - how about stop talking and allow this woman to proceed with her lawsuit and wait and see what happens. Who knows, maybe we can burn Bishop at a stake and everyone can bring popcorn and watch the evil man burn to dust. Oh happy day. I decided to run a test to analyze your post: Seriously you give this guy the benefit of every doubt while insinuating she is crazy the whole time and now you want to pretend you are the voice of reason? 9
Tacenda Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 9 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: I’m so tired of people glibly dismissing what abuse victims suffer. I live with an abuse survivor. I can’t count how many times I’ve had to wake her in the middle of the night because she is screaming in her sleep. I think of the PTSD flashbacks, the times when she is so afraid or depressed she can’t leave the bedroom. Or the times it’s been so bad she has been admitted to the hospital. You know what? She never went to the police or a bishop. She didn’t tell me until her abuser molested another family member not long after we were married. I’m not sure she understands why she never reported him. I know I don’t. So, you folks who think people like her are at fault for not getting off her butt can go straight to hell. I'm sorry to hear about this, I've never had to live with something as difficult as sexual abuse, just a small case that still affects me today, so I've no idea what life would be like if it had been a full blown incident. My sister-in -law once told me her own father sexually abused her, but she never went to the police either. Not a lot do, and Utah is higher than the national average of sexual abuse. So one can imagine what the significance it might be if more women reported in Utah, how much higher it would be. http://www.health.utah.gov/vipp/topics/rape-sexual-assault/ "One in three women will experience some form of sexual violence in their lifetime. Rape is the only violent crime in Utah that occurs at a higher rate than the rest of the nation. Studies show that one in eight Utah women will be raped and one in 50 Utah men will be raped in their lifetimes (1). According to Uniform Crime Reports, the rape rate in Utah has been consistently higher than the U.S. rate. In 2014, Utah's reported rape rate was significantly higher than the U.S. rate (67.7 and 51.9 per 100,000 females) (2). However, the majority of rapes (88.2%) are never reported to law enforcement, indicating that sexual violence in Utah is grossly underestimated (2,3)."
Exiled Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 I've witnessed first hand cover-ups of sexual abuse in the church. The old deseret gym and the pedophiles that used to roam around there come to mind as well as other cases. It's about time the entire truth comes out and keeps coming out until this ends 3
blueglass Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 21 minutes ago, Tacenda said: According to Uniform Crime Reports, the rape rate in Utah has been consistently higher than the U.S. rate. In 2014, Utah's reported rape rate was significantly higher than the U.S. rate (67.7 and 51.9 per 100,000 females) (2). However, the majority of rapes (88.2%) are never reported to law enforcement, indicating that sexual violence in Utah is grossly underestimated (2,3)." In the referenced paper it says "Rape is the only violent crime in Utah that is [30%] higher than the national average In a state where other violent crimes, such as homicide, robbery, or aggravated assault, is historically half to three times lower than the national average, this is of concern." Does anyone have a theory on why Utah ranks 30% higher than national average ?
SamuelTheLamanite Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, jkwilliams said: And to think just yesterday people were calling the victim crazy and/or evil for manipulating a helpless old man. Because fabrications do happen. In a conservative magazine Jason Richwine makes the case that false accusations may be more common than we think https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/how-common-are-false-rape-charges-really-jason-richwine/ But I am not taking a side. I will let the authorities decide if Bishop is guilty or not. 2 hours ago, juliann said: That is beyond creepy. Oh my gosh. A "second office" with a bed beyond more than one locked door. Kudos to this man for speaking up..... and for those who are still trying to make an issue of women who don't speak up immediately....notice this guy didn't want his name used. Many reasons https://ocrsm.umd.edu/files/Why-Is-Sexual-Assault-Under-Reported.pdf 2 hours ago, Tacenda said: I'm just sick of the excuses out there that the church doesn't know about these things, and doesn't cover for these abusers. Sick of it. I never thought the LDS church would do what the Catholic church did to cover-up for priests or move them to another parrish. ETA: JK beat me by a hair! The church doesn't tolerate sexual abuse Edited March 23, 2018 by SamuelTheLamanite
The Nehor Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, blueglass said: In the referenced paper it says "Rape is the only violent crime in Utah that is [30%] higher than the national average In a state where other violent crimes, such as homicide, robbery, or aggravated assault, is historically half to three times lower than the national average, this is of concern." Does anyone have a theory on why Utah ranks 30% higher than national average ? More are reported in Utah and the real numbers are like other states? Mountain air make you predatory? Mormons are depraved rapists? Ex-Mormons are depraved rapists? Being around Mormons makes one a depraved rapist? Consumption of Green Jello salad with shredded carrots disables the inhibitions in the brain? High possession rate and those unclean spirits are responsible? Do you have an idea?
The Nehor Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 1 minute ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: Because fabrications do happen. In a conservative magazine Jason Richwine makes the case that false accusations may be more common than we think https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/how-common-are-false-rape-charges-really-jason-richwine/ Oh, the National Review? This should be good........ 1
blueglass Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, The Nehor said: More are reported in Utah and the real numbers are like other states? Mountain air make you predatory? Mormons are depraved rapists? Ex-Mormons are depraved rapists? Being around Mormons makes one a depraved rapist? Consumption of Green Jello salad with shredded carrots disables the inhibitions in the brain? High possession rate and those unclean spirits are responsible? Do you have an idea? No I don't have a theory. from this more recent chart Alaska is crazy high by far, with North Carolina, Connecticut the lowest at 1/2 that of Utah. https://www.statista.com/statistics/232563/forcible-rape-rate-in-the-us-by-state/#0
SamuelTheLamanite Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Oh, the National Review? This should be good........ Do you dismiss everything in the National Review? The National Review has another article The Comprehensive Case against Roy Moore
Exiled Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 34 minutes ago, blueglass said: In the referenced paper it says "Rape is the only violent crime in Utah that is [30%] higher than the national average In a state where other violent crimes, such as homicide, robbery, or aggravated assault, is historically half to three times lower than the national average, this is of concern." Does anyone have a theory on why Utah ranks 30% higher than national average ? I would say the obsession with sex prohibition might be a factor. When I was a youth, sex was a topic or mentioned each and every week. Maybe it is too much of a focus?
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