Patriarchal Blessings: Are You Ready?

[Duncan]

I think I need more patience and faith!

[Jeanne]

17 hours ago, Rain said:

 

You can. Talk with your Heavenly Father about the choices you need to make.

I know this is going to sound odd, but consider reading your blessing. Even though you no longer believe in the church, you still believe in God and there may have been things that He inspired the man who have you the blessing to tell you. Maybe it will mean nothing to you, but if you are struggling with decisions then you never know what might help. 

Good ideas...I have read my patriarchal blessing many times..much of it has to do with marriage and that part of life...I want you to know that though I am no longer a member..I do ask my Father in Heaven to help me..and talk to him daily.   Thanks so much.  An interesting take on my blessing that I will share.  I went to the Patriarch with my husband to be..and was engaged to be married...so we went together.  In my blessing, it said that I would know the man I was to marry when I saw him.  This touched me deeply...in any case, that winter, my fiance stepped out on me and I ended a 3 year relationship...how happy I am now that I saw the man I was to marry..in a hallway with steam set curlers on..(for heaven's sakes) because I locked myself out of my room...I am not detached from those things that are meant to be.    Though my Valentine has been gone 20 years...we will celebrate 40 year anniversary this Sunday.  In my late life, I pray that He will help me make good decisions...retirement, health and a good purpose to these later years with grown children.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Jeanne

[Stargazer]

On 2/13/2018 at 10:46 AM, Rain said:

You can also receive personal revelation through reading your patriarchal blessing.  There is a reason why we are asked to read it over throughout our lives.  It's because when reading it we can receive that revelation that comes from a phrase or word etc that was in our blessing.

Yes, and then there is the problem of reading it again rather later in life and realizing that one has not fulfilled properly what should have been done.  

I'm not presenting this as an objection, but as a suggestion to all of us who have patriarchal blessings, that you really should re-read it occasionally and ponder what to do in order to keep oneself in line with that blessing. There are a couple of particulars in my PB that I see that I have not taken sufficient care to fulfill over the years.

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 hour ago, Jeanne said:

Though my Valentine has been gone 20 years...we will celebrate 40 year anniversary this Sunday. 

Happy anniversary, Jeanne!

[Jeanne]

10 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Happy anniversary, Jeanne!

Thanks....we get along so well!!

[Hamba Tuhan]

39 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Thanks....we get along so well!!

I hope it's OK that my heart broke just a little bit when I thought of your 20-year separation ...

[Alaris]

On 2/14/2018 at 9:33 AM, bluebell said:

Obviously even Elijah needed to repent sometimes. 

This isn't the only LDS forum where users cite Elijah as an excuse to mock others. Mocking is actually a topic in the Topical Guide. See also persecution, profanity. Mocking is clearly contrary to the basic gospel of Jesus Christ, do unto others, etc. It's also basic mormonism 101 to know there is only one large and spacious building and that's where the mockers and those shamed by mockers go. Now if some priests of baal show up and start cutting themselves, maybe...  maybe you've got clearance for mocking. Methinks bluebell is correct and this was cause for repentance. Jesus did not mock. Can you imagine? 

On to the topic of the OP. I had 1 son a little over 4 years ago in my mid thirties where my PB promised sons and daughters. I now have sons and daughters through remarriage. My PB warned me of my first wife. 

What a special and wonderful experience receiving my blessing was at 19. I was not ready for it at 18. I've already shared some pearls here publicly, but I totally understand a Bishops desire to ensure the recipient isnt a swine to his own pearls! 

Edited February 16, 2018 by Alaris

[Kenngo1969]

My patriarchal blessing is a bit too ... cryptic ... for me in spots.  

That said, I got it when I was quite young, at the ripe old age of 11.  Lo and behold, the very next month began the nearly-four-year medical odyssey I have discussed previously at length here involving two failed surgical operations followed by three successful ones.

I found the counsel in my blessing very useful during this period ... for what it's worth.   

[Stargazer]

On 2/13/2018 at 10:46 AM, Rain said:

You can also receive personal revelation through reading your patriarchal blessing.  There is a reason why we are asked to read it over throughout our lives.  It's because when reading it we can receive that revelation that comes from a phrase or word etc that was in our blessing.

This actually happened to me, though not while I was reading it.  It was because I had read something in my blessing, and that caused me to seek further guidance on the subject. And after some effort importuning the Lord I got that guidance. 

[bluebell]

11 hours ago, Alaris said:

This isn't the only LDS forum where users cite Elijah as an excuse to mock others. Mocking is actually a topic in the Topical Guide. See also persecution, profanity. Mocking is clearly contrary to the basic gospel of Jesus Christ, do unto others, etc. It's also basic mormonism 101 to know there is only one large and spacious building and that's where the mockers and those shamed by mockers go. Now if some priests of baal show up and start cutting themselves, maybe...  maybe you've got clearance for mocking. Methinks bluebell is correct and this was cause for repentance. Jesus did not mock. Can you imagine? 

On to the topic of the OP. I had 1 son a little over 4 years ago in my mid thirties where my PB promised sons and daughters. I now have sons and daughters through remarriage. My PB warned me of my first wife. 

What a special and wonderful experience receiving my blessing was at 19. I was not ready for it at 18. I've already shared some pearls here publicly, but I totally understand a Bishops desire to ensure the recipient isnt a swine to his own pearls! 

I don't doubt your accusations against someone members who believe that mocking others is o.k. (mocking is a sin that is common to all of us), but hopefully you are aware that Five Solas (who used Elijah as an example of how mocking is sometimes acceptable) isn't LDS.  He's Evangelical.  

[Five Solas]

On 2/15/2018 at 8:27 PM, Alaris said:

Methinks bluebell is correct and this was cause for repentance. Jesus did not mock. Can you imagine?

Only here have I ever heard anyone suggest Elijah needed to repent for his words as recorded in 1 Kings 18.  I think a lot of people, serious Christians and Jews alike would be slack-jawed by what bluebell wrote.  But hey, maybe if her idea were publicized broadly it would cause them to reevaluate and then favorably consider the LDS Church with its advantage of latter-day prophets over Scripture, etc.

Or maybe not so much.

;0)

Regarding that last part, you don't seem terribly familiar with your New Testament, Alaris.  Consider Matthew 12:34 where he calls the Pharisees in attendance a "brood of vipers" and asks, rhetorically, "how can you speak good, when you are evil?"  If I called you a snake, you probably won't think it very funny, will you?  You'd probably feel an inclination to punch me in the mouth.  Or John 8:44, wherein Jesus tells his hearers their father is the devil.  Can you imagine their reaction?  You'd definitely feel justified to land a punch if I said/implied your mother shagged the devil.  I'd feel the same if the roles were reversed.   

Jesus kinda puts Elijah & his words in the shade, doesn't he? 

--Erik 

[Alaris]

3 hours ago, Five Solas said:

Only here have I ever heard anyone suggest Elijah needed to repent for his words as recorded in 1 Kings 18.  I think a lot of people, serious Christians and Jews alike would be slack-jawed by what bluebell wrote.  But hey, maybe if her idea were publicized broadly it would cause them to reevaluate and then favorably consider the LDS Church with its advantage of latter-day prophets over Scripture, etc.

Or maybe not so much.

;0)

Regarding that last part, you don't seem terribly familiar with your New Testament, Alaris.  Consider Matthew 12:34 where he calls the Pharisees in attendance a "brood of vipers" and asks, rhetorically, "how can you speak good, when you are evil?"  If I called you a snake, you probably won't think it very funny, will you?  You'd probably feel an inclination to punch me in the mouth.  Or John 8:44, wherein Jesus tells his hearers their father is the devil.  Can you imagine their reaction?  You'd definitely feel justified to land a punch if I said/implied your mother shagged the devil.  I'd feel the same if the roles were reversed.   

Jesus kinda puts Elijah & his words in the shade, doesn't he? 

--Erik 

Condemnation from the ultimate Master and Judge is not mocking.

And this is very much selective obedience. The Lord didn't teach us to love our neighbor as ourselves, the two great commandments, turn the other cheek, do unto others, etc. etc. so we could selectively obey those and then turn around and mock and condemn others as you see fit by citing the examples of Elijah and of the Lord - the Master and ultimate Judge. He didn't lay down the example for us when He pronounced the woes on the pharisees - these are woes only He can pronounce Himself or by those who He chooses as His mouthpiece. Do you really think He wants us to mock and condemn others?

Again, Elijah mocked priests of Baal who were cutting themselves. This is a poor excuse for mocking people from a religious standpoint. From a debate standpoint, mocking is weakness as it is a crutch for those who can't make their points without it. From an, "I'm hiding behind the safety of anonymity on the Internets" standpoint, it's even weaker.

Of course you are on an LDS forum, and apparently you are not LDS, so are you looking to teach, to learn, or to mock / condemn?

 

 

Edited February 18, 2018 by Alaris

[carbon dioxide]

I never had had a big desire for a PB but perhaps I will get one when I turn 50.  That is only a couple of years away. 

[Five Solas]

12 hours ago, Alaris said:

Condemnation from the ultimate Master and Judge is not mocking.

And this is very much selective obedience. The Lord didn't teach us to love our neighbor as ourselves, the two great commandments, turn the other cheek, do unto others, etc. etc. so we could selectively obey those and then turn around and mock and condemn others as you see fit by citing the examples of Elijah and of the Lord - the Master and ultimate Judge. He didn't lay down the example for us when He pronounced the woes on the pharisees - these are woes only He can pronounce Himself or by those who He chooses as His mouthpiece. Do you really think He wants us to mock and condemn others?

Again, Elijah mocked priests of Baal who were cutting themselves. This is a poor excuse for mocking people from a religious standpoint. From a debate standpoint, mocking is weakness as it is a crutch for those who can't make their points without it. From an, "I'm hiding behind the safety of anonymity on the Internets" standpoint, it's even weaker.

Of course you are on an LDS forum, and apparently you are not LDS, so are you looking to teach, to learn, or to mock / condemn?

We've rabbit-trailed a fair bit & at this point we appear to have lost sight of the original idea/argument.  If LDS wish to put themselves on record condemning Elijah's conduct as recorded in 1 Kings 18, so be it.  And the broader question of what it means to show respect from a biblical perspective undoubtedly deserves a thread of its own, time permitting. 

Regarding your last question, I'm here to learn first & foremost.  Learn how to continue to relate to the religion & culture that many in my extended family passionately subscribe to.  Learn how to argue and persuade when I think I have a better idea.  There is much to learn and it's ever-evolving, so once you start you can never really stop.

:0)

--Erik

_________________________________________

Mama, put my guns in the ground
I can't shoot them anymore.
That long black cloud is comin' down
I feel I'm knockin' on heaven's door

--Bob Dylan, 1973

[bluebell]

17 hours ago, Five Solas said:

Only here have I ever heard anyone suggest Elijah needed to repent for his words as recorded in 1 Kings 18.  I think a lot of people, serious Christians and Jews alike would be slack-jawed by what bluebell wrote. 

Yes, I have said some truly controversial things.  I dared to state that prophets in the bible are not perfect and sometimes needed to repent.  And I also implied that Jesus, who taught that loving our fellow man as we love ourselves is the second greatest commandment, doesn't condone making fun of someone in a cruel or derisive manner.   

 

[Scott Lloyd]

49 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Yes, I have said some truly controversial things.  I dared to state that prophets in the bible are not perfect and sometimes needed to repent.  And I also implied that Jesus, who taught that loving our fellow man as we love ourselves is the second greatest commandment, doesn't condone making fun of someone in a cruel or derisive manner.   

 

This post has a sarcastic tone. Would you include it in the category of being cruel and derisive? Or would you say that some sarcasm doesn’t rise (or, if you will, descend) to that level?

[Jeanne]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

Yes, I have said some truly controversial things.  I dared to state that prophets in the bible are not perfect and sometimes needed to repent.  And I also implied that Jesus, who taught that loving our fellow man as we love ourselves is the second greatest commandment, doesn't condone making fun of someone in a cruel or derisive manner.   

 

Whether I  agree or not...I always love Bluebell's true honesty...and that she is true  to herself.

[bluebell]

4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

This post has a sarcastic tone. Would you include it in the category of being cruel and derisive? Or would you say that some sarcasm doesn’t rise (or, if you will, descend) to that level?

I apologize if my tone was sarcastic,  I was aiming for irony.  And no, i doubt believe that all sarcasm is a form of mocking.  It certainly can be though.

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

I apologize if my tone was sarcastic,  I was aiming for irony.  And no, i doubt believe that all sarcasm is a form of mocking.  It certainly can be though.

I see nothing wrong with your tone, nor do I object to it.

I do detect a fine and subjective line between sarcasm and mere irony. The former is a form of the latter. Each is a tool of rhetoric. Neither is inherently bad. 

To the matter at hand, I see nothing in Elijah’s interaction with the priests of Baal that warrants repentance. 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[bluebell]

13 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I see nothing wrong with your tone, nor do I object to it.

I do detect a fine and subjective line between sarcasm and mere irony. The former is a form of the latter. Each is a form of rhetoric. Neither is inherently bad. 

To the matter at hand, I see nothing in Elijah’s interaction with the priests of Baal that warrants repentance. 

Do you believe he was mocking their sincere religious beliefs?

[Scott Lloyd]

12 hours ago, bluebell said:

Do you believe he was mocking their sincere religious beliefs?

Yes. In this instance I see nothing wrong with doing that, as their “sincere religious belief” was (if you believe the scriptural account) an abomination to the Lord God. He was acting as the Lord’s agent, and, combined with the rest of the scenario, the demonstration involving the sacrifice, the fire from heaven, etc., Elijah’s action was intended to impress upon the people’s minds truth vs. error. 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[bluebell]

54 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Yes. In this instance I see nothing wrong with doing that, as their “sincere religious belief” was (if you believe the scriptural account) an abomination to the Lord God, he was acting a the Lord’s agent, and, combined with the rest of the scenario, the demonstration involving the sacrifice, the fire from heaven, etc., was intended to impress upon the peoples’ minds truth vs. error. 

Do you believe that it’s ok for someone to mock lds beliefs as long as that person sincerely believes lds beliefs are an abomination and they are doing God’s will by mocking them?

[Scott Lloyd]

17 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Do you believe that it’s ok for someone to mock lds beliefs as long as that person sincerely believes lds beliefs are an abomination and they are doing God’s will by mocking them?

No. Obviously, they would be mocking that which is sacred and true. They would be wrong to do so. 

And please, let’s not get into the “your truth” vs. “my truth” trope. I’ve already made my position clear on that. There is only the truth and opinion. 

Perhaps I could pose this question: White supremacy is quite widely denounced these days. Is it wrong, as a rhetorical tool, to use sarcasm or mockery to combat or argue against it? After all, those who hold with it seem pretty sincere in their bigotry. 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[bluebell]

13 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

No. Obviously, they would be mocking that which is sacred and true. They would be wrong to do so. 

And please, let’s not get into the “your truth” vs. “my truth” trope. I’ve already made my position clear on that. There is only the truth and opinion. 

Perhaps I could pose this question: White supremacy is quite widely denounced these days. Is it wrong, as a rhetorical tool, to use sarcasm or mockery to combat or argue against it? After all, those who hold with it seem pretty sincere in their bigotry. 

I don't think it's possible to discuss this issue without getting into the 'your truth' vs. 'my truth' aspect because if someone sincerely believes they have the truth, it's irrational for us to expect them to behave as if they don't and we do.  

So, from an Evangelical perspective, it's completely unreasonable and irrational for an LDS person to say that it's not o.k. for them to mock us, but it is o.k. for us to mock them because we have the truth and they don't.  

Besides that aspect, I don't believe that Christ--who said we are sinning if we don't love our enemies, love others as we love ourselves, turn the other cheek, aren't full of His love, and try to dig a pit for our neighbor--finds mocking ever acceptable.  Christ was sometimes harsh, but He never mocked anyone.  Mocking seems more like satan's style than Christ's.

To answer your question, no, I don't believe that mocking white supremacy groups is condoned by Christ.  

[Alaris]

On 2/18/2018 at 10:54 AM, Five Solas said:

We've rabbit-trailed a fair bit & at this point we appear to have lost sight of the original idea/argument.  If LDS wish to put themselves on record condemning Elijah's conduct as recorded in 1 Kings 18, so be it.  And the broader question of what it means to show respect from a biblical perspective undoubtedly deserves a thread of its own, time permitting. 

Regarding your last question, I'm here to learn first & foremost.  Learn how to continue to relate to the religion & culture that many in my extended family passionately subscribe to.  Learn how to argue and persuade when I think I have a better idea.  There is much to learn and it's ever-evolving, so once you start you can never really stop.

:0)

--Erik

_________________________________________

Mama, put my guns in the ground
I can't shoot them anymore.
That long black cloud is comin' down
I feel I'm knockin' on heaven's door

--Bob Dylan, 1973

 

In case nobody here has extended the invitation to you, I'd like to do so now. I invite you to spend ~ 20 minutes reading the Book of Mormon and encourage you to begin with a humble prayer. Ask God to help you see whether this material is true. Read, ponder, and listen. Then pray and ask God in the name of Jesus Christ whether the Book of Mormon is true. ~ 20 minutes is all it takes.

Moroni - the last prophet in the Book of Mormon - closed the book with this promise:

 

Moroni 10:3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may knowthe truth of all things.

I followed this promise when I was 18 as I needed to know for myself whether the Book of Mormon is true. When I prayed, I knew it to the core of my soul that the Book of Mormon is true--what an immense and beautiful feeling! I spent 2 years doing my darndest to convince others to spend ~ 20 minutes and sincerely ask God if the Book of Mormon is true. You'd think it would be easy - look and live! Though it wasn't as easy as I would have liked, I was blessed to see well over 30 people follow the promise - every time - every single time they did, they received an answer. I didn't even have to ask on the follow up visit. I could just see it in their eyes. They knew. And we saw eye to eye. Of course not every person who received an answer was baptized, but many were. The Lord allows those who know to be tested to see if they have what it takes to withstand the fire. 

So, if you're comfortable where you are in life perhaps this isn't the time. However, if you're willing to be unconformable to know God - if you're willing to forsake family to know God - then I challenge you to look and live brother

 

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm?lang=eng

 

 

Edited February 22, 2018 by Alaris
Adding the link to the Book of Mormon