Patriarchal Blessings: Are You Ready?

[Stargazer]

On 2/22/2018 at 5:42 PM, rongo said:

1) Not everyone believes that God's omniscience is absolute. I don't. That means that God may not know people 100% will go inactive.

I used to believe this. Now I don't.  

Something happened to me some time back when I suddenly realized that God dwells outside this universe, and outside our time-line. I don't mean in another universe, but in a place of reality from which this universe is an open and shut book, where everything is done and final. Imagine, if you will, that you have placed a piece of paper upon your desk. Upon it there is drawn a line that meanders from one end to the other.  The line drawing is complete, but it has a begin and an end.  Every point along the line represents a free-will decision that is made by the drawer. The drawer did not know in advance the path it would take, but you, observing from outside, see all of it and every decision that was made.   

It isn't that God knows in advance what will happen -- it is that He sees everything that has happened, and He saw it all in the instant the universe was created. To Him it is a done deal, from beginning to end.  You will not come to the end of your life and be able to gleefully shout to God "Surprise! You didn't think I would make it, but I have!"

As a computer programmer I used to worry about the amount of data storage space required to keep track of everything that has happened in this universe -- it seemed to me that God's database needed to be implacably enormous, and in fact impossibly large.  For a brief time it was a sticking point in my faith -- how could one possibly store all the data necessary to know not only the universe at any given point in time, but to know the universe at every given point in time!  It seemed that this database would need to be larger than the universe.  And then the breakthrough came: the universe is in itself its own database. God, or indeed, any being given access to His universe from His point of view, can very leisurely reference every place, at every time, in it.  Because from that place of reference, it is all laid out from beginning to end.  And so are all the interventions, such as your Patriarchal Blessing, answers to prayers, and impressions from the Spirit of the Lord.

I know some will say that because God knows what your decisions are, when you yourself do not, means that there is no free agency.  Which is silly.  Sitting where you sit, of course you don't know the outcome, because for you the outcome has not yet occurred.  You see through the glass, darkly, as Paul aptly put it, and the future has not yet happened, for you.  You have not yet made the decisions in response to the stimuli which have not yet occurred for you.  Just because God knows what will come and what you will decide does not mean that you do not still need to experience the events and make your decisions in response.  Because despite the foreknowledge of God, you still need to make your decision. 

You have the freedom to do that which will invalidate your Patriarchal Blessing.  But your blessing still needs to be revealed to you, because you must make your decision of your own free will and choice. God knows what that decision will be, but until you are given the choice, it hasn't happened.  

One final thing -- would God have sent us into this life, where he knew we would sin and except for Christ's Atonement be locked out, unless He absolutely knew that Jesus would go through with it, and suffer what he did not deserve to suffer, and thus have the power to draw all who would repent after him?  Would God have sent us into the world where there was any shadow of doubt that Jesus would succeed, in both being fully sinless and faithfully enduring the Atonement?  I say NO.  Because His love for us is perfect, it must be clear that God could not have sent us without knowing from the beginning that Jesus would succeed.  He was 100% certain that Jesus would succeed and become the Christ - there could have been no element of doubt.

Nor is there any element of doubt in God's mind whether you will succeed or fail.  He knows it already.  But you do not; and neither will you until you do.  Because you are in Time, whereas He is outside it.

On 2/22/2018 at 5:42 PM, rongo said:

2) They are a guide, and often lay out blessings and warnings, depending on counsel and obedience. In other words, they lay out possibilities and guidance with those possibilities, but the blessings and warnings (consequences) are subject to obedience/disobedience.

Absolutely correct and true.  Which does not preclude the absolute foreknowledge of God.

[Stargazer]

On 2/23/2018 at 6:46 AM, Five Solas said:

No, I don't recall anyone here ever has "extended the invitation," Alaris.  Congratulations, I suppose, on being the first.  Perhaps it's because I've been very transparent along the way.  Or perhaps it's because uncertain folks google "Five Solas"--and after that they assume it's Game Over.  Not that they'd be wrong...

;0)

You'll find this hugely ironic in light of your post--but Moroni 10:4 proved the undoing of the whole thing.  Because I'd read the BoM many times and never experienced any discernible outcome in response to repeated prayers, I came to the conclusion my problem was that I wasn't meeting its prerequisite--faith in Christ.  You see, I actually came to take it seriously.  And then God used that.  I shared the story here, if you're interested.  Transparency suits me. 

When I told you my motivation for participating on the board, I wasn't kidding.  But in light of your response, I suspect you misunderstood me.  If you wish to retract the "like" you gave me--no worries.

--Erik

I"ve had a read of Romans 9, and I believe you've discussed it in greater detail somewhere around here, but I don't know precisely where, so let me ask you: the epiphany was in the verses (such as 15) where Paul appears to endorse predestination?  Where he says "For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion"?  Or is there another thing in this chapter that led you think that the Bible "was completely and irreconcilably at odds with the 'restored gospel'"?

Just trying to understand the point at which your path diverged.

[Hamba Tuhan]

9 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Because His love for us is perfect, it must be clear that God could not have sent us without knowing from the beginning that Jesus would succeed.

And in fact, the Saviour had already succeeded; he is 'the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world'. When 'Michael and his angels fought against the dragon', 'they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony'. The infinite and eternal sacrifice, which to our mortal reckoning hadn't even occurred yet, was already complete. We have always had a Saviour.

Edited February 25, 2018 by Hamba Tuhan

[Five Solas]

2 hours ago, Stargazer said:

I"ve had a read of Romans 9, and I believe you've discussed it in greater detail somewhere around here, but I don't know precisely where, so let me ask you: the epiphany was in the verses (such as 15) where Paul appears to endorse predestination?  Where he says "For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion"?  Or is there another thing in this chapter that led you think that the Bible "was completely and irreconcilably at odds with the 'restored gospel'"?

Just trying to understand the point at which your path diverged.

We've probably strayed as far from the thread topic as we should (I did feel it necessary to respond to Alaris).  Maybe we could have a Romans 9 thread at some point and discuss the sovereignty of God and human will.  I think you may already have some appreciation for the former and the limits of the latter.  But let's not do it here or now. 

:0)

--Erik

[Marginal Gains]

On 14/02/2018 at 1:47 PM, rongo said:

How does your assessment fit with, say, what I shared from my wife's (that was quite striking)? Or my children's? There are things in mine that are unique and rare (further, the deponent sayeth not. These are things that aren't going to be said very often to very many people). 

I know, anecdotally, that some people have comparative similarities within stakes, and I think that is disappointing and sad. But, that isn't my direct experience (in my own family). 

How long have stake presidents been charged with "quality control" over patriarchal blessings? At least since the 2000s, when there was a worldwide training broadcast just for patriarchs and stake presidents, and that manual was issued. 

I wonder if the "mass produced" blessings are much more a thing of decades ago?

Not sure I want to make it this personal, but pick something from your wife’s blessing that you think is unique and rare and which wouldn’t constitute either a templated comment or promise, and isn’t so ambiguous that you can make it fit something retrospectively.

*I know people who did things to make their patriarchal blessing “come true” which were incredibly damaging to them in terms of their wellbeing in life.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Marginal Gains