Popular Post Jane_Doe Posted January 27, 2018 Popular Post Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Marginal Gains said: I’m not sure I’ve got good examples of members being supportive of gay members of the Church. Again: Why are we not talking about how to better help people to reach out? Why are we not showing good examples of people being supportive of those going through hard times? Why are we instead spreading negativity and attacking others? Instead over simplifying very real complex problems and the people who go through them? This isn't about putting people in buckets of "LDS" or "not", "gay" or "straight"-- it's about looking at INDIVIDUALS who are going through hard times: being there for them, helping them reach resources, to use resources, to get back on their feet. I as someone who's been suicidial (including do to sexual issues and had problems with church culture), nothing bothered me more then (and now) then when folks would completely ignore ME in favor of a bucket category. Same for those I've helped through the years, talked to, etc. We are all individuals, not labels. We all have a duty to help each other- whoever that may be, and not just one "in group". Edited January 27, 2018 by Jane_Doe 6
smac97 Posted January 27, 2018 Posted January 27, 2018 20 minutes ago, Marginal Gains said: You’ve had the clue, if you can’t figure it out then I can’t help you. Well, you could quit being coy and just answer a straightforward question. 20 minutes ago, Marginal Gains said: In fact, you not being able to figure it out, makes my point. Go read your first post on this thread, if you don’t see any barriers in there that would put a gay member off from reaching out to you, then I can’t help you further. Meh. I'll disregard your posts, then. You've nothing substantive to say. Thanks, -Smac 2
Calm Posted January 27, 2018 Posted January 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Bob Crockett said: At one time I read a lot of Freud... Not a good source for specific ideas, his theories where still considered accurate (not many of them) only are in a general sense: https://io9.gizmodo.com/why-freud-still-matters-when-he-was-wrong-about-almost-1055800815
Marginal Gains Posted January 27, 2018 Posted January 27, 2018 1 minute ago, Jane_Doe said: Again: Why are we not talking about how to better help people to reach out? Why are we not showing good examples of people being supportive of those going through hard times? Why are we instead spreading negativity and attacking others? Instead over simplifying very real complex problems and the people who go through them? This isn't about putting people in buckets of "LDS" or "not", "gay" or "straight". This is about the example the First Presidency have set in not bothering to respond to a member who reached out to them for help in understanding, processing, dealing with the suicide of their gay Mormon child. That’s where it starts. That’s what this thread is about. 1
smac97 Posted January 27, 2018 Posted January 27, 2018 20 minutes ago, Calm said: Depression and suicidal feelings are not rational. Sometimes it might be necessary to respond as if they are in order to keep the child alive long enough for treatment to have an effect or to open them up to rational approaches in the future. I don't understand. What do these sentiments have to do with a parent encouraging a child to resign their membership in the Church? I'm not being obtuse. I do not understand. Thanks, -Smac
Garden Girl Posted January 27, 2018 Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Anijen said: I do not believe you are correct here. The Proclamation to the Family specifically states between a man and a woman. The very first paragraph of that proclamation states; "between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children." I believe Ksfisher is right on point with his post. Sorry. I marked these posts to "quote" before I read the posts following this one where answers were given/accepted... I was going to say, the first paragraph states 1) that it is marriage between a man and woman that is ordained of God, and 2) it is the family that is central to the Creator's plan for his children. 4 hours ago, JulieM said: So, single parents and their children are NOT a family? How about divorced parents and their children? Also NOT families? How about the single adult who lives with an aunt or another family member? NOT family? I agree those are the not the average or even considered those “central” to God’s plan. But there are definitely acceptions made and all different combinations of people that are still considered to be “families”. They can be a part of God’s plan even if not “central” to it. You have never heard the Church teach that single or divorced parents/children are not a family. Or the other combinations you mention... how about me... I'm a single sister, widowed, yet I consider myself to be a "family" under God's plan and part of the Proclamation... 3 hours ago, JulieM said: Good, I’m glad we agree that acceptions are made. Sorry if I misunderstood. Yes, acceptions... exceptions... as you have noted are indeed included as families... The 7th paragraph (elaborating on the Family/marriage) makes this clear..."Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation." I'm fortunate to have the blessing of being sealed to my husband so, even though his death took him from me, we are still a family... an eternal family... and so are others as you have noted. GG Edited January 27, 2018 by Garden Girl 2
Jane_Doe Posted January 27, 2018 Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Marginal Gains said: This is about the example the First Presidency have set in not bothering to respond to a member who reached out to them for help in understanding, processing, dealing with the suicide of their gay Mormon child. That’s where it starts. That’s what this thread is about. No. Thats not where it starts. It starts with each individual getting off their butts and reaching out a hand to see and help those individuals in need. You want change? Don't sit around all day whining, get up and DO something! Quit just seeing "Mormon" or not-- that's not what it's about! It's about helping those that are honestly going through life shattering Hell and need help-- not whining. Edited January 27, 2018 by Jane_Doe 2
Calm Posted January 27, 2018 Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Bobbieaware said: Because the destructive news stories that would be used by the Church’s enemies to cause great harm against it in the scenario I described has not and will not ever happen under the scenario you describe. The progressive press has no desire to take a stand in defense of the sanctity traditional marriage. In fact, they couldn’t care less about it. The sad reality is that their passionate desire is to defend gay marriage because they know it undermines the sanctity of traditional marriage. Pure common sense. The Savior compared the wise foresight demonstrated by the Church leaders in this situation to being wise as serpents but as gentle as doves. This is like reasoning the Church allows BYU to teach evolution so it maintains credibility in the eyes of the academic world even if they are causing the thousands of kids who go through there to believe false doctrine. Sure, allow people to sin under covenants as long as it keeps the "progressive press" from putting out negative PR....as if there isn't a ton of stuff out there already doing the same thing. I highly doubt the only or even a major reason the Church is not automatically excommunicating such couples or having a general policy against baptizing children in such families is the bad PR. If they cared that much about PR that it was their top priority, they would never had issued the 2015 policy for children who are in the full custody of married gay parents. Edited January 28, 2018 by Calm 2
Marginal Gains Posted January 27, 2018 Posted January 27, 2018 Just now, Jane_Doe said: No. Thats not where it starts. It starts with each individual getting off their butts and reaching out a hand to see and help those individuals in need. You want change? Don't sit around all day whining, get up and DO something! Quit just seeing "Mormon" or not-- that's not what it's about! It's about helping those that are honestly going through life shattering Hell and need help-- not someone whining. This thread is about discussing the First Presidencies lack of response to a letter from a member reaching out for help in dealing with the suicide of their gay child. In terms of setting the tone for the Church, the FP is absolutely where that starts. Seperately, IRL, you don’t know a thing about me. I’ve already alluded to the fact that reaching out and helping people feel included is something that I do. But that’s a se-write topic, so start a separate the]read about - what can we do individually to reach out to struggling people. Then we can talk about it.
Jane_Doe Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Marginal Gains said: Seperately, IRL, you don’t know a thing about me. I’ve already alluded to the fact that reaching out and helping people feel included is something that I do. Then reach out on here too! Be your true self, wherever you are.
CV75 Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Marginal Gains said: This is about the example the First Presidency have set in not bothering to respond to a member who reached out to them for help in understanding, processing, dealing with the suicide of their gay Mormon child. That’s where it starts. That’s what this thread is about. That is not how open letters work... It is naive to expect a reply: Posted 3 hours ago Edited January 28, 2018 by CV75 4
Jeanne Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, CV75 said: That is not how open letters work... It is naive to expect a reply: Posted 3 hours ago why? It is called courtesy. Edited January 28, 2018 by Jeanne
Popular Post juliann Posted January 28, 2018 Popular Post Posted January 28, 2018 2 hours ago, smac97 said: I have six children. I love them all dearly. I hope they remain active in the Church, but I will do all I can to love them if they choose another path. That said, I simply cannot fathom a situation in which resigning from the Church is something God would want us to do. I also cannot articulate any situation in which I, as a parent and a Latter-day Saint, would find it appropriate to counsel my son or daughter to resign. Family is extreme important. In a very real sense, membership in the Church is familial. Moroni 7:19 states that we should "search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil; and if ye will lay hold upon every good thing, and condemn it not, ye certainly will be a child of Christ." The "Guide to the Scriptures" even has an entry for this concept: Children of Christ: And, for that matter, another relevant topic: Bridegroom: From these I perceive that our individual relationships with the Church are, in very real sense, familial. Thanks, -Smac I didn't say anything about resigning from the church. Again, if one of your children was suffering and thinking of suicide and leaving the church would make a difference, would you do it? It is a straight forward question and changing the question or the situation isn't an acceptable approach. This is what I want disclosed by anyone who thinks they can give advice to someone in this situation. Homosexual child Church policies are a factor in their suicidal thoughts Stepping away from the church would keep child alive to work on root problems 6
Atheist Mormon Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 1 hour ago, bluebell said: Do any of us volunteer to bear our crosses though? I don't bear any crosses, religious faithful people do. It goes awfully wrong when they think we were created perfect. This is not a malignant disease like cancer....How do they account Homosexuality? Not very well. 1
Calm Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) 46 minutes ago, smac97 said: I don't understand. What do these sentiments have to do with a parent encouraging a child to resign their membership in the Church? I'm not being obtuse. I do not understand. Thanks, -Smac If your child is having an irrational reaction to dogs so that they go into a major panic attack every time they see a dog to the point they injure themselves, do you attempt to reason with them they just need to calm down because the family dog isn't going to harm anyone or do you find someone to take the dog in until the roots of what is causing the panic can be determined and treated? If the first, why do you assume a rational response will impact an uncontrollable, irrational fear? Keeping a child alive long enough to address issues is rather essential to addressing issues. I am not comparing a dog to the Gospel. Just using it to make what I am talking about clear...hopefully. Edited January 28, 2018 by Calm 3
kllindley Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Atheist Mormon said: If this is a the "will of the Lord", LGTB people should be told by the Lord that He made a mistake creating them the way he did. None of them volunteered to bear this Cross. I did. 2
kllindley Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Marginal Gains said: You’ve had the clue, if you can’t figure it out then I can’t help you. In fact, you not being able to figure it out, makes my point. Go read your first post on this thread, if you don’t see any barriers in there that would put a gay member off from reaching out to you, then I can’t help you further. Do you speak as a gay member? Because I would feel very comfortable approaching him. Projection much?
USU78 Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 32 minutes ago, Jeanne said: why? It is called courtesy. Not at all: the discourtesy is in publishing for public consumption and dissection a letter disingenuously submitted to address a personal problem. That's politics, not respectful, heartfelt inquiry. 4
kllindley Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 59 minutes ago, Marginal Gains said: This is about the example the First Presidency have set in not bothering to respond to a member who reached out to them for help in understanding, processing, dealing with the suicide of their gay Mormon child. That’s where it starts. That’s what this thread is about. You don't write a letter to a group expecting a personal reply. What if I sent a letter to the Senate? Who would reply? It really sounds like a political move. 1
USU78 Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 30 minutes ago, juliann said: I didn't say anything about resigning from the church. Again, if one of your children was suffering and thinking of suicide and leaving the church would make a difference, would you do it? It is a straight forward question and changing the question or the situation isn't an acceptable approach. This is what I want disclosed by anyone who thinks they can give advice to someone in this situation. Homosexual child Church policies are a factor in their suicidal thoughts Stepping away from the church would keep child alive to work on root problems It is a lie and a slander that the Gospel and/or the Church causes in any meaningful, proximate way any suicide. 2
california boy Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 4 hours ago, Darren10 said: Of course there are exceptions but in the end an eternal marriage must compose of a man, at least one woman sealed to that man, and their respective children, correct? When has it been accepted that a man could be sealed to a man? Note also, Josh makes no acknowledgement of the priesthood or sealing ordinances of the temple when it comes to eternal families. To him it's about love keeping a family together for eternity. That's nice sentiment but when has that ever been a part of the gospel of Jesus Christ, particularly in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; which is the obvious source for Josh believing in the very concept of eternal families? I think Josh is trying to figure out if he fits into the Plan of Salvation for the reality that faces. him. Obviously, in your opinion, he doesn't if he continues on the course that he feels is best for him. Church doctrine is only one type of family is going to make it in the eternities.
ttribe Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, USU78 said: It is a lie and a slander that the Gospel and/or the Church causes in any meaningful, proximate way any suicide. Goodness...who are you to redefine what an individual says is the focus of his/her suicide ideations? 1
kllindley Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 8 minutes ago, USU78 said: It is a lie and a slander that the Gospel and/or the Church causes in any meaningful, proximate way any suicide. Not only that, it actively contributes to the problem if suicide. 5 minutes ago, ttribe said: Goodness...who are you to redefine what an individual says is the focus of his/her suicide ideations? See my post on the other thread.
ttribe Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 1 minute ago, kllindley said: Not only that, it actively contributes to the problem if suicide. See my post on the other thread. And I responded to you there.
USU78 Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 21 minutes ago, ttribe said: Goodness...who are you to redefine what an individual says is the focus of his/her suicide ideations? ... yet who are you to misrepresent what I posted so grossly?
Recommended Posts