Why did it take a media firestorm to bring changes to BYU

[bsjkki]

Positive changes at BYU are already bringing measurable benefits to the campus. More sexual assault victims are seeking help and reporting and “consent” is now explained at student orientation. ifhttp://www.sltrib.com/news/education/2017/10/22/brigham-young-university-students-say-sexual-assault-policy-changes-have-eased-culture-of-fear-but-theres-more-work-to-be-done/ 

“Tiffany Turley, the school’s new full-time Title IX coordinator, said the university has received more sexual assault reports in the first few weeks of classes than it saw in fall semester last year.

Her office, charged with swiftly responding to and resolving complaints of sexual violence, has provided 60 training sessions to students and faculty already this semester, Turley said.

“I think people just might not have known what Title IX was before, so with all the trainings that we’re doing, the awareness campaigns … people know there is a place on campus where they can go and get help,” she said.

She said the reports are “significant” but declined to provide a specific figure.”

Why did it take negative press to make this change and understand the gravity of the problems? 

[jkwilliams]

Just now, bsjkki said:

Positive changes at BYU are already bringing measurable benefits to the campus. More sexual assault victims are seeking help and reporting and “consent” is now explained at student orientation. ifhttp://www.sltrib.com/news/education/2017/10/22/brigham-young-university-students-say-sexual-assault-policy-changes-have-eased-culture-of-fear-but-theres-more-work-to-be-done/ 

“Tiffany Turley, the school’s new full-time Title IX coordinator, said the university has received more sexual assault reports in the first few weeks of classes than it saw in fall semester last year.

Her office, charged with swiftly responding to and resolving complaints of sexual violence, has provided 60 training sessions to students and faculty already this semester, Turley said.

“I think people just might not have known what Title IX was before, so with all the trainings that we’re doing, the awareness campaigns … people know there is a place on campus where they can go and get help,” she said.

She said the reports are “significant” but declined to provide a specific figure.”

Why did it take negative press to make this change and understand the gravity of the problems? 

Often we don’t see a problem unless someone points it out to us. 

[Pete Ahlstrom]

Real change in deep seated church policy usually comes from outside pressure.  Polygamy, priesthood ban, and now title ix are good examples.  I think this is true of pretty much any organization or country, etc.  It sometimes takes outsiders, like JK says above, to point out that the emperor has no clothes. 

[stemelbow]

It may be that more male students think they can get away with it, thanks to the reporting in recent years resulting in more sexual assaults overall.  Hopefully someday the actual number of assaults in any given term at BYU is zero.  

If it went rom five last fall to ten this fall, and the number of assaults increased this isn’t a positive.  

[bsjkki]

1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

It may be that more male students think they can get away with it, thanks to the reporting in recent years resulting in more sexual assaults overall.  Hopefully someday the actual number of assaults in any given term at BYU is zero.  

If it went rom five last fall to ten this fall, and the number of assaults increased this isn’t a positive.  

It is believed there is an increase in reporting not an increase in assaults. 

“Julie Valentine, a BYU nursing professor who researches sexual assault and served on the advisory council, said new faith in the school’s Title IX process may have led more survivors to come forward.

“I know we have more students reporting, which means that there’s increased trust, so to speak, of the system, and that’s what we want,” she said, noting that the increase likely doesn’t reflect an increase in sexual assaults.”

[bluebell]

If this increase is because more women are reporting assault that could have gotten them in trouble for breaking the honor code, maybe emphasis should be put on how actually keeping the honor code protects people from sexual assault.

[Duncan]

Some people, LDS or not, don't want to think admit? their organization, business etc. doesn't have a problem (when they actually do) so these things get swept under the rug until it collapses in on it's own weight. Pres. Monson said, "get the facts before the facts get you"

[Avatar4321]

How is anyone supposed to change before they realize there is a problem?

[Duncan]

1 hour ago, Avatar4321 said:

How is anyone supposed to change before they realize there is a problem?

Through Christ. Have you ever seen that show, "Undercover Boss"? It shows how these CEO's go undercover at the lowest level of their organization and work a day in a job and boy oh boy do they find out some stuff that would probably not get brought up in the board meeting.  For example the Mayor of Cincinnati went undercover and one job he did was roadkill pick up. What he uncovered was unbelievable and how that dept. was operated

. W

[Rain]

I'm wondering if it has anything to do with knowing how to report it or that you should.  I'm going to ask my daughter when she gets home, how she would go about it.  (She doesn't go to BYU).

[bsjkki]

41 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Through Christ. Have you ever seen that show, "Undercover Boss"? It shows how these CEO's go undercover at the lowest level of their organization and work a day in a job and boy oh boy do they find out some stuff that would probably not get brought up in the board meeting.  For example the Mayor of Cincinnati went undercover and one job he did was roadkill pick up. What he uncovered was unbelievable and how that dept. was operated

. W

I think this is one reason. Concerns are either ignored, viewed as unimportant due to status of person reporting or never brought to the top. I read the reports of one father who complained about the treatment of his daughter (who was exonerated) but he said it was like talking to a brick wall. Maybe in such a top down structure, it is hard to question the status quo.

[Calm]

It would be interesting to know how long the previous individual was in the job.  I have known of BYU staff who have been there for decades.  Change can be hard if the person getting the reports of problems doesn't see problems.

Many wouldn't think to go up the chain if they had difficulties.

[Duncan]

2 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

I think this is one reason. Concerns are either ignored, viewed as unimportant due to status of person reporting or never brought to the top. I read the reports of one father who complained about the treatment of his daughter (who was exonerated) but he said it was like talking to a brick wall. Maybe in such a top down structure, it is hard to question the status quo.

One thing that I don't get and maybe, hopefully, i'm wrong but if someone hurt you or something like that then i'd be going to the police and let them take care of and the perp. I wouldn't be going to some non authorized police person

[Rain]

Ok, asked my daughter. She said she would go to one of her academic advisors or teachers on one campus, but wasn't sure what she would do on the other.  One campus is sort of contained in an area and she is more familiar with it. The other campus is some buildings here and there in the middle of the city.  I asked about going to camps police or security and she said she didn't even know where they were. 

I am curious now though what they would say about what has changed.

[Robert F. Smith]

6 hours ago, bsjkki said:

................................................

Why did it take negative press to make this change and understand the gravity of the problems? 

That is why a free press is so important -- because it is always necessary for the facts to be laid before a self-governing people.  Socio-political institutions only respond when pressure is brought upon them.  Top-down governance just doesn't work.  As Joseph Smith said:

 ‘I teach them correct principles, and they govern themselves.’  (John Taylor, “The Organization of the Church,” Millennial Star, Nov 15, 1851, p. 339)

[strappinglad]

In addition to touring the academic and sports facilities when considering a college, one should tour the campus security offices and local police station so as to know where to go in case of emergency.

As a side note, where can I find stats on how many students apply to BYU vs how many enter each year?

Hay, I just noticed my rep and post numbers. Bet that doesn't happen much. What are the odds? Too complicated for me, sorry.

Edited October 22, 2017 by strappinglad

[Calm]

13,000 applied and 7200 accepted in 2016 according to this:

https://news.byu.edu/news/byu-welcomes-one-largest-highest-achieving-freshmen-classes-campus

[kiwi57]

8 hours ago, bsjkki said:

Positive changes at BYU are already bringing measurable benefits to the campus. More sexual assault victims are seeking help and reporting and “consent” is now explained at student orientation. ifhttp://www.sltrib.com/news/education/2017/10/22/brigham-young-university-students-say-sexual-assault-policy-changes-have-eased-culture-of-fear-but-theres-more-work-to-be-done/ 

“Tiffany Turley, the school’s new full-time Title IX coordinator, said the university has received more sexual assault reports in the first few weeks of classes than it saw in fall semester last year.

Her office, charged with swiftly responding to and resolving complaints of sexual violence, has provided 60 training sessions to students and faculty already this semester, Turley said.

“I think people just might not have known what Title IX was before, so with all the trainings that we’re doing, the awareness campaigns … people know there is a place on campus where they can go and get help,” she said.

She said the reports are “significant” but declined to provide a specific figure.”

Why did it take negative press to make this change and understand the gravity of the problems? 

Just how big a "media firestorm" was it?

[kiwi57]

7 hours ago, Pete Ahlstrom said:

Real change in deep seated church policy usually comes from outside pressure.  Polygamy, priesthood ban, and now title ix are good examples.

I realise that that assumption is an important article of anti-Mormon unfaith; but it is false.

7 hours ago, Pete Ahlstrom said:

It sometimes takes outsiders, like JK says above, to point out that the emperor has no clothes. 

I realise that that cliche is an important article of anti-Mormon unfaith; therefore it is false.

[Calm]

11 minutes ago, kiwi57 said:

Just how big a "media firestorm" was it?

It had worldwide coverage though have no clue how much people paid attention to that news worldwide.  The Trib got a Pulitzer for its coverage.

[clarkgoble]

52 minutes ago, kiwi57 said:

Just how big a "media firestorm" was it?

It had a lot of attention especially on campus. I'm not sure the Title IX stuff or honor code stuff was as significant as getting the word out for people to report assaults. But even if I'm wrong, this is a good thing, and hopefully will lead to rapists going to prison.

I think these things go in cycles. There was a lot of media about rape and reporting it back in the early 90's. It led to some changes but unfortunately primarily focused on stranger rape rather than the far more common case where the victim known his or her attacker.

Edited October 23, 2017 by clarkgoble

[USU78]

Title IX sexual assault investigation duties are such a new phenomenon in the University universe it's pretty rotten to see ill intent because of not yet being fully up to speed on this year's mission creep drama

[clarkgoble]

28 minutes ago, USU78 said:

Title IX sexual assault investigation duties are such a new phenomenon in the University universe it's pretty rotten to see ill intent because of not yet being fully up to speed on this year's mission creep drama

I have pretty big problems with how the Obama administration expanded the interpretation of Title IX so significantly. Some of that is being rolled back. At a minimum I think we need some semblance of due process. That said, getting people to actually report rape is difficult and we should praise attempts to do that. I think that nationally the ubiquity of alcohol and drugs remains a huge problem that almost certainly contributes a lot to rape, particularly by those known by the assaulted. Eliminate such things and you go a long ways to solving the problem. That said BYU is clear evidence that isn't enough. Further that there are many predators who pretend to be nice guys and then do horrific things. Such people have to be brought to justice. Further the denial many have needs to change (much like the denial many had towards pedophiles had to change to start solving the problem) It's important to realize it can happen here. Indeed our naiveté, trusting nature and unfortunate stigma means this is a perfect preying ground for predators.

[kiwi57]

17 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

I have pretty big problems with how the Obama administration expanded the interpretation of Title IX so significantly. Some of that is being rolled back. At a minimum I think we need some semblance of due process. That said, getting people to actually report rape is difficult and we should praise attempts to do that. I think that nationally the ubiquity of alcohol and drugs remains a huge problem that almost certainly contributes a lot to rape, particularly by those known by the assaulted. Eliminate such things and you go a long ways to solving the problem. That said BYU is clear evidence that isn't enough. Further that there are many predators who pretend to be nice guys and then do horrific things. Such people have to be brought to justice. Further the denial many have needs to change (much like the denial many had towards pedophiles had to change to start solving the problem) It's important to realize it can happen here. Indeed our naiveté, trusting nature and unfortunate stigma means this is a perfect preying ground for predators.

That, and the fact that there continue to be people who choose not to do the things that are designed to keep them safe.

No safeguards will work when they're not being followed.

[Calm]

40 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

I have pretty big problems with how the Obama administration expanded the interpretation of Title IX so significantly. Some of that is being rolled back. At a minimum I think we need some semblance of due process. That said, getting people to actually report rape is difficult and we should praise attempts to do that. I think that nationally the ubiquity of alcohol and drugs remains a huge problem that almost certainly contributes a lot to rape, particularly by those known by the assaulted. Eliminate such things and you go a long ways to solving the problem. That said BYU is clear evidence that isn't enough. Further that there are many predators who pretend to be nice guys and then do horrific things. Such people have to be brought to justice. Further the denial many have needs to change (much like the denial many had towards pedophiles had to change to start solving the problem) It's important to realize it can happen here. Indeed our naiveté, trusting nature and unfortunate stigma means this is a perfect preying ground for predators.

Back when I was newly married, my exboss' kid was kidnapped from the Provo area and taken home with him to So Cal by a rapist (she was around 5 and was taken for 6 weeks, iirc).  There were several kipnappings and assaults over the next while.  I heard from one police officer who specialized in sex crimes, that Utah Valley attracted sexual criminals due to the perceived innocence of its children and young adults.

Edited October 23, 2017 by Calm