Amulek Posted October 25, 2017 Posted October 25, 2017 10 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said: Agreed. But how many newsworthy stories does it take to make a media firestorm? I don't know. I assume it has to be more than one. Is it two, three, a dozen, more? There were about ten stories (see, e.g., here). I'm not sure how you define a firestorm, but it was certainly a hot topic for a period of time.
thesometimesaint Posted October 25, 2017 Posted October 25, 2017 1 minute ago, Amulek said: There were about ten stories (see, e.g., here). I'm not sure how you define a firestorm, but it was certainly a hot topic for a period of time. I'm sure it was. I'm not sure what level of coverage constitutes a firestorm. I've long said you can get anything you want at BYU, and some things you don't want. So I do recognize it happens. But why is one level a problem that needs to be taken care of, and another level needs a firestorm?
kiwi57 Posted October 25, 2017 Posted October 25, 2017 3 hours ago, Calm said: What would you suggest they have done to fight harder? Both men and women went to jail and the government was confiscating Church property. Indeed. As President Woodruff said, if the government had carried out all the measures it had given itself the power to do - including confiscating the temples and incarcerating all the leading brethren - then that would perforce have stopped the practice anyway.
Pete Ahlstrom Posted October 25, 2017 Posted October 25, 2017 4 hours ago, carbon dioxide said: As for polygamy, yes it did come from outside pressure from the government. It is not like the Church wanted to go in that direction and it is kind of sad that Church did not fight harder for its rights. Regardless of whether polygamy was right or not, the government had no right to violate the First Amendment rights of the Church and its members over the issue. I totally reject the notion that outside pressure. had any affect over the priesthood issue. Why would the Church care about the views of non-members (almost all of whom have never had an interest at joining the church) on the issue? That is like me making decisions on how I run my household to appease some people who are not a part of my family and I really don't care about. I value the opinions of my dogs over their opinions. Brazil was problematic and read about Helvecio Martins, a former G.A. that was subject to the ban. I think his situation/opinion and others down there really affected the push to reliquish the ban. Also, the refusal of teams to play byu was taking its toll. One can say outside pressure doesn't affect decisions but I think that is naive.
kiwi57 Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 2 hours ago, Pete Ahlstrom said: Brazil was problematic and read about Helvecio Martins, a former G.A. that was subject to the ban. I think his situation/opinion and others down there really affected the push to reliquish the ban. That assumes that there was a "push." I don't believe there was. Believing Latter-day Saints generally don't regard it as their place to "push" for things. So they don't. 2 hours ago, Pete Ahlstrom said: Also, the refusal of teams to play byu was taking its toll. So, at the height of the "college protest" movement, a couple of colleges decided to take their bat and ball and go home - and that was the intolerable pressure? Oh my! 2 hours ago, Pete Ahlstrom said: One can say outside pressure doesn't affect decisions but I think that is naive. One can assume that a trivial (and declining) amount of "pressure" somehow tipped the brethren over the edge. One can refuse the give the Church credit for doing something when there was no knife at our throats, but I think that is cynical.
Pete Ahlstrom Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 15 hours ago, kiwi57 said: That assumes that there was a "push." I don't believe there was. Believing Latter-day Saints generally don't regard it as their place to "push" for things. So they don't. So, at the height of the "college protest" movement, a couple of colleges decided to take their bat and ball and go home - and that was the intolerable pressure? Oh my! One can assume that a trivial (and declining) amount of "pressure" somehow tipped the brethren over the edge. One can refuse the give the Church credit for doing something when there was no knife at our throats, but I think that is cynical. BYU sports are pretty important to a lot of people, including the leadership. They realize that baptisms increase in the US when BYU sports teams do well. Of course, that had nothing to do with it, because ... nothing that others do ever affects what the brethren do .... even though it seems highly coincidental that certain events occur and there is then an action taken by the brethren to make a change. But alas, the pressures were trivial .... of course they were.
thesometimesaint Posted October 26, 2017 Posted October 26, 2017 28 minutes ago, Pete Ahlstrom said: BYU sports are pretty important to a lot of people, including the leadership. They realize that baptisms increase in the US when BYU sports teams do well. Of course, that had nothing to do with it, because ... nothing that others do ever affects what the brethren do .... even though it seems highly coincidental that certain events occur and there is then an action taken by the brethren to make a change. But alas, the pressures were trivial .... of course they were. Gee; Here I though all along that sending out 10's of thousands of Missionaries a year was a greater draw than a little more than a dozen or so football players sent out to play a football game one day per week, a few weeks a year. 1
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