Will Bronco Mendenhall's fireside demand decrease after this article?

[Thinking]

At halftime of Virginia's win over Boise State, Bronco Mendenhall (former BYU head coach) used some language that would make a movie rated R (or at least PG-13 if he only used a couple).

Bronco Mendenhall's colorful halftime speech fired up UVa

When Bronco Mendenhall was the BYU football coach he was a popular fireside speaker. I'm confident that he was also in demand in Virginia after being hired as the University of Virginia head football coach. The article states that he "dropped a couple of f-bombs."

Do you think this will decrease the demand for him to speak at firesides?

Note: J. Golden Kimball references are welcome.

[strappinglad]

For perspective, a former SP of mine was a rancher and raised cattle and sheep. He had to travel to SLC to discuss a building the Church was doing in our town. After waiting for some time in the office to see the apostle in charge ,he let slip a 4 letter word. The receptionist chided him for his language. He said , and I quote , " Listen , I was a sheep herder long before I was a Stake President !".

[Atheist Mormon]

2 hours ago, Thinking said:

Do you think this will decrease the demand for him to speak at firesides?

I don't much care about that part but I was very angry when BYU let him go. I just cringed watching his Virginia team QB throwing 2 fifty yard passes on Friday evening.

[The Nehor]

I don't get the devotion so many have to sports so I do not get why we want coaches as fireside speakers in the first place.

I am not saying that in a demeaning fashion. I kind of envy those who can get enthusiastic about a sport.

[Atheist Mormon]

23 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I don't get the devotion so many have to sports so I do not get why we want coaches as fireside speakers in the first place.

I am not saying that in a demeaning fashion. I kind of envy those who can get enthusiastic about a sport.

Yea you do....You can't have better ambassador than Steve Young!!!!! (Not Jim McMahon)

[smac97]

3 hours ago, Thinking said:

At halftime of Virginia's win over Boise State, Bronco Mendenhall (former BYU head coach) used some language that would make a movie rated R (or at least PG-13 if he only used a couple).

Bronco Mendenhall's colorful halftime speech fired up UVa

From the article:

Quote

After giving up scoring drives to start the first half and to it end, Bronco Mendenhall let the UVa defense have it in the locker room at half time.

Micah Kiser confirmed that to Andrew Ramspacher of the Daily Progress following Virginia’s 42-23 win at Boise State on Friday night.

"Dropped a couple f-bombs,” said Kiser of Mendenhall. “It was awesome, honestly.”

After the game, Mendenhall was asked about the rear-end chewing he gave his defense at the break.

"They hadn't seen that side of me, much,” said Mendenhall. “It was good for everybody.”

I think there is some value in considering that one of the fundamental objectives in the profession of lawyering is to persuade.  As an attorney, I have long been impressed with the obligation imposed on attorneys to present their position with vigor and intellect, but also with civility and decorum.  Judges do not tolerate swearing in their courtrooms, particularly from lawyers.

-Smac

 

 

Edited September 25, 2017 by smac97

[The Nehor]

13 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Yea you do....You can't have better ambassador than Steve Young!!!!! (Not Jim McMahon)

Ambassador of what? I just do not get it.

[Atheist Mormon]

11 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Ambassador of what? I just do not get it.

OK, If U don't get it....I can't make you...Let's leave it at that.

[sunstoned]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I don't get the devotion so many have to sports so I do not get why we want coaches as fireside speakers in the first place.

I am not saying that in a demeaning fashion. I kind of envy those who can get enthusiastic about a sport.

Agreed.  The skills needed to coach football do not necessary transfer over to fireside speaking. 

[rodheadlee]

11 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I don't get the devotion so many have to sports so I do not get why we want coaches as fireside speakers in the first place.

I am not saying that in a demeaning fashion. I kind of envy those who can get enthusiastic about a sport.

Sports are supposed to teach discipline and teamwork. In football the 11  become one. There is no I in team.

[stemelbow]

Maybe he's tired of doing those damn firesides.  Seriously, speaking engagements without getting paid?  It's gotta get old.  He figured he'd get a two for one out of it.  Stop the demand for him coming to speak at firesides and rile up his team with some unexpected curse words. 

I think I've gained a new found respect for him.  

[rongo]

He doesn't do firesides at Virginia. It's not a church school, and would be a distraction from his job there. Coaching at BYU entailed things that wouldn't be appropriate at other schools. 

ETA: I'm not defending his language. I, myself, have never used the F word in my life, and I am extremely conservative when it comes to swearing. There can be a time and a place for it, even for faithful LDS.

My father was in the Marine Corps at the tail end of Vietnam (he actually got the best of both worlds --- due to the draw-down, he didn't have to serve his full commitment, but he got full GI Bill benefits. He was in the Marines for less than a year). At the end of boot camp, his drill sergeant told his men that he wanted them to know that he did not use that kind of language at home or outside of work. He told them that they are trained to in a military setting, because there is psychological shock and adrenaline value that you just can't get any other way. "Darnit! C'mon, man!" doesn't cut it in situations covered in military combat situations.

When he got out of the Marines, he went to a Salt Lake Gulls game at Derks Field (maybe they were the Bees back then). Going out to his car, he noticed two young Mexicans following him. He was parked in a dimly-lit area, it was late at night, and there was no one around. They continued to follow them, and he could tell that they had bad intentions. He let them get closer, dropped to one knee, pretended to pull a knife out of his sock, and charged them, screaming, "Which one of you _____ ________ is first?!"  They took off. 

Talking like George McFly ("Now, Biff . . .") wouldn't have sold it like he needed to. The profanity was required in that situation. 

I think riling up a team in the locker room can be done with emotion, and not profanity. 

Edited September 25, 2017 by rongo

[cdowis]

Hmmm

And what did Joseph Smith say about profanity?  Anyone remember.  (I don't think you will find this quote in the Teachings of the Prophets manual  

Edited September 25, 2017 by cdowis

[HappyJackWagon]

4 minutes ago, rongo said:

He doesn't do firesides at Virginia. It's not a church school, and would be a distraction from his job there. Coaching at BYU entailed things that wouldn't be appropriate at other schools. 

It may not be as common but I'd be surprised if he's not doing firesides at all. In my experience, almost every LDS professional athlete and/or coach does firesides wherever they may live. They are Mormon celebrities. People want to hear them talk and take collective pride in their accomplishments.

[rongo]

5 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

It may not be as common but I'd be surprised if he's not doing firesides at all. In my experience, almost every LDS professional athlete and/or coach does firesides wherever they may live. They are Mormon celebrities. People want to hear them talk and take collective pride in their accomplishments.

He's not. He's specifically said that he isn't at Virginia. They hired him for the specific job of rebuilding the team and elevating Virginia out of decades of futility. They want him to focus on that. They're already kind of skittish that almost his entire staff was brought from BYU, and he needs to avoid any "appearance of evil" that would raise eyebrows about Mormon ulterior motives, divided attention/loyalties, etc.

He is required to work Sundays there, too. It's part of the job.

[HappyJackWagon]

4 minutes ago, rongo said:

He's not. He's specifically said that he isn't at Virginia. They hired him for the specific job of rebuilding the team and elevating Virginia out of decades of futility. They want him to focus on that. They're already kind of skittish that almost his entire staff was brought from BYU, and he needs to avoid any "appearance of evil" that would raise eyebrows about Mormon ulterior motives, divided attention/loyalties, etc.

He is required to work Sundays there, too. It's part of the job.

That's strange that an employer would prohibit an employee from speaking and participating in his church. Like I said, I've seen LDS professionals give firesides all over the place. For example, Andy Reid has always done this in every city where he coaches. It would have been strange for the Eagles or the Chiefs to refuse to let him speak to the church on his own time. Pretty ridiculous actually. I'm wondering if Bronco is spinning a yarn that seems plausible enough to get him out of speaking engagements. But if he says he's not doing them, I believe him.

[rongo]

22 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

That's strange that an employer would prohibit an employee from speaking and participating in his church. Like I said, I've seen LDS professionals give firesides all over the place. For example, Andy Reid has always done this in every city where he coaches. It would have been strange for the Eagles or the Chiefs to refuse to let him speak to the church on his own time. Pretty ridiculous actually. I'm wondering if Bronco is spinning a yarn that seems plausible enough to get him out of speaking engagements. But if he says he's not doing them, I believe him.

Not prohibiting, no. That might get into EEOC territory. If Mendenhall insisted on continuing to do firesides, he wouldn't be prevented, at least not overtly. But that would increase the magnification of the microscope he is under, and give him less margin for error on the rebuild. Drumbeats of criticism would increase if there were any sign (real, or perceived) that he were in any way prioritizing Mormonism over winning ACC football games. Both Mendenhall and Virginia knew this when they hired him, whether this was spoken or not.

The Mendenahll hire was a risk. A quirky, socially awkward coach who famously put football as number five on his priority list after more important things. He had to convince them that football would be number one if he were hired, and then he has to do that. 

ETA: I'm confident that Mendenhall wouldn't be trying to get out of firesides by making up stories of being prohibited. He enjoyed doing them, and made that an emphasis at BYU. But, the climate, atmosphere, and purpose of BYU is *very* different than at any other school. The intense fireside focus could only have been done in a BYU environment.

Edited September 25, 2017 by rongo

[clarkgoble]

13 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

I don't much care about that part but I was very angry when BYU let him go. I just cringed watching his Virginia team QB throwing 2 fifty yard passes on Friday evening.

BYU didn't really "let him go." I think he was honestly a little burnt out at BYU and wanted a change of pace. Despite his rather Stoic appearance at BYU he's actually a pretty goofy guy. Having to watch everything he did probably wore on him after a while. I hope him the best at Virginia. This is the first big accomplishment there. After last year I think a lot of people were wondering how long he'd be there. This is a pretty important win for him.

Of course BYU is struggling under Kalani too. Although one big strength Kalani has is in recruiting which frankly wasn't Bronco's strength, to say the least. If they could figure out the offense then I think BYU will be on a strong course. (I think moving Ty from high school to college with no experience in an easier program was a bit of a mistake even though I think too many are blaming Ty for everything)

[Pete Ahlstrom]

I'm a big Bronco fan, having known him personally when we were young.  I think he was definitely burnt out of the obligations he thought he had as BYU's head coach.  However, he created them.  He didn't have to do so many firesides and he is not a politician or religious leader.  He is a football coach and a pretty good one at that.  Kalani was wise to stop the fireside tour and take a little of the religion out of football.

[Jeanne]

I like this man.  Always had respect for him.  I just hope he finds out who he is..and be that person..not who he is expected to be. 

[SmileyMcGee]

14 hours ago, smac97 said:

From the article:

I think there is some value in considering that one of the fundamental objectives in the profession of lawyering is to persuade.  As an attorney, I have long been impressed with the obligation imposed on attorneys to present their position with vigor and intellect, but also with civility and decorum.  Judges do not tolerate swearing in their courtrooms, particularly from lawyers.

-Smac

 

 

Well if a judge in a courtroom thinks it's improper......thank goodness we don't all live in a courtroom. 

Anytime someone gets on their soapbox about swearing, I can't help but think of a line from Apocalypse Now: "We train young men to drop fire on people, but their commanders won't allow them to write 'f***' on their airplanes because it's obscene."

[Bernard Gui]

15 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I don't get the devotion so many have to sports so I do not get why we want coaches as fireside speakers in the first place.

I am not saying that in a demeaning fashion. I kind of envy those who can get enthusiastic about a sport.

I hear you. Somehow being an athlete or some other kind of LDS celebrity makes your experiences, testimony, personal habits, whatever, better, more powerful, more relevant than others'. For example, when a good LDS athlete chooses to forgo a couple of years of his/her sport to serve a mission it's reported in the news with awe, and when they return to the field afterwards it's headline news. Why is that more laudable than any other young person who gives two years to the Lord? Is their sacrifice not as significant? How about a tuba player taking two years away from training? Not news? Not a sacrifice?

If we emulate people because of their celebrity, then we should also own it if they mess up. We are all human. We all do things that are laudable and shameful. There is only One who never lets us down.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[smac97]

15 minutes ago, SmileyMcGee said:

Well if a judge in a courtroom thinks it's improper......thank goodness we don't all live in a courtroom. 

I recognize that reasonable minds can disagree about such things.  But I think the coarsening of societal communications is making our interactions worse.  And a fundamental aspect of that coarsening is the decrease in civility and increase in vulgarity/profanity.

15 minutes ago, SmileyMcGee said:

Anytime someone gets on their soapbox about swearing, I can't help but think of a line from Apocalypse Now: "We train young men to drop fire on people, but their commanders won't allow them to write 'f***' on their airplanes because it's obscene."

Having served in the military, I am fairly familiar with the cussin' culture.  In contrast, what we have hear is a prominent Latter-day Saint dropping f-bombs, and gaining notoriety thereby.  I find that disappointing.  

-Smac

[hope_for_things]

17 hours ago, Thinking said:

At halftime of Virginia's win over Boise State, Bronco Mendenhall (former BYU head coach) used some language that would make a movie rated R (or at least PG-13 if he only used a couple).

Bronco Mendenhall's colorful halftime speech fired up UVa

When Bronco Mendenhall was the BYU football coach he was a popular fireside speaker. I'm confident that he was also in demand in Virginia after being hired as the University of Virginia head football coach. The article states that he "dropped a couple of f-bombs."

Do you think this will decrease the demand for him to speak at firesides?

Note: J. Golden Kimball references are welcome.

I learned as a child in a very conservative home to not use "bad language".  Even going on a few years now on this faith journey, I still speak the same as I did before.  I typically don't say those words, its just a habit for me. 

But one thing that did change is I started listening to people that do use that kind of language.  I also started watching R rated movies for the first time in my life as a 40 year old adult (don't laugh, I just thought I was being an obedient Mormon), and you know what I've found?  I've found that this language that used to really make me cringe, just doesn't bother me much anymore at all.  It still has a strong meaning, but it doesn't carry any of the shame that I used to imbue that language with in the past.  Words are just words and they have meaning and emotion and convey a message, but they aren't inherently bad.  

I personally believe that as an adult I was halting my growth by avoiding people and avoiding media that contained this kind of language.  I was shielding my sensibilities from the raw emotion and hurt and pain that is expressed through strong language.  Perhaps this is good advice for children but it is not good advice for adults.  I think what is appropriate for young children and what is appropriate for adults is largely missed by conservative Mormons.  I know I was missing it by rigidly following what I perceived as the program that the church is advocating.  

[Bernard Gui]

17 minutes ago, SmileyMcGee said:

Well if a judge in a courtroom thinks it's improper......thank goodness we don't all live in a courtroom. 

Anytime someone gets on their soapbox about swearing, I can't help but think of a line from Apocalypse Now: "We train young men to drop fire on people, but their commanders won't allow them to write 'f***' on their airplanes because it's obscene."

Francis Ford Coppola as arbiter of proper expression?

G Washington, T Rosevelt, D McKay, S Kimball and...........Francis Ford Coppola?