Will Bronco Mendenhall's fireside demand decrease after this article?

[Calm]

 

2 hours ago, Pete Ahlstrom said:

 So, couldn't other words become more accepted over time and lose their vulgarity thereby?

There are a couple of words I use that were considered emphatic, but not really swears where I grew up that I found were considered swearing elsewhere.  No one has gotten offended and said something, so it doesn't stick in my mind that I need to care enough to change it.

I don't think words are inherently vulgar though some just sound ugly to me, it is cultural understanding that makes them so.

Profanity in the sense of using terms for the divine in a mundane way is something different, imo.

[strappinglad]

On my mission, the missionaries got into the habit of using a good BoM word in the place of a 4 letter word. That word was " Dross ". Its use became so common that the Mission Pres. made it a point of a meeting to tell us to cease and desist as , in his opinion, we had turned the word into a swear word . I had to agree. Didn't completely stop me from its use, but I did think about it every time.

On another note, one day years ago our stake had a project to shingle the church roof ( now , such would be forbidden ) . Our venerable Patriarch was shingling away when he hit his thumb with the hammer. Anyone who has done so knows the pain incurred. Those around him waited to see what he might come out with. He said not a word but went back to work. A short time later he hit the same thumb again. Once more all stopped and waited for the words. None came. Back to work he went. Upon hitting his thumb for the third time, he threw the hammer and said quietly," I wonder if the Lord will forgive me if I say, DAMN " . Maybe that's what is meant by ," there's a time and a place " !

[Pete Ahlstrom]

54 minutes ago, Calm said:

 

There are a couple of words I use that were considered emphatic, but not really swears where I grew up that I found were considered swearing elsewhere.  No one has gotten offended and said something, so it doesn't stick in my mind that I need to care enough to change it.

I don't think words are inherently vulgar though some just sound ugly to me, it is cultural understanding that makes them so.

Profanity in the sense of using terms for the divine in a mundane way is something different, imo.

I can see an exception for words describing the divine. But I think even those words would lose their savor if society keeps going down the secular path its on. Language does reflect society and what it holds dear, so it seems. 

Edited September 26, 2017 by Pete Ahlstrom

[Calm]

12 minutes ago, Pete Ahlstrom said:

I can see an exception for words describing the divine. But I think even those words would lose their savor if society keeps going down the secular path its on. Language does reflect society and what it holds dear, so it seems. 

Society in general went down that path long ago, imo.  There are some who notice, but most don't even think of what they are saying in relation to the divine, imo.

[rongo]

13 minutes ago, Pete Ahlstrom said:

I can see an exception for words describing the divine. But I think even those words would lose their savor if society keeps going down the secular path its on. Language does reflect society and what it holds dear, so it seems. 

That's where the commandments come in. If we ever reach the point that the Church, mirroring society, weakens on taking the name of God in vain, then we can turn out the lights and go home. 

[Bernard Gui]

10 hours ago, Pete Ahlstrom said:

Having gone down that path, I think people like to try what was once prohibited and sometimes go through an immature stage when leaving and experiment too much. This can lead to some unhealthy outcomes, to be sure. However, I think most realize that high school and college are in the past and move on.

Not like the ones I know who are now dealing with some pretty serious problems.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

8 hours ago, SmileyMcGee said:

how does sharing an opinion with someone equate to taking moral cues from them, or viewing them as an "arbiter of morality"? In addition, asking who we should take cues from implies that value is being placed on who is saying something and not just what they are saying. All I can say is I don't agree with the dichotomy you've proposed. 

OK.

[rodheadlee]

10 hours ago, The Nehor said:

But you can pick out the letters for a solid "me".

Yep, it rarely works to perfection.

[Bernard Gui]

21 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

While that does happen, I'm skeptical it's as common as portrayed. Most people I know left and just continued their usual habits. Maybe they did try coffee and alcohol (after all why not?). But they didn't typically start binge drinking. Some did of course, but most of the people I knew who did that were doing it before falling away. i.e. it was their attraction to such things.

My experience has been just the opposite. It is a fairly common thread in our addiction recovery groups. Often to celebrate their newly-won emancipation, those who have left ask those who stay behind to join them in a toke, a swig, or sip, or at least let them do it in their home in order to prove their "unconditional" love and open-mindedness. When the offers are refused, recriminations follow.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[clarkgoble]

9 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

My experience has been just the opposite. It is a fairly common thread in our addiction recovery groups. Often to celebrate their newly-won amancipation, those who have left ask those who stay behind to join them in a toke, a swig, or sip, or at least let them do it in their home in order to prove their "unconditional" love and open-mindedness. When the offers are refused, recriminations follow.

But almost by definition addiction groups will be drawing an unrepresentative group.

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, clarkgoble said:

But almost by definition addiction groups will be drawing an unrepresentative group.

Of course not everyone who leaves goes overboard, but many do. The families in our groups are representative of active faithful LDS. Their experiences are valid and unfortunately are becoming more common. I know many more who do not attend but should.

Even here on this board some former members talk about the new-found wonders of alcoholic beverages. 

[clarkgoble]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Of course not everyone who leaves goes overboard, but many do. The families in our groups are representative of active faithful LDS. Their experiences are valid and unfortunately are becoming more common. I know many more who do not attend but should.

Even here on this board some former members talk about the new-found wonders of alcoholic beverages. 

Representative means that the cross section in your group has the same characteristics as the broad cross section of the populace. That's what I'm skeptical of as by definition that's not true. Everyone in your group has addiction problems. Only a small percentage of the population has addiction problems. Probably there are other characteristics correlated with addiction characteristics that aren't in the general non-addicted populace. That's all I mean. So I'm using "representative" in its statistical sense.

[Pete Ahlstrom]

18 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Not like the ones I know who are now dealing with some pretty serious problems.

There are always exceptions of course.

[Bernard Gui]

14 minutes ago, Pete Ahlstrom said:

There are always exceptions of course.

Unfortunately, those exceptions are becoming more and more the norm. 

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

Representative means that the cross section in your group has the same characteristics as the broad cross section of the populace. That's what I'm skeptical of as by definition that's not true. Everyone in your group has addiction problems. Only a small percentage of the population has addiction problems. Probably there are other characteristics correlated with addiction characteristics that aren't in the general non-addicted populace. That's all I mean. So I'm using "representative" in its statistical sense.

I understand. The groups I work with are support for families and friends of addicts. There is an increasing number of sad stories of addictions coming after the loved one leaves the Church and starts experimenting with substances. Even when the experimentation does not result in substance abuse, many report that the Word of Wisdom is one of the first things their loved ones jettison. This affects families at all levels of activity in the Church. I'm simply making this observation. Of course not everyone who leaves the Church becomes an addict.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[Pete Ahlstrom]

6 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Unfortunately, those exceptions are becoming more and more the norm. 

I don't know about that. If you have something other than anecdotal evidence I am interested. I hope it's not the "they just want to sin and fell on hard times" meme because I don't think that is it at all. It's more like not being prepared for life as most lead it and maybe having a hard time adapting to a different lifestyle. Thinking things are sin and then realizing they are not is sometimes a recipe for disaster. But in my experience, having seen many transitioning people over the years, most grow up after reliving their lost youth for a bit.

[Calm]

Drug addiction rates appear to be climbing in general (alcoholism may be dropping or may be rising) so any group is likely to be on the rise.

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2017-03-29/heroin-use-addiction-up-sharply-among-us-whites-study

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/29/health/opioid-addiction-rates-increase-500/index.html

https://www.addictioncenter.com/addiction/addiction-statistics/

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/10/16124938/study-alcoholism-addiction-epidemic

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Calm

[Pete Ahlstrom]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Drug addiction rates appear to be climbing in general (alcoholism may be dropping or may be rising) so any group is likely to be on the rise.

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2017-03-29/heroin-use-addiction-up-sharply-among-us-whites-study

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/29/health/opioid-addiction-rates-increase-500/index.html

https://www.addictioncenter.com/addiction/addiction-statistics/

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/10/16124938/study-alcoholism-addiction-epidemic

 

That is certainly something to look at. Drug addiction is definitely a society problem and whatever can stanch the flow is welcome. Be it religion or whatever, let's solve the problem. Obviously there are those who need to stay away from illegal substances. I lost a few friends to addiction and know real well the pain it causes.

[Bernard Gui]

Duplicate

Edited September 28, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

On 9/26/2017 at 8:31 PM, Pete Ahlstrom said:

I don't know about that. If you have something other than anecdotal evidence I am interested. I hope it's not the "they just want to sin and fell on hard times" meme because I don't think that is it at all. It's more like not being prepared for life as most lead it and maybe having a hard time adapting to a different lifestyle. Thinking things are sin and then realizing they are not is sometimes a recipe for disaster. But in my experience, having seen many transitioning people over the years, most grow up after reliving their lost youth for a bit.

11 years working with addicts and their loved ones in the Church and having addiction in the family give me I few creds, I suppose. You can believe what you want. I don't see any point in arguing about it. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Bernard Gui