Will Bronco Mendenhall's fireside demand decrease after this article?

[Kenngo1969]

Quote

“[Spencer W. Kimball] was put under total anaesthesia and operated on, then wheeled on a table back toward his room. Still drugged, Spencer sensed his table stop by an elevator and heard the orderly, angry at something, profaning the Lord’s name. Half-conscious, he pleaded with labored sounds: ‘Please don’t say that. I love Him more than anything in this world. Please.’ An absolute silence. Then the orderly answered softly: ‘I shouldn’t have said that. I’m sorry.’” (Edward L. Kimball and Andrew E. Kimball, Jr., Spencer W. Kimball[Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1977], p. 264.)

Source: https://www.lds.org/manual/family-home-evening-resource-book/lesson-ideas/profanity?lang=eng, last accessed September 25, 2017.

A few million years ago, when I was still an undergrad and dinosaurs still roamed the earth, I was working as an intern in Dixie College's (now Dixie State University) Public Relations office, and my boss gave me a project which would extend into the summer and would extend my stay after graduation, which meant I had to find alternate accommodations off campus.  My roommates were my polar opposites: They were into everything I eschewed as a Good Mormon boy ... alcohol, pornography, and a few other things.  

Of course, their language contained terms that, ummm, let's just say I was unlikely to hear at General Conference.  I quickly realized that preaching wasn't going to do the trick, so I decided to resort to humor instead: Even though I consider profanity no laughing matter, I knew the Soapbox Approach would simply open me up to scorn and ridicule ... and it was unlikely to change anything, besides.  One of my roommates was fond of using the Savior's name as an epithet anytime something happened which he didn't like.  The next time he did so, good-naturedly, I said, "Don't blame Him.  It's not His fault."  He was confused, "What?  Don't blame who?"  I said, "Jesus Christ.  Don't blame Him. He didn't have anything to do with it."  I could tell he thought I was a few fries short of a Happy Meal, but I could also tell that anytime he used the Savior's name as an epithet after that, at least he didn't do so without thinking, as he'd done so many times previously.  

Edited September 25, 2017 by Kenngo1969

[Pete Ahlstrom]

21 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I recognize that reasonable minds can disagree about such things.  But I think the coarsening of societal communications is making our interactions worse.  And a fundamental aspect of that coarsening is the decrease in civility and increase in vulgarity/profanity.

Having served in the military, I am fairly familiar with the cussin' culture.  In contrast, what we have hear is a prominent Latter-day Saint dropping f-bombs, and gaining notoriety thereby.  I find that disappointing.  

-Smac

Bronco gets paid a lot to win football games. It worked.  Football coaches swear and BYU coaches swear as well.  My nephew can attest to that as he was on the team last year.

[SmileyMcGee]

25 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I recognize that reasonable minds can disagree about such things.  But I think the coarsening of societal communications is making our interactions worse.  And a fundamental aspect of that coarsening is the decrease in civility and increase in vulgarity/profanity.

Having served in the military, I am fairly familiar with the cussin' culture.  In contrast, what we have hear is a prominent Latter-day Saint dropping f-bombs, and gaining notoriety thereby.  I find that disappointing.  

-Smac

Fair enough.

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

Sports are supposed to teach discipline and teamwork. In football the 11  become one. There is no I in team.

But you can pick out the letters for a solid "me".

[Scott Lloyd]

3 hours ago, rongo said:

I, myself, have never used the F word in my life, and I am extremely conservative when it comes to swearing. There can be a time and a place for it, even for faithful LDS.

 

Excuse me?

[rockpond]

18 hours ago, Thinking said:

At halftime of Virginia's win over Boise State, Bronco Mendenhall (former BYU head coach) used some language that would make a movie rated R (or at least PG-13 if he only used a couple).

Bronco Mendenhall's colorful halftime speech fired up UVa

When Bronco Mendenhall was the BYU football coach he was a popular fireside speaker. I'm confident that he was also in demand in Virginia after being hired as the University of Virginia head football coach. The article states that he "dropped a couple of f-bombs."

Do you think this will decrease the demand for him to speak at firesides?

Note: J. Golden Kimball references are welcome.

Hopefully we're not that shallow.  But...

As others have indicated, I think his fireside schedule was a function of his position at BYU - not the fact that he is an LDS football coach.

[Guest]

18 hours ago, Thinking said:

At halftime of Virginia's win over Boise State, Bronco Mendenhall (former BYU head coach) used some language that would make a movie rated R (or at least PG-13 if he only used a couple).

Bronco Mendenhall's colorful halftime speech fired up UVa

When Bronco Mendenhall was the BYU football coach he was a popular fireside speaker. I'm confident that he was also in demand in Virginia after being hired as the University of Virginia head football coach. The article states that he "dropped a couple of f-bombs."

Do you think this will decrease the demand for him to speak at firesides?

Note: J. Golden Kimball references are welcome.

Football is a very competitive sport, filled with Alpha males, who when highly emotional use language that is certainly not Sacrament or Sunday Scholl language. Foul language in intense moments, are not the only measure of a man. My guess, with a simple apology, he will continue of the Fireside speaking circuit. 

[Bernard Gui]

42 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

Perhaps this is good advice for children but it is not good advice for adults.  I think what is appropriate for young children and what is appropriate for adults is largely missed by conservative Mormons. 

Having taught in the public schools for 42 years, I enjoyed the puerile talk, humor, gestures, innuendo, graffiti, insults, and behavior on a daily basis. All that stuff the kids did in school is called "adult" by adults who do it. I have never understood what is "adult" about "adult" language, behavior, and entertainment. Why can adults drop f-bombs with impunity but kids get sent to the principal? It's one of the great mysteries of life. 

Here's a great tool to help formulate impassioned utterances when the situation demands a more adult" reaction, when one wishes to rise above those facile common-place profanities we all know and love.

http://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Funny-pages/shakespeare-insult-kit.html

Next time someone cuts me off in traffic, I will shout, "Thou reeky sheep-biting pignut!" Now that's an adult insult!

 

 

[rongo]

15 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Excuse me?

See my anecdote. Would you have preferred my father to have said, "You two go away and leave me alone?"

[Jeanne]

Just now, rongo said:

See my anecdote. Would you have preferred my father to have said, "You two go away and leave me alone?"

I had to smile at this...only because it is exactly what was said to me by my Dad two days ago...go away..leave.  In many ways, I would have felt better if he had slapped me.  One would have to understand I guess.

[Scott Lloyd]

11 minutes ago, rongo said:

See my anecdote. Would you have preferred my father to have said, "You two go away and leave me alone?"

I already saw your anecdote. I thought, "Good for him." I was thrilled with his courage and heroism. And his calmness and presence of mind. But he could have said what he did say minus the vulgarity and it would have been just as effective.

I accept that there are extreme circumstances when even faithful Church members (including, on occasion, high Church leaders, if what I've been told is true) engage in improper language. But you said there is a time and place for them to do so, in effect placing a mark of acceptability on it. I think that goes beyond the pale.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Scott Lloyd

[Pete Ahlstrom]

24 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Source: https://www.lds.org/manual/family-home-evening-resource-book/lesson-ideas/profanity?lang=eng, last accessed September 25, 2017.

A few million years ago, when I was still an undergrad and dinosaurs still roamed the earth, I was working as an intern in Dixie College's (now Dixie State University) Public Relations office, and my boss gave me a project which would extend into the summer and would extend my stay after graduation, which meant I had to find alternate accommodations off campus.  My roommates were my polar opposites: They were into everything I eschewed as a Good Mormon boy ... alcohol, pornography, and a few other things.  

Of course, their language contained terms that, ummm, let's just say I was unlikely to hear at General Conference.  I quickly realized that preaching wasn't going to do the trick, so I decided to resort to humor instead: Even though I consider profanity no laughing matter, I knew the Soapbox Approach would simply open me up to scorn and ridicule ... and it was unlikely to change anything, besides.  One of my roommates was fond of using the Savior's name as an epithet anytime something happened which he didn't like.  The next time he did so, good-naturedly, I said, "Don't blame Him.  It's not His fault."  He was confused, "What?  Don't blame who?"  I said, "Jesus Christ.  Don't blame Him. He didn't have anything to do with it."  I could tell he thought I was a few fries short of a Happy Meal, but I could also tell that anytime he used the Savior's name as an epithet after that, at least he didn't do so without thinking, as he'd done so many times previously.  

Growing up in SLC, surrounded by G.A.s and their families, I was witness many times to G.A.s' swearing.  Kids will be kids and G.A.'s get frustrated for sure.  My brother heard one of the first presidency take the lord's name in vain as he was running out of his house to correct the gardeners who were doing something wrong or against his wishes, apparently.  My mission president told me, probably because he knew where I grew up and maybe wanted me to relay his concerns, told me of the time that he got a real expletive laced chewing out by an apostle.  My pres wasn't too happy about it but it was a tense situation.  A missionary had died because the missionary, who could not swim, went out on this rocky area and got swept away into the ocean and drowned.  So, of course the apostle was upset and should have been.  It happens to the best of us.

[Scott Lloyd]

9 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Having taught in the public schools for 42 years, I enjoyed the puerile talk, humor, gestures, innuendo, graffiti, insults, and behavior on a daily basis. All that stuff the kids did in school is called "adult" by adults who do it. I have never understood what is "adult" about "adult" language, behavior, and entertainment. Why can adults drop f-bombs with impunity but kids get sent to the principal? It's one of the great mysteries of life. 

 

No great mystery here. It's common, garden-variety hypocrisy.

[SmileyMcGee]

53 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Francis Ford Coppola as arbiter of proper expression?

G Washington, T Rosevelt, D McKay, S Kimball and...........Francis Ford Coppola?  

Forgive me, i forgot that words can only validly express one's beliefs and opinions if those words were first spoken by the "right" source. 

Edited September 25, 2017 by SmileyMcGee

[Bernard Gui]

19 minutes ago, SmileyMcGee said:

Forgive me, i forgot that words can only validly express one's beliefs and opinions if those words were first spoken by the "right" source. 

Which, of course, is not what I said. I don't look on Coppola as an arbiter of pretty much anything worthwhile just because he makes movies.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[e-eye]

4 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

Sports are supposed to teach discipline and teamwork. In football the 11  become one. There is no I in team.

There may be no i but what about the other things found it team:  me, am, eat, meat, tea,  - you still have problems with selfishness and you can add the word of wisdom too.  

[SmileyMcGee]

4 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Which, of course, is not what I said. I don't look on Coppola as an arbiter of pretty much anything worthwhile just because he makes movies.

Then why draw the comparison in the first place?

[Bernard Gui]

36 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

No great mystery here. It's common, garden-variety hypocrisy.

Well, when profanity becomes common-place, even expected, then it loses its potency, no? What used to be the mother of all bombs has now become the go-to favorite in all situations, producing more yawns than hands upraised in horror. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be another one waiting in the wings. Or maybe that's a good thing.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

2 minutes ago, SmileyMcGee said:

Then why draw the comparison in the first place?

Because this is a discussion board and I'm all for discussing, not cussing. Do you think we should take our cultural and moral cues from folks like Coppola or from folks like Washington, Roosevelt, McKay, and Kimball?

 

Edited September 25, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[Kenngo1969]

35 minutes ago, Pete Ahlstrom said:

Growing up in SLC, surrounded by G.A.s and their families, I was witness many times to G.A.s' swearing.  Kids will be kids and G.A.'s get frustrated for sure.  My brother heard one of the first presidency take the lord's name in vain as he was running out of his house to correct the gardeners who were doing something wrong or against his wishes, apparently.  My mission president told me, probably because he knew where I grew up and maybe wanted me to relay his concerns, told me of the time that he got a real expletive laced chewing out by an apostle.  My pres wasn't too happy about it but it was a tense situation.  A missionary had died because the missionary, who could not swim, went out on this rocky area and got swept away into the ocean and drowned.  So, of course the apostle was upset and should have been.  It happens to the best of us.

There is an ideal, and there are often-abortive attempts to live up to an ideal, even by "the best" of us.  Some say that those who espouse certain ideals (whatever they are and wherever they come from, whether from a faith tradition, from some other organization which is steeped in tradition, or from somewhere else entirely) and then fail to live up to those ideals are hypocrites.  I agree.  Anyone who espouses an ideal and then fails to live up to that ideal ... a list which, at one time or another and to one degree or another, includes all of us ... is a hypocrite.  Welcome to the human race.  But the good news is the God in whom I believe is capable of saving even hypocrites.  Some say that the solution to the problem of ideals not lived up to is to throw out the ideals as pasado de moda, as tres passe, as not in keeping with "the times."  I disagree.  The solution to the problem of ideals not lived up to is to recommit ourselves to living up to the ideal anytime we fall short. You may disagree, and that's fine, but I think that remaking such a commitment any time we fall short is the best way ... indeed, it may be the only way ... to ensure that we can sleep well each night and that we can look ourselves in the eye every morning.

Your mileage likely varies.  To each, his own.  I wish you well.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Kenngo1969

[Kenngo1969]

3 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Because this is a discussion board and I'm all for discussing, not cussing.

I agree!  I think all of us should do our best to do our discussin' without any cussin'!  (I don't always do the best at that.   Sorry! ) 

[Pete Ahlstrom]

5 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

There is an ideal, and there are often-abortive attempts to live up to an ideal, even by "the best" of us.  Some say that those who espouse certain ideals (whatever they are and wherever they come from, whether from a faith tradition, from some other organization which is steeped in tradition, or from somewhere else entirely) and then fail to live up to those ideals are hypocrites.  I agree.  Anyone who espouses an ideal and then fails to live up to that ideal ... a list which, at one time or another and to one degree or another, includes all of us ... is a hypocrite.  Welcome to the human race.  Some say that the solution to the problem of ideals not lived up to is to throw out the ideals as pasado de moda, as tres passe, as not in keeping with "the times."  I disagree.  The solution to the problem of ideals not lived up to is to recommit ourselves to living up to the ideal anytime we fall short. You may disagree, and that's fine, but I think that remaking such a commitment any time we fall short is the best way ... indeed, it may be the only way ... to ensure that we can sleep well each night and that we can look ourselves in the eye every morning.

Your mileage likely varies.  To each, his own.  I wish you well.

My point is that the best of us make mistakes and so we should give bronco a break like we should give others a break

[Bernard Gui]

This thread raises a related question I have had for a long time.

When friends and relatives move away from the "conservative," "orthodox," "chapel," "traditional" Mormonism either through disaffection, disillusionment, or even complete apostasy, the first things to be jettisoned and then embraced are the Church's emphasis on the Word of Wisdom, proper dress, and non-profane language. Moving on to those areas is worn almost as a badge of pride or honor and we who are left behind wallowing in our stodginess are admonished to "Come. Partake. See what you are missing." Why is that? 

[Bernard Gui]

1 minute ago, Pete Ahlstrom said:

My point is that the best of us make mistakes and so we should give bronco a break like we should give others a break

Indeed. The problems arise when we slip up and then that becomes a matter of celebration.

[Kenngo1969]

5 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

This thread raises a related question I have had for a long time.

When friends and relatives move away from the "conservative," "orthodox," "chapel," "traditional" Mormonism either through disaffection, disillusionment, or even complete apostasy, the first things to be jettisoned and then embraced are the Church's emphasis on the Word of Wisdom, proper dress, and non-profane language. Moving on to those areas is worn almost as a badge of pride or honor and we who are left behind wallowing in our stodginess are admonished to "Come. Partake. See what you are missing." Why is that? 

Misery loves company?