bsjkki Posted September 8, 2017 Posted September 8, 2017 (edited) This article in The Guardian is quite fascinating. What will our future devices be able to tell us about those we interact with that our human eyes miss? https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/sep/07/new-artificial-intelligence-can-tell-whether-youre-gay-or-straight-from-a-photograph. Will our smart phones someday turn into instant lie detectors? If it is proven men are 'born gay' would any church policies change? "The research found that gay men and women tended to have “gender-atypical” features, expressions and “grooming styles”, essentially meaning gay men appeared more feminine and vice versa. The data also identified certain trends, including that gay men had narrower jaws, longer noses and larger foreheads than straight men, and that gay women had larger jaws and smaller foreheads compared to straight women." ...broadly, that means “faces contain much more information about sexual orientation than can be perceived and interpreted by the human brain”, the authors wrote. ... In the Stanford study, the authors also noted that artificial intelligence could be used to explore links between facial features and a range of other phenomena, such as political views, psychological conditions or personality. This type of research further raises concerns about the potential for scenarios like the science-fiction movie Minority Report, in which people can be arrested based solely on the prediction that they will commit a crime. “AI can tell you anything about anyone with enough data,” said Brian Brackeen, CEO of Kairos, a face recognition company. “The question is as a society, do we want to know?” Edited September 8, 2017 by bsjkki
Bernard Gui Posted September 8, 2017 Posted September 8, 2017 (edited) Sounds akin to phrenology. http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/phrenology-chart-14-january-1840-a/1 http://www.timesandseasons.org/harchive/2004/05/josephs-phrenology-report/ All this revealed by the lumps on the head. Edited September 8, 2017 by Bernard Gui 2
Robert F. Smith Posted September 8, 2017 Posted September 8, 2017 (edited) B. Young on continuing revelation: "an eternity of cats, that have not yet escaped from the bag. Bless your souls, there is no end to them," "You will find that there will be cats and kittens leaping out of the bag continually." Edited September 9, 2017 by Robert F. Smith 4
thesometimesaint Posted September 8, 2017 Posted September 8, 2017 Some are always trying to find ways to diminish the other children of God.
carbon dioxide Posted September 8, 2017 Posted September 8, 2017 I don't know how reliable this technology is but even if there is some truth to it, think of how oppressive governments in the Middle East could use it to root out gays from their populations.
Robert F. Smith Posted September 8, 2017 Posted September 8, 2017 2 hours ago, thesometimesaint said: Some are always trying to find ways to diminish the other children of God. In case that was directed at the quotes I provided, those quotes were from Brigham Young on continuing revelation.
BlueDreams Posted September 8, 2017 Posted September 8, 2017 1 hour ago, carbon dioxide said: I don't know how reliable this technology is but even if there is some truth to it, think of how oppressive governments in the Middle East could use it to root out gays from their populations. Technology has a way of opening horrifying doors to social problems. For example something simple as an ultrasound machine is the main reason there's large sex disparities in India, China, and other asian countries. I find the technology itself limiting though. It focuses on a narrow band of the LGBT spectrum as well as only focusing on white people. Plus, though it has higher accuracy than people, it's still not THAT accurate. I honestly don't get the point of the research or the tech. With luv, BD 2
Daniel2 Posted September 8, 2017 Posted September 8, 2017 From the article: Artificial intelligence can accurately guess whether people are gay or straight based on photos of their faces, according to new research that suggests machines can have significantly better “gaydar” than humans. Weird. In my experience, there aren't any universal physical characteristics of individuals' face shapes that allow my gaydar to function... Rather, it's subtle movements... mostly around eye contact/aversion... That's why I don't believe gaydar works with static pictures---it requires an in-person interaction... at least, that's always been my experience.
gopher Posted September 8, 2017 Posted September 8, 2017 I don't know if they still do, but the CIA asks if you are gay during their polygraph before hiring. I sometimes got teased about being gay for being older and single. (Also, some think if you aren't a flaming heterosexual, you must be gay) I would point out that I passed a CIA polygraph test proving I wasn't gay. I'm interested in the AI/face recognition part of the study, but I don't think this is very useful. It's using photos from a dating site for people who have already identified themselves as either gay or straight. It'll be interesting when they test against subjects whose orientation is unknown to the researchers. 2
bsjkki Posted September 8, 2017 Author Posted September 8, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, carbon dioxide said: I don't know how reliable this technology is but even if there is some truth to it, think of how oppressive governments in the Middle East could use it to root out gays from their populations. That was one of the points made in the article. Technology and AI are progressing so quickly it makes sense to question the ethics of some applications. In 10 years, who knows what information we could have about someone at our fingertips instantaneously. Privacy rights in the technology age are a real concern. The article also pointed out the data is already available so how do you put the genie back in the bottle? " However, Kosinski tells The Economist, the research is not intended to be used to profile or “out” homosexual men and women. Rather, it is designed to demonstrate—or even warn—that technological advances can be used for such means, and could pose a threat to our privacy as information is so much more easily accessible digitally. The researchers argue the “digitalization of our lives and rapid progress in AI continues to erode the privacy of sexual orientation and other intimate traits.” https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ai-tell-apos-gay-artificial-101111248.html Edited September 8, 2017 by bsjkki
snowflake Posted September 8, 2017 Posted September 8, 2017 14 hours ago, bsjkki said: This article in The Guardian is quite fascinating. What will our future devices be able to tell us about those we interact with that our human eyes miss? https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/sep/07/new-artificial-intelligence-can-tell-whether-youre-gay-or-straight-from-a-photograph. Will our smart phones someday turn into instant lie detectors? If it is proven men are 'born gay' would any church policies change? "The research found that gay men and women tended to have “gender-atypical” features, expressions and “grooming styles”, essentially meaning gay men appeared more feminine and vice versa. The data also identified certain trends, including that gay men had narrower jaws, longer noses and larger foreheads than straight men, and that gay women had larger jaws and smaller foreheads compared to straight women." ...broadly, that means “faces contain much more information about sexual orientation than can be perceived and interpreted by the human brain”, the authors wrote. ... In the Stanford study, the authors also noted that artificial intelligence could be used to explore links between facial features and a range of other phenomena, such as political views, psychological conditions or personality. This type of research further raises concerns about the potential for scenarios like the science-fiction movie Minority Report, in which people can be arrested based solely on the prediction that they will commit a crime. “AI can tell you anything about anyone with enough data,” said Brian Brackeen, CEO of Kairos, a face recognition company. “The question is as a society, do we want to know?” This just proves that "gaydar" is a thing (rhymes with radar). Gaydar is when you can tell if someone is a homosexual just by looking at them, sorry to say that 81% accuracy rate for men is not very good if you ask me. A colleague I work with swears that her "gaydar" is much better...around 97%.
strappinglad Posted September 8, 2017 Posted September 8, 2017 Perhaps the Japanese habit of surgical masks in public will have a secondary function.
Kenngo1969 Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 3 hours ago, gopher said: ... I would point out that I passed a CIA polygraph test proving I wasn't gay. ... I don't care about your sexual orientation; you're my brother in Christ, regardless. However, the fact that you passed a polygraph proved ... that you could pass a polygraph, not necessarily that you were telling the truth when you answered the questions. 1
rodheadlee Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 On 9/7/2017 at 11:06 PM, bsjkki said: This article in The Guardian is quite fascinating. What will our future devices be able to tell us about those we interact with that our human eyes miss? https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/sep/07/new-artificial-intelligence-can-tell-whether-youre-gay-or-straight-from-a-photograph. Will our smart phones someday turn into instant lie detectors? If it is proven men are 'born gay' would any church policies change? "The research found that gay men and women tended to have “gender-atypical” features, expressions and “grooming styles”, essentially meaning gay men appeared more feminine and vice versa. The data also identified certain trends, including that gay men had narrower jaws, longer noses and larger foreheads than straight men, and that gay women had larger jaws and smaller foreheads compared to straight women." ...broadly, that means “faces contain much more information about sexual orientation than can be perceived and interpreted by the human brain”, the authors wrote. ... In the Stanford study, the authors also noted that artificial intelligence could be used to explore links between facial features and a range of other phenomena, such as political views, psychological conditions or personality. This type of research further raises concerns about the potential for scenarios like the science-fiction movie Minority Report, in which people can be arrested based solely on the prediction that they will commit a crime. “AI can tell you anything about anyone with enough data,” said Brian Brackeen, CEO of Kairos, a face recognition company. “The question is as a society, do we want to know?” I don't need A.I. to spot a gay guy a mile away. I suspect most guys can.
Rain Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 16 hours ago, bsjkki said: That was one of the points made in the article. Technology and AI are progressing so quickly it makes sense to question the ethics of some applications. In 10 years, who knows what information we could have about someone at our fingertips instantaneously. Privacy rights in the technology age are a real concern. The article also pointed out the data is already available so how do you put the genie back in the bottle? " However, Kosinski tells The Economist, the research is not intended to be used to profile or “out” homosexual men and women. Rather, it is designed to demonstrate—or even warn—that technological advances can be used for such means, and could pose a threat to our privacy as information is so much more easily accessible digitally. The researchers argue the “digitalization of our lives and rapid progress in AI continues to erode the privacy of sexual orientation and other intimate traits.” https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ai-tell-apos-gay-artificial-101111248.html How odd. They are doing research that will help those who want to be part of that threat to show that the threat is "easily accessible". 2
Amulek Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 (edited) On 9/8/2017 at 1:06 AM, bsjkki said: What will our future devices be able to tell us about those we interact with that our human eyes miss? Possibly all kinds of cool stuff, but most of it will probably just end up being advertising / spam (e.g., what kind of shoes they are wearing and where you can buy them). Quote Will our smart phones someday turn into instant lie detectors? Probably not phones, per se, but a wearable like the Google Goggles might be a possibility. Not sure that there is a big need for something like that though. Most people are pretty good at telling when someone is lying to them. Quote If it is proven men are 'born gay' would any church policies change? The church seems to accept the notion that people generally don't have much control over whom they are attracted to, and it doesn't seem like there are any significant policy changes on the horizon. I suppose you never know though. After all, we do believe that the Lord will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the kingdom of God. Quote Technology and AI are progressing so quickly it makes sense to question the ethics of some applications. I certainly don't dispute that, but I think we have to be wary of people using scare tactics to play on our emotions (though to be fair, they mostly just want to sensationalize stories so you will click on them - such is the digital media world we live in). Edited September 9, 2017 by Amulek typo 1
thesometimesaint Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 22 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: In case that was directed at the quotes I provided, those quotes were from Brigham Young on continuing revelation. It wasn't.
gopher Posted September 10, 2017 Posted September 10, 2017 21 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said: I don't care about your sexual orientation; you're my brother in Christ, regardless. However, the fact that you passed a polygraph proved ... that you could pass a polygraph, not necessarily that you were telling the truth when you answered the questions. It was interesting that the polygraph determined I wasn't being truthful on a few questions when I was completely honest. I think one was "Have you had any unreported contacts with a foreign government representative?” I had given them a list of every foreigner I knew, yet it still flagged it as a lie. So I guess I shouldn't be too confident on the questions where my answers were determined to be truthful. I haven't done much with AI since college, but I don't think AI will ever be able to predict 100% someone's sexual orientation. It's much to complex, inconsistent, fluid, etc. Years ago a sister in the ward told us that she and her husband were expecting their first child. The doctors told them they had detected the baby would be born with Down syndrome. They suggested she consider getting an abortion. Her non-member husband told her that he didn't think he could handle raising a handicapped child. She spent a lot of time in prayer and said she received an answer of comfort and peace to have the baby. Months after sharing this with the ward, the baby was born without Down syndrome. Technology is a great blessing in our lives, but it sure is nice when divine inspiration can take over when technology fails. 2
mfbukowski Posted September 10, 2017 Posted September 10, 2017 (edited) On 9/7/2017 at 11:28 PM, Bernard Gui said: Sounds akin to phrenology. http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/phrenology-chart-14-january-1840-a/1 http://www.timesandseasons.org/harchive/2004/05/josephs-phrenology-report/ All this revealed by the lumps on the head. So plain old humans can tell an amazing 61% of the time anyway, and this picks up differences we miss, but still is not close to perfect Oh yeah, so I am going to trust my cell phone to determine if someone is gay, so I can inaccurately discriminate against him, when I really don't care if he is gay anyway. Oh yeah, important stuff. Next time I am in market for a gay lover, (never) I will be sure to not use it because it doesn't work anyway. Edited September 10, 2017 by mfbukowski
Daniel2 Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 (edited) On 9/9/2017 at 6:07 AM, rodheadlee said: I don't need A.I. to spot a gay guy a mile away. I suspect most guys can. I hope you're aware that gay man are not always noticeably gay, just as straight men's mannerisms aren't always those traditionally-defined as 'masculine.' In other words, you may very well be able to spot some gay guys a mile away, but can completely miss the gays right next to you. Edited September 11, 2017 by Daniel2
clarkgoble Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 On 9/8/2017 at 0:28 AM, Bernard Gui said: Sounds akin to phrenology. Except in this case it has predictive power that can be tested whereas tests of phrenology didn't work. Of course 3rd parties haven't tested this yet as I understand it. I'd hope they'd separate out the elements that are due to social factors (dress, hair style) from those that are physical. The article and others I read emphasized the physical elements, but it's not clear what the neural net is using as it can be quite difficult to understand it's underlying logic. Put this one in the "suggestive but don't pin too much on it" category. The AI may simply be learning elements we're not conscious of but that are socially determined in the dating site for gay people. 1 hour ago, Daniel2 said: I hope you're aware that gay man are not always noticeably gay, just as straight men's mannerisms aren't always those traditionally-defined as 'masculine.' That's true, but this is biased by being a dating site with pictures designed to elicit a response from the desired partner. As such they probably don't represent the usual appearance of these people. 1
rodheadlee Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 2 hours ago, Daniel2 said: I hope you're aware that gay man are not always noticeably gay, just as straight men's mannerisms aren't always those traditionally-defined as 'masculine.' In other words, you may very well be able to spot some gay guys a mile away, but can completely miss the gays right next to you. I doubt it. My gaydar works pretty good.
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