JAHS Posted August 5, 2017 Posted August 5, 2017 2 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: 4 hours ago, JAHS said: It may be offensive but I choose to not be offended. I will simply ignore it and not waste any money on it. Telling everyone how offensive it is will only serve to increase its popularity and patronage. I disagree. There's no foul in calling out bigotry. If only on this board and fellow members, I agree.
Kenngo1969 Posted August 5, 2017 Posted August 5, 2017 7 minutes ago, Amulek said: .... But if you want to start having a broader discussion about the overarching message of the film, what the director knows about the subject matter or what he was trying to portray, etc. then yeah - I think it's going to be hard to do that without actually having seen the film. Not at all.
Bernard Gui Posted August 5, 2017 Author Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, strappinglad said: You may have noticed that what passes for high brow entertainment today is basically just mockery raised to an art form. Most if not all current talk shows MUST ridicule something or someone and the laugh track is on full time. Even the news programs stoop to that level for ratings ( what else?) . President " shoots from the hip and hits his own foot" has become the target of mercilous ribbing and mocking ( with cause? ). Look at the comments section of many sites and see just how vile the language and attitudes are in public. Mockery, sarcasm, and profanity are the easiest and cheapest forms of comedy. Edited August 5, 2017 by Bernard Gui 3
Bernard Gui Posted August 5, 2017 Author Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Amulek said: I think it's going to be hard to do that without actually having seen the film. I have not seen the play, but I have read the script, listened to the soundtrack and watched YouTube videos of the songs and choreography, and read several dozen reviews and synopses. I would never pay to see the thing. My interest is not only as a Mormon but as an orchestra director and violinist in professional, school, community, and college musical productions. I do not for a minute buy the hype that has accompanied this awful show. It is mediocre drama, comedy, and music at best. It is lauded for only one reason. Edited August 5, 2017 by Bernard Gui 3
Bernard Gui Posted August 5, 2017 Author Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) 32 minutes ago, JAHS said: If only on this board and fellow members, I agree. It's obviously a pet peeve. I'll cop to that. I regularly post comments in newspapers that tout its glories when it comes to their towns. Many people on those comment pages have expressed their dismay at the lyrics of some of the songs when they have seen them in print, before seeing the show. If they still choose to go, so be it. They are free to choose. But there is nothing wrong with exposing it for what it is. Edited August 5, 2017 by Bernard Gui 1
Amulek Posted August 5, 2017 Posted August 5, 2017 5 hours ago, pogi said: Holly crap!!! 11? 11? That is only turning it up to 11??? That is more like turning it up to 99.9 out of 10. I honestly don't know if there is anything more foul and loathsome that could be said about my God in the name of "satire". I literally feel like vomiting, and I am not a thin-skinned person. If I am offended at this, am I in the wrong because it is only "satire"? You are free to be offended by whatever offends you. I suspect that most Latter-day Saints would find the show offensive. The point I was trying to get at though is that if you know something is intended to be offensive, then that understanding should make it easier to brush it off. You know, like when you were a kid and your brother or sister kept putting their hand or leg on your side of the car. Do you just get angry at them and escalate, or do you recognize what they are doing and refuse to take the bait.
Amulek Posted August 5, 2017 Posted August 5, 2017 3 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: Quote I haven't seen the musical, but one of my friends in my ward thought it was largely enjoyable as far as entertainment goes. Your friend is LDS? Yes. Lifelong member, active, fulfills callings, etc.
Amulek Posted August 5, 2017 Posted August 5, 2017 3 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: Right. That's the motto of the JDL. JDL?
Bernard Gui Posted August 5, 2017 Author Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Amulek said: Yes. Lifelong member, active, fulfills callings, etc. Remarkable. I would like to hear his/her assessment of Hasa Diga Eebowai. Could you inquire? Edited August 5, 2017 by Bernard Gui
Bernard Gui Posted August 5, 2017 Author Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Amulek said: JDL? That extremist right-wing (according to some) group that ferrets out anti-semitism. The Jewish version of the Danites. My attempt at cheap sarcastic humor. Edited August 5, 2017 by Bernard Gui 1
Robert F. Smith Posted August 5, 2017 Posted August 5, 2017 10 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: I really cannot understand why any Mormon would pay hundreds of dollars to see this. And then to say they found it sweet and entertaining is beyond my ken. there's no accounting for taste. 1
Stargazer Posted August 5, 2017 Posted August 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said: I would like to see evidence that it has been a positive for the Church, that people came away loving and respecting the Church more, that people have joined the Church because of it. So would I, actually. There's some stories out there, but I don't know how much credence to give the whole thing.
sjdawg Posted August 5, 2017 Posted August 5, 2017 13 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: Never underestimate the debasement of American pop culture. BOMTM is back in SLC in all its obscene, bigoted, juvenile splendor - as if this were some grand achievement- sticking it in the eye of the Mormons on their turf, speaking truth to the power of the Brethren, testing how open-minded the Saints are, daring the prigs to object, whatever. Have you seen the BOM Musical? I have and while I agree that it is crude it is also a fantastic entertaining show. Yes, they do poke fun at Mormonism but I was also surprised that it did contain a good message in the end.
cinepro Posted August 5, 2017 Posted August 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said: I have not seen the play, but I have read the script, listened to the soundtrack and watched YouTube videos of the songs and choreography, and read several dozen reviews and synopses. I would never pay to see the thing. My interest is not only as a Mormon but as an orchestra director and violinist in professional, school, community, and college musical productions. I do not for a minute buy the hype that has accompanied this awful show. It is mediocre drama, comedy, and music at best. It is lauded for only one reason. That's what mystifies me as well. I love Broadway musicals (I'll be seeing Hamilton twice this fall in LA), I think South Park is frequently brilliant, and I'm obviously way into Mormon culture. So I would have expected this play to be the most amazing thing I've ever seen. It's like it was made specifically with me in mind. But since the first time I listened to the soundtrack when it was first released, I've been completely underwhelmed. I've watched a bootleg video of the production, read the book behind the production and listened to the songs a few times more, and while there are a few songs and moments that make me chuckle, I cannot understand what so many people see in it. If ever in my life I feel like I'm experiencing "the Emperor's New Clothes", this is it. 2
sjdawg Posted August 5, 2017 Posted August 5, 2017 8 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said: One of the points I make in the link I posted earlier is that good satire makes at least a minimal effort to understand its subject as insiders understand it. I haven't seen the show (not because I'm thin-skinned, but it's the kind of thing about which I would say to myself, "Well, there go 2 1/2 hours of my life I'll never get back" ), but it doesn't seem as though its creators made much of an effort to understand their subject as insiders understand it. I disagree. I think they understood the subject quite well.
sunstoned Posted August 5, 2017 Posted August 5, 2017 13 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865686065/Theater-review-The-Book-of-Mormon-brings-cringes-laughs-to-the-Eccles-Theater.html Never underestimate the debasement of American pop culture. BOMTM is back in SLC in all its obscene, bigoted, juvenile splendor - as if this were some grand achievement- sticking it in the eye of the Mormons on their turf, speaking truth to the power of the Brethren, testing how open-minded the Saints are, daring the prigs to object, whatever. But I really had to laugh at this. Of all the things a Mormon might find offensive in this monumental piece of puerility, well....I'm speechless. Enjoyed the singing? Did she listen to the lyrics? My oh my. Have you seen the play? I have not seen it yet, but I do have tickets for next week. I am going to withhold judgement until after I have seen it.
Stargazer Posted August 5, 2017 Posted August 5, 2017 2 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: I recall it being very popular with members of the Church. Not sure who was protesting it. Just something cinepro said.
Bernard Gui Posted August 5, 2017 Author Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) 37 minutes ago, sunstoned said: Have you seen the play? I have not seen it yet, but I do have tickets for next week. I am going to withhold judgement until after I have seen it. As I said above... Quote I have not seen the play, but I have read the script, listened to the soundtrack and watched YouTube videos of the songs and choreography, and read several dozen reviews and synopses. I would never pay to see the thing. My interest is not only as a Mormon but as an orchestra director and violinist in professional, school, community, and college musical productions. I do not for a minute buy the hype that has accompanied this awful show. It is mediocre drama, comedy, and music at best. It is lauded for only one reason. Hope you enjoy the show. Perhaps there is a homeless shelter somewhere that could use the money more than Parker, Lopez, et al. Edited August 5, 2017 by Bernard Gui 1
Bernard Gui Posted August 5, 2017 Author Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said: there's no accounting for taste. Indeed. Some must have had their tastebuds shot off in the war. Edited August 5, 2017 by Bernard Gui 2
Bernard Gui Posted August 5, 2017 Author Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) 46 minutes ago, sjdawg said: Have you seen the BOM Musical? I have and while I agree that it is crude it is also a fantastic entertaining show. Yes, they do poke fun at Mormonism but I was also surprised that it did contain a good message in the end. Fantastic entertainment? Good message? Glad you enjoyed it. Edited August 5, 2017 by Bernard Gui
Bernard Gui Posted August 5, 2017 Author Posted August 5, 2017 40 minutes ago, cinepro said: That's what mystifies me as well. I love Broadway musicals (I'll be seeing Hamilton twice this fall in LA), I think South Park is frequently brilliant, and I'm obviously way into Mormon culture. So I would have expected this play to be the most amazing thing I've ever seen. It's like it was made specifically with me in mind. But since the first time I listened to the soundtrack when it was first released, I've been completely underwhelmed. I've watched a bootleg video of the production, read the book behind the production and listened to the songs a few times more, and while there are a few songs and moments that make me chuckle, I cannot understand what so many people see in it. If ever in my life I feel like I'm experiencing "the Emperor's New Clothes", this is it. Thank you for the comments. It's not that often we see eye to eye. Maybe we could share a ginger beer some time. 1
Bernard Gui Posted August 5, 2017 Author Posted August 5, 2017 46 minutes ago, sjdawg said: I disagree. I think they understood the subject quite well. Which, if true, makes it all the more sad. Knowing about something is not the same as understanding it. 1
Kenngo1969 Posted August 5, 2017 Posted August 5, 2017 5 hours ago, sunstoned said: Have you seen the play? I have not seen it yet, but I do have tickets for next week. I am going to withhold judgement until after I have seen it. Read the script, listened to all the numbers, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera should count for . . . something. 2
mrmarklin Posted August 5, 2017 Posted August 5, 2017 10 hours ago, Stargazer said: This makes me want to visit Wales even more!!! And in a month or two, I will! I've been. It's delightful. 1
Amulek Posted August 5, 2017 Posted August 5, 2017 8 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: Remarkable. I would like to hear his/her assessment of Hasa Diga Eebowai. Could you inquire? It's been a while since we talked about it, but I don't remember him mentioning that piece at all. Is that supposed to be the signature song or something? I think it would be strange for me to ask him about this, specifically, out of the blue. But if the subject comes up again, I'll try to remember to ask.
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