BoM The Musical in SLC

[Bernard Gui]

6 hours ago, Gray said:

I'll reveal myself to be uncultured and admit I feel the same about all musical theater.

Just went to a community dinner theater production of "The King and I." $50 for two tickets and a catered dinner plus I got to spend the night out with Sister Gui. Now that was sweet!

[Bernard Gui]

8 hours ago, Amulek said:

I haven't seen the musical, but one of my friends in my ward thought it was largely enjoyable as far as entertainment goes.

Your friend is LDS?

 

Edited August 5, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

5 hours ago, cinepro said:

I'm not surprised by her comment.  If there's anything Mormons hate, it's caricatures of the missionaries as naive and over-zealous.  Remember the controversies and protests when this play was making the rounds several decades ago?

Indeed. None of the awful offal in the songs and dialogue even approaches the offenses of lampooning missionaries. A line must be drawn somewhere.

[Bernard Gui]

5 hours ago, Amulek said:

I am aware of thy lyrics. They are vulgar and irreverent - definitely not the sort of fare that most Latter-day Saints can stomach. 

But what comes to my mind more than anything is the saying that goes something like "It's a fool who takes offense where none is intended, but it's a greater fool who takes offense where offense IS intended."

Stuff like this ought to roll of the Latter-day Saints like water off a duck's back. 

Right. That's the motto of the JDL.

At my age, I've been fooled enough to know when the other side is not fooling.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

One of the points I make in the link I posted earlier is that good satire makes at least a minimal effort to understand its subject as insiders understand it.  I haven't seen the show (not because I'm thin-skinned, but it's the kind of thing about which I would say to myself, "Well, there go 2 1/2 hours of my life I'll never get back" ), but it doesn't seem as though its creators made much of an effort to understand their subject as insiders understand it.

Actually, the writers understand the Church well enough to make some really really really nasty digs that go well beyond satire into outright bigotry. And then they have the gall to say it's a love letter to Mormons. Cynicism at its finest. http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/south-park-creators-defend-musical-book-mormon/story?id=13214753

Edited August 5, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[JAHS]

1 hour ago, Snigmorder said:

I doubt their patrons reads this site anyways.

In that case yes, I am offended too. ;-)

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, Amulek said:

This makes me think of the following exchange from The Black Adder...

 

Percy: You know, they do say that the Infanta's eyes are more beautiful than the famous Stone of Galveston.

Edmund: Mm! ... What?

Percy: The famous Stone of Galveston, My Lord.

Edmund: And what's that, exactly?

Percy: Well, it's a famous blue stone, and it comes (points dramatically) from Galveston.

Edmund: I see. And what about it?

Percy: Well, My Lord, the Infanta's eyes are bluer than it, for a start.

Edmund: I see. And have you ever seen this stone?

Percy: (nods) No, not as such, My Lord, but I know a couple of people who have, and they say it's very very blue indeed.

Edmund: And have these people seen the Infanta's eyes?

Percy: No, I shouldn't think so, My Lord.

Edmund: And neither have you, presumably.

Percy: No, My Lord.

Edmund: So, what you're telling me, Percy, is that something you have never seen is slightly less blue than something else you have never seen.

Percy: (finally begins to grasp) Yes, My Lord.

Which makes me think of this.

Blackadder: Have you ever been to Wales, Baldrick? 
Baldrick: No, but I've often thought I'd like to. 
Blackadder: Well don't. It's a ghastly place. Huge gangs of tough, sinewy men roam the Valleys, terrorizing people with their close-harmony singing. You need half a pint of phlegm in your throat just to pronounce the place names. Never ask for directions in Wales, Baldrick. You'll be washing spit out of your hair for a fortnight.

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I know you are being tongue in cheek but there is a difference. The people who wrote Saturday's Warriors had something to say beneath the silliness.

The writers of the musical do not. There is no redeeming value underneath it all. Should not be surprised. They wrote South Park, a show that focuses its cynicism on everything with nothing underneath. Compare it to cartoons like the Simpsons or King of the Hill or Futurama that are definitely caricatures and satire but manage to have some heart underneath it all. On some level you can care about the characters who retain a sense of humanity.

In South Park and this drek there is nothing like that. It is morally nihilistic. Better shows suggest that things are ridiculous but life is worth living while they are stuck with an "everything sucks and nothing has any value" theme. Yuck.

 

It is an emperor with no clothes, but the clothes are truly majestic.

 

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, pogi said:

Holly crap!!! 

11? 11? That is only turning it up to 11???  That is more like turning it up to 99.9 out of 10.  I honestly don't know if there is anything more foul and loathsome that could be said about my God in the name of "satire".  I literally feel like vomiting, and I am not a thin-skinned person. 

If I am offended at this, am I in the wrong because it is only "satire"? 

Well, there it is. I only alluded to the lyrics and provided a link, but there they are in all their glory, and those aren't even the worse.

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, JAHS said:

It may be offensive but I choose to not be offended.  I will simply ignore it and not waste any money on it. Telling everyone how offensive it is will only serve to increase its popularity and patronage.

I disagree. There's no foul in calling out bigotry. 

[SteveO]

I'll say they are brave and edgy once they do "The Koran: The Musical".

 

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, Snigmorder said:

I doubt their patrons reads this site anyways.

Of course not, but that's not the point. In the OP Deseret News review a supposedly good Mormon thought the singing and dancing were great, but the portrayal of missionaries as duffuses was offensive. Seriously?

The reviewer used the same words that have become a cliche in all BOMTM reviews...it is "irreverent and edgy, but it is a "sweet show," a "love-letter" to Mormons. Someone reading that and all other reviews I have seen would come away thinking it was a romp through South Park and all in good respectful fun. No, it's not.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

3 minutes ago, SteveO said:

I'll say they are brave and edgy once they do "The Koran: The Musical".

 

It will never happen. There are limits to pop culture courage. The Mormons are an easy target.

[Stargazer]

7 hours ago, cinepro said:

I'm not surprised by her comment.  If there's anything Mormons hate, it's caricatures of the missionaries as naive and over-zealous.  Remember the controversies and protests when this play was making the rounds several decades ago?

Really?  I saw Saturday's Warrior in Los Angeles back in 1974.  I thought it was delightful!  Didn't see any protests -- it looked like every Latter-day Saint in Southern California was thrilled with it.  What protests did you see?

[Stargazer]

3 hours ago, JAHS said:

It may be offensive but I choose to not be offended.  I will simply ignore it and not waste any money on it. Telling everyone how offensive it is will only serve to increase its popularity and patronage.

That much is certain.

[Stargazer]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Which makes me think of this.

Blackadder: Have you ever been to Wales, Baldrick? 
Baldrick: No, but I've often thought I'd like to. 
Blackadder: Well don't. It's a ghastly place. Huge gangs of tough, sinewy men roam the Valleys, terrorizing people with their close-harmony singing. You need half a pint of phlegm in your throat just to pronounce the place names. Never ask for directions in Wales, Baldrick. You'll be washing spit out of your hair for a fortnight.

This makes me want to visit Wales even more!!!

And in a month or two, I will!

[Kenngo1969]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Which makes me think of this.

Blackadder: Have you ever been to Wales, Baldrick? 
Baldrick: No, but I've often thought I'd like to. 
Blackadder: Well don't. It's a ghastly place. Huge gangs of tough, sinewy men roam the Valleys, terrorizing people with their close-harmony singing. You need half a pint of phlegm in your throat just to pronounce the place names. Never ask for directions in Wales, Baldrick. You'll be washing spit out of your hair for a fortnight.

 

[Stargazer]

56 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

It will never happen. There are limits to pop culture courage. The Mormons are an easy target.

Yes, Allahu Akbar and so on. 

I'm with you when it comes to paying to watch something like this, but the Church's response, which has been described as "measured" -- and the ads the Church has placed in the playbill, which in fact help to finance the play -- make me wonder if we are making more out of this than we ought to be making.  The musical may, in fact, be doing us a backhanded favor.

A good summary of the Church's reaction and the musical's creator's reaction is found in the Wikipedia entry for this musical. Here's a small excerpt from that section of the article, about the Church's reaction:

The response of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to the musical has been described as "measured." The church released an official response to inquiries regarding the musical, stating, "The production may attempt to entertain audiences for an evening, but the Book of Mormon as a volume of scripture will change people's lives forever by bringing them closer to Christ." Michael Otterson, the head of Public Affairs for the church, followed in April 2011 with measured criticism. "Of course, parody isn't reality, and it's the very distortion that makes it appealing and often funny. The danger is not when people laugh but when they take it seriously—if they leave a theater believing that Mormons really do live in some kind of a surreal world of self-deception and illusion," Otterson wrote, outlining various humanitarian efforts achieved by Mormon missionaries in Africa since the early 2000s. Stone and Parker were unsurprised:

The official church response was something along the lines of "The Book of Mormon the musical might entertain you for a night, but the Book of Mormon,"—the book as scripture—"will change your life through Jesus." Which we actually completely agree with. The Mormon church's response to this musical is almost like our Q.E.D. at the end of it. That's a cool, American response to a ribbing—a big musical that's done in their name. Before the church responded, a lot of people would ask us, "Are you afraid of what the church would say?" And Trey and I were like, "They're going to be cool." And they were like, "No, they're not. There are going to be protests." And we were like, "Nope, they're going to be cool." We weren't that surprised by the church's response. We had faith in them.

The LDS Church has advertised in the playbills at many of the musical's venues to encourage attendees to learn more about the Book of Mormon, with phrases like "you've seen the play, now read the book" and "the book is always better."

The article quotes Josh Gad, the actor who played Elder Cunningham in the original production, as saying that in the time he had been playing the part, no believing Mormon had complained to him, and he knew of many people (he said "a dozen") who had ended up joining the Church as a result of having seen the musical. I don't know how accurate that claim is.

I shall not praise the musical, but I shall not mount a demonstration over it, either. 

Matt Stone, one of the show's creators, described The Book of Mormon as "an atheist's love letter to religion."  I wonder what an atheist's polemic against religion would look like? 

Oh, wait.  I guess that's been done already.  "God is Not Great - How Religion Poisons Everything" by Christopher Hitchens.

 

 

[Bernard Gui]

49 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

That much is certain.

It has already made its producers rich many times over and received the highest accolades, repeated tours, etc., etc. Drawing attention to it now won't make it more popular. But pointing out the falsehoods in reviews and exposing the lyrics for what they are may prevent some unsuspecting Mormon from going. Or not. 

[Bernard Gui]

57 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Really?  I saw Saturday's Warrior in Los Angeles back in 1974.  I thought it was delightful!  Didn't see any protests -- it looked like every Latter-day Saint in Southern California was thrilled with it.  What protests did you see?

I recall it being very popular with members of the Church. Not sure who was protesting it.

[Bernard Gui]

20 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

The musical may, in fact, be doing us a backhanded favor.

The article quotes Josh Gad, the actor who played Elder Cunningham in the original production, as saying that in the time he had been playing the part, no believing Mormon had complained to him, and he knew of many people (he said "a dozen") who had ended up joining the Church as a result of having seen the musical. I don't know how accurate that claim is.

I would like to see evidence that it has been a positive for the Church, that people came away loving and respecting the Church more, that people have joined the Church because of it. 

Edited August 5, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[Kenngo1969]

7 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I would like to see evidence that it has been a positive for the Church, that people came away loving and respecting the Church more, that people have joined the Church because of it. 

It's a stretch to say this gentleman joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints because of the musical, but it would also be an oversimplication to say that the play had nothing to do with his conversion:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865579813/Inspired-question-Book-of-Mormon-musical-leads-to-former-California-mayors-conversion.html

[Kenngo1969]

2 hours ago, SteveO said:

I'll say they are brave and edgy once they do "The Koran: The Musical".

 

Interesting you should mention that.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/328163/bowing-mob-mark-steyn

[Amulek]

5 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I don't need to become a murderer to understand all of the reasons why I might not want to be one.

Well, we aren't talking about murder; we're talking about a raunchy musical. I think, perhaps, a more apt analogy would be an R rated film. You don't generally need to see an R rated film to know  it's going to contain content you might find objectionable. You can read reviews, parent guides, etc. to get an idea of what sort of specific things are in it even. But if you want to start having a broader discussion about the overarching message of the film, what the director knows about the subject matter or what he was trying to portray, etc. then yeah - I think it's going to be hard to do that without actually having seen the film. 

[strappinglad]

You may have noticed that what passes for high brow entertainment today is basically just mockery raised to an art form. Most if not all current talk shows MUST ridicule something or someone and the laugh track is on full time. Even the news programs stoop to that level for ratings ( what else?) . President " shoots from the hip and hits his own foot" has become the target of mercilous ribbing and mocking ( with cause? ). Look at the comments section of many sites and see just how vile the language and attitudes are in public.