Vestibular conditions and florescent lighting in church buildings

[rpn]

I am aware of members who cannot participate in meetings or activities at church because the florescent lighting triggers their medical conditions.   I am wondering if anyone has any contacts with facilities people who could set up a procedure for retrofitting buildings or at least the RS and a portion of the chapel as an accommodation for such members.   Or have any other suggestions for not perpetuating the problem in new buildings.   I've thought that since the church has said they were building new buildings to be LEED compliant that there would be LED lights and that would solve the problem.   But our just dedicated chapel still has florescent lights.

(The suggestion made by leaders so far have been to wear a mask and use a cane to come to church.   We don't know if they'll consider videoconferencing, but that does make it hard to have relationships.  Drs suggest that putting chairs so they face away from the lights can help, but the way the lights are in churches makes that not really a possibility: their everywhere.

[RevTestament]

Some florescent fixtures can be retrofitted with LED designed for the purpose - which of course are generally expensive. I feel the best solution is to make a smaller room such as the Relief Society Room LED, but then you run into the problem of multiple ward use. Perhaps LED lighting in the foyer which also usually has natural light from the doors would be adequate?

Would limiting yourself to the foyer seem too exclusive? What do such persons do about SS and other meetings?

[SeekerB]

I've never heard of this condition before. What do these people do in Wal-Mart, the grocery store, and practically every place else? 

[bluebell]

I'd like to get rid of fluorescent lighting just for the aesthetics. 

But it would be hard if it caused medical conditions. 

[Okrahomer]

4 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

Some florescent fixtures can be retrofitted with LED designed for the purpose - which of course are generally expensive. I feel the best solution is to make a smaller room such as the Relief Society Room LED, but then you run into the problem of multiple ward use. Perhaps LED lighting in the foyer which also usually has natural light from the doors would be adequate?

Would limiting yourself to the foyer seem too exclusive? What do such persons do about SS and other meetings?

I recently retrofitted a fluorescent fixture in my wife's office, because a member of her staff was suffering from headaches she thought were the result of fluorescent flickering--not to mention the constant "buzz."  

It wasn't difficult to make the retrofit; although, it was mildly expensive. The good news:  this staff member isn't complaining about headaches anymore.  The color is much more natural (not so blue) and there is zero flickering or buzz.  LED's are also more energy efficient than fluorescents.

[Duncan]

I think their is a way to contact your PM group people, you can take a picture of the problem and it gets sent to a couple of people and hopefully it'll get taken care of. Issues like this though probably need stake pres. approval but hopefully it'll get worked out

[deli_llama]

1 hour ago, SeekerB said:

I've never heard of this condition before. What do these people do in Wal-Mart, the grocery store, and practically every place else? 

Fluorescent lights, especially poorly maintained fluorescent lights, can flicker at a rate that might not necessarily be detected by the eye but can cause seizures.  One condition is called Photosensitive epilepsy (PSE). Places like Walmart can be particularly aggravating. Solutions on how people handle places like that will depend on the individual and the specifics of their condition. When my seizures were at their worse I completely avoided places like that for my own safety. Basically it just complicates life.

Fluorescent lights can also trigger Migraines and its complete troupe of pleasant traveling companions like Nausea, Dizzy, and Aura. 

I am sure there are other conditions, but those are probably the big two. 

Edited June 21, 2017 by deli_llama

[rpn]

The member in this case offered to pay for different lighting in the building as it was being designed,and has offered to pay for a retrofit since the ward moved in.   Can't get local traction.  So I'm trying to figure if there is something from a different angle.   Or something to prevent this issue in any other new building for someone else. 

And those who have this problem (often after an auto accident) don't go in stores often either.

Edited June 21, 2017 by rpn

[rpn]

4 hours ago, bluebell said:

I'd like to get rid of fluorescent lighting just for the aesthetics. 

But it would be hard if it caused medical conditions. 

Not it is the fluorescents that cause/exacerbate the medical issues.

[Calm]

23 minutes ago, rpn said:

The member in this case offered to pay for different lighting in the building as it was being designed,and has offered to pay for a retrofit since the ward moved in.   Can't get local traction.  So I'm trying to figure if there is something from a different angle.   Or something to prevent this issue in any other new building for someone else. 

And those who have this problem (often after an auto accident) don't go in stores often either.

There is a building supervising office located at Church Headquarters (assuming my info is not out of date).  I knew the man called to the position 30 years ago, in-law of my in-law.  If locals don't respond, perhaps they can help.  I assume it is under the Presiding Bishopric.  I will see if I can find anything more.

[mnn727]

never heard of this before -- How many people are affected by this?

If this is something that affects you or a family member I would write the Presiding Bishop if nothing local works.

[Calm]

Looks like the one you want is Meetinghouse Facilities Department.  https://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/08636_eng.pdf?lang=eng

Looking for contact info, will add if found.  If not, you could use the "contact us/feedback option" on LDS.org to ask for it.

No contact info yet, but this might be a helpful page to use the feedback service to ask for contact info:

https://www.lds.org/help/support/mobile-apps/facility-issue-reporting-fir?lang=eng

Edited June 21, 2017 by Calm

[Calm]

This looks like the correct site if you can use the service:

http://aec.ldschurch.org/aec/home/

[deli_llama]

22 minutes ago, mnn727 said:

never heard of this before -- How many people are affected by this?

Around 3% of those with epilepsy will have photosensitive epilepsy. I have seen other reports of it just a bit lower or higher. 

I don't know about any other conditions. Google?

[Calm]

Mailing addressing:

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Meetinghouse Facilities Department
50 East North Temple
Salt Lake City, Utah 84150

Can't remove the space below Church, etc.

 

[mnn727]

28 minutes ago, deli_llama said:

Around 3% of those with epilepsy will have photosensitive epilepsy. I have seen other reports of it just a bit lower or higher. 

I don't know about any other conditions. Google?

So 3 million Americans have Epilepsy, 3% of those or 90,000 have the sensitivity about 1% of the population of America is Mormon, so 900 possible people, of that lets say 50% are active, so 450 active Mormons have this condition. perhaps on a chapel by chapel basis, but certainly too expensive to do it Church wide, but perhaps when updating or on new buildings.

I'd throw a few $ into a local building fund to change a ward building that has someone who suffers from it.

 

[deli_llama]

2 minutes ago, mnn727 said:

So 3 million Americans have Epilepsy, 3% of those or 90,000 have the sensitivity about 1% of the population of America is Mormon, so 900 possible people, of that lets say 50% are active, so 450 active Mormons have this condition. perhaps on a chapel by chapel basis, but certainly too expensive to do it Church wide, but perhaps when updating or on new buildings.

I'd throw a few $ into a local building fund to change a ward building that has someone who suffers from it.

 

Yep, local and according to need would probably be the most sensible thing. 

[rpn]

It isn't just those with epilepsy.  

Quote

One recent large epidemiological study estimates that as many as 35% of adults aged 40 years or older in the United States—approximately 69 million Americans—have experienced some form of vestibular dysfunction.¹ According to the National Institute on Deafness and Other Communication Disorders (NIDCD), a further 4% (8 million) of American adults report a chronic problem with balance, while an additional 1.1% (2.4 million) report a chronic problem with dizziness alone.² Eighty percent of people aged 65 years and older have experienced dizziness,³ and BPPV, the most common vestibular disorder, is the cause of approximately 50% of dizziness in older people.⁴ Overall, vertigo from a vestibular problem accounts for a third of all dizziness and vertigo symptoms reported to health care professionals.⁵   http://vestibular.org/understanding-vestibular-disorder

Not all such conditions have this component, and when the traumatic injury heals (if it was a car crash for instance) the issue may also go away.   There are three people in the specific congregation who are known to have the problem, but one of those only gets migraines that do not last long after leaving the lights, and another isn't as severely affected as the third, who cannot attend any at all without pain and not being able to function for as much as two weeks.  

And lots of those with sensory processing disorders also have trouble with fluorescents.

Thanks for the address and info.  I do think it it is an issue that should have a favorable cost benefit over time since LEDs don't cause the same problem and are increasingly more manageable expense wise (I recently purchased 60w LED bulbs for 1.50 a piece on Amazon), and save money on the electricity.

[deli_llama]

Pardon, and I can see I really, really wasn't clear. I was adding to your list, but that was edited out and never added in.  My apologies, it was thoughtless and thoughtless. 

[Okrahomer]

2 hours ago, deli_llama said:

Around 3% of those with epilepsy will have photosensitive epilepsy. I have seen other reports of it just a bit lower or higher. 

I don't know about any other conditions. Google?

I was driving with my brother on a road through a heavily forested part of Oklahoma. It was a late afternoon in winter--i.e., the trees were bare.  As the sun sank below the tops of the trees, it created a strobe-like effect with bright flashes of sunlight bursting out between the naked tree branches and trunks.  Within minutes, my brother (who does  have epilepsy) had a grand mal siesure.  It scared me to death.

[Glenn101]

9 hours ago, RevTestament said:

Some florescent fixtures can be retrofitted with LED designed for the purpose - which of course are generally expensive. I feel the best solution is to make a smaller room such as the Relief Society Room LED, but then you run into the problem of multiple ward use. Perhaps LED lighting in the foyer which also usually has natural light from the doors would be adequate?

Would limiting yourself to the foyer seem too exclusive? What do such persons do about SS and other meetings?

Actually L.E.D lighting is not all that expensive any longer, and is getting cheaper. The energy savings and extra life would make the payback come quickly.

[mnn727]

15 hours ago, Glenn101 said:

Actually L.E.D lighting is not all that expensive any longer, and is getting cheaper. The energy savings and extra life would make the payback come quickly.

I recently had LED lighting I had put in my home kill two different light fixtures, had to replace both fixtures. Not sure what happened but it would get expensive if that happened

[Storm Rider]

On 6/21/2017 at 0:47 PM, rpn said:

I am aware of members who cannot participate in meetings or activities at church because the florescent lighting triggers their medical conditions.   I am wondering if anyone has any contacts with facilities people who could set up a procedure for retrofitting buildings or at least the RS and a portion of the chapel as an accommodation for such members.   Or have any other suggestions for not perpetuating the problem in new buildings.   I've thought that since the church has said they were building new buildings to be LEED compliant that there would be LED lights and that would solve the problem.   But our just dedicated chapel still has florescent lights.

(The suggestion made by leaders so far have been to wear a mask and use a cane to come to church.   We don't know if they'll consider videoconferencing, but that does make it hard to have relationships.  Drs suggest that putting chairs so they face away from the lights can help, but the way the lights are in churches makes that not really a possibility: their everywhere.

In the Seattle temple we had periods where the sessions and the temple had reduced, low level lighting to accommodate those members with light sensitivity.  Talk first to the bishop or the Relief Society president about these types of concerns and it may be possible that other accommodations can be arranged. 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Storm Rider said:

In the Seattle temple we had periods where the sessions and the temple had reduced, low level lighting to accommodate those members with light sensitivity.  Talk first to the bishop or the Relief Society president about these types of concerns and it may be possible that other accommodations can be arranged. 

The problem is they apparently have and the response was not that helpful.

"The suggestion made by leaders so far have been to wear a mask and use a cane to come to church."

[Garden Girl]

I have mild sensitivity to fluorescent lights... enough though that in close quarters they bother me, i.e., I had to change out my kitchen light fixture and work space of my job.  Fortunately our chapel lighting is recessed style... the hallways are fluorescent, but they don't have the harsh color, etc.  I never thought seriously about it before, but know of the effect so I think members need to bring this to the attention of ward, stake, and appropriate Church offices so this can be addressed before a chapel is even built, or budgeted for change in existing facilities.

GG