Greg Trimble's Own Answer to His Article on the 'Coming Mormon Revolution'

[Bobbieaware]

Went to Greg Trimbles website and found the following recent article of his that, at least on the surface, seems to be somewhat contradictory to the ideas he expressed in his article on what he believes to be a coming Mormon revolution. If some think Trimble's Mormon revolution article is too weak on condemning sin, this article seems to provide an antidote to that characterization. It would be interesting to learn how Trimble himself harmonizes the seemingly opposing ideas presented in the two articles. It makes me wonder if there's a method to Trimble's madness? Perhaps he's trying to make a deeper point by having both articles read and considered together? Here's the link...

http://www.gregtrimble.com/quit-acting-like-christ-was-accepting-of-everyone-and-everything/#.WNsa76sR4Qg.mailto

Edited March 29, 2017 by Bobbieaware

[Duncan]

repentance, like charity, can be done in any church or no church at all. I think the problem is what does God actually care about vs. what does your Bishop care about. Par example my second Mission President held a viewpoint that I can guarantee you isn't held by others-how many I have no idea. But both "groups" are supposed to represent God then why the differing view points? I can't answer that.

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Bobbieaware said:

Went to Greg Trimbles website and found the following recent article of his that, at least on the surface, seems to be somewhat contradictory to the ideas he expressed in his article on what he believes to be a coming Mormon revolution. If some think Trimble's Mormon revolution article is too weak on condemning sin, this article seems to provide an antidote to that characterization. It would be interesting to learn how Trimble himself harmonizes the seemingly opposing ideas presented in the two articles. It makes me wonder if there's a method to Trimble's madness? Perhaps he's trying to make a deeper point by having both articles read and considered together. Here's the link...

http://www.gregtrimble.com/quit-acting-like-christ-was-accepting-of-everyone-and-everything/#.WNsa76sR4Qg.mailto

You know what, I checked out his website today and thought the very same thing when I saw that title on his blog post, blew my mind.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Tacenda

[Bobbieaware]

25 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

You know what, I checked out his website today and thought the very same thing when I saw that title on his blog post, blew my mind.

Great minds thinking alike and all that...

 

 

[The Nehor]

While I disagree with some of the earlier article I find this one less objectionable. One of the great paradoxes of Jesus's ministry was the contrast of his incredible tenderness with his almost intolerable severity.

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, Duncan said:

repentance, like charity, can be done in any church or no church at all. I think the problem is what does God actually care about vs. what does your Bishop care about. Par example my second Mission President held a viewpoint that I can guarantee you isn't held by others-how many I have no idea. But both "groups" are supposed to represent God then why the differing view points? I can't answer that.

Your Hugh B. Brown quotation highlights this very quandary: How is that the Brethren can hold such opposing views and yet still be apostles of the Lord?  Because they are all fallible humans.  In the face of such centrifugal tendencies, it is difficult to maintain a unified Church, but we do it.  How is that possible?

[clarkgoble]

11 hours ago, Bobbieaware said:

Went to Greg Trimbles website...

Who is Greg Trimble?

[HappyJackWagon]

Wasn't the "Coming Revolution" article about being loving and accepting in church? This is about people. How we act, what we say, how we love.

The other article is about Jesus. I'm guessing that if there is a line to be walked between love and condemnation, that deity would be better equipped to walk it. Humans...not so much.

[Bobbieaware]

3 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

Who is Greg Trimble?

 

3 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

Who is Greg Trimble?

Sorry for not providing enough information (knew I should have been more specific). Greg Trimble is the LDS blogger who wrote the article on which Tacenda's "What a Breath of Fresh Air!" thread is focused. The article I linked to at the beginning of this thread is also by Trimble, but what he says in this second article is surprising in light of what he says in the article linked to on Tacenda's thread. He almost seems to contradict himself, hence my reason for posting the second Trimble article.

[Meadowchik]

Here's an excellent response to Trimble:

"To avoid losing a generation, churches and church people are going to need to open their eyes to the feast that’s before us and encourage people to eat, rather than hassling them to wait out an imaginary famine for the coming gruel. The guffawing and the appeals to authority will need to stop, because Millennials “know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister. And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.” (Matt 20:25-28)
https://runts.wordpress.com/2017/03/28/perfectly-unacceptable/

[bluebell]

16 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

Here's an excellent response to Trimble:

"To avoid losing a generation, churches and church people are going to need to open their eyes to the feast that’s before us and encourage people to eat, rather than hassling them to wait out an imaginary famine for the coming gruel. The guffawing and the appeals to authority will need to stop, because Millennials “know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister. And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.” (Matt 20:25-28)
https://runts.wordpress.com/2017/03/28/perfectly-unacceptable/

I'm not even sure what that is saying.  Can you translate.  What should churches be encouraging people to eat (what is the feast)?

[USU78]

17 hours ago, Duncan said:

repentance, like charity, can be done in any church or no church at all. I think the problem is what does God actually care about vs. what does your Bishop care about. Par example my second Mission President held a viewpoint that I can guarantee you isn't held by others-how many I have no idea. But both "groups" are supposed to represent God then why the differing view points? I can't answer that.

Of course you can:  tens of thousands of Bishops worldwide, each having free agency and, collectively, a limited access to the Spirit, personal views and opinions, all volunteering their time while having concerns about home, work, politics and the future.  Your mileage, accordingly, necessarily varies.

No need to impute bad faith or "being wrong" to any, some, or one particular instance.

[Meadowchik]

41 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I'm not even sure what that is saying.  Can you translate.  What should churches be encouraging people to eat (what is the feast)?

Just being Christlike now, not waiting for a revolution....it helps if you read the entire blog at the link  

[ERMD]

I don't see much/any conflict between the two.

[Bobbieaware]

2 hours ago, ERMD said:

I don't see much/any conflict between the two.

For the most part, I actually agree with you; I do believe the ideas presented in the two articles are not necessarily mutually exclusive. But here's where Trimble's take on the gospel principles presented in his two articles, "Quit Acting Like Christ Was Accepting of Everyone and Everything" and "The Coming Revolution Inside of Mormonism," present a serious challenge to the members of the Church if they are going to be able to successfully implement and remain true to the gospel principles and gospel-oriented goals defended and championed by Trimble in both articles.

Here's what I mean: It will take LDS Church members of great knowledge, wisdom, maturity, integrity, self-discipline, trust in the Church leadership and profound love to be able to reach out to those enmeshed in sinful behavior -- especially those engaged in sinful behaviors no longer considered morally wrong by modern society -- without either a) quickly offending and alienating such people when they are taught by the Church that their behaviors need to be repented of because they are considered sinful by God, or b) having the members gradually abandon the Lord's standards of righteousness so as to not offend and alienate investigators who are caught up in those sinful behaviors that are no longer considered to sinful by the vast majority of the human race... Talk about an obstacle course!

Edited March 30, 2017 by Bobbieaware

[Meadowchik]

5 hours ago, Bobbieaware said:

For the most part, I actually agree with you; I do believe the ideas presented in the two articles are not necessarily mutually exclusive. But here's where Trimble's take on the gospel principles presented in his two articles, "Quit Acting Like Christ Was Accepting of Everyone and Everything" and "The Coming Revolution Inside of Mormonism," present a serious challenge to the members of the Church if they are going to be able to successfully implement and remain true to the gospel principles and gospel-oriented goals defended and championed by Trimble in both articles.

Here's what I mean: It will take LDS Church members of great knowledge, wisdom, maturity, integrity, self-discipline, trust in the Church leadership and profound love to be able to reach out to those enmeshed in sinful behavior -- especially those engaged in sinful behaviors no longer considered morally wrong by modern society -- without either a) quickly offending and alienating such people when they are taught by the Church that their behaviors need to be repented of because they are considered sinful by God, or b) having the members gradually abandon the Lord's standards of righteousness so as to not offend and alienate investigators who are caught up in those sinful behaviors that are no longer considered to sinful by the vast majority of the human race... Talk about an obstacle course!

And what if the LDS understanding is flawed?  While you may be working from the premise that it is the Truth, others are working from the premise that is is not.  Both of you can be completely sincere and honest. I think it is more likely that the church does not have it all right and that more humility is in order.

[Bobbieaware]

Deleted

Edited March 30, 2017 by Bobbieaware

[Bobbieaware]

 

5 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

And what if the LDS understanding is flawed?  While you may be working from the premise that it is the Truth, others are working from the premise that is is not.  Both of you can be completely sincere and honest. I think it is more likely that the church does not have it all right and that more humility is in order.

Two questions:

1) What are those things that the Church doesn't have right?

2) What do you believe some of the specific changes are the Church should make in order to sincerely manifest the increased humility of which you speak?

[Meadowchik]

2 hours ago, Bobbieaware said:

 

Two questions:

1) What are those things that the Church doesn't have right?

2) What do you believe some of the specific changes are the Church should make in order to sincerely manifest the increased humility of which you speak?

Actually that wasn't my point. You want me to disprove the premise that the church is right about everything. All I want is a more reasonable admission that the church may be wrong about some things.

Don't assume it's always right, therefore don't assume that as long as you're with the church, you're right.

It's really just a more reasonable way to engage with human beings and it is inherently humble, as imo, we should be.

[california boy]

He starts out with this premise

Quote

I don’t care whether you’re Mormon, Catholic, Protestant, or any other type of Christian…one thing is for certain. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is not a ‘buffet’ that you can compile your perfect plate from.

Yet all churches do exactly that.  They pick and choose what parts of the Bible they want to be true and what parts they want to be opinions of men.  He goes on to make a jab at homosexuals.  He admits that Christ never said anything about homosexuals.  Nor is there anything in the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price or D&C.  Yet he quotes from a letter Paul wrote to the Romans.  Was Paul writing doctrine in the letter?  Where did Paul get that doctrine.  And why doesn't the church accept all the other opinions of Paul in his letters to various churches.  Simply this.  All churches, just like the people he calls out uses the scriptures like a buffet, picking and choosing what they want to believe and teach.  I don't have a problem with this.  Every church can pick and choose whatever they want from the scriptures and believe that only they understand the meaning of the scriptures.  But let's not pretend that they also eat from the buffet table. The Mormon church is just as guilty of doing that as all the others.  Yet their special claim is that they have a prophet of God.  So their buffet is the real one, until the prophet says something wrong, then they are just fallible men.  Just something to think about.  We all want our buffet to be the real one.

 

[Five Solas]

I am amazed at the sort of heat the LDS Church gets for its stance on homosexuality.

--Greg Trimble (taken from his blog linked above)

I'm amazed by the endless & relentless fixation of LDS on the homosexual "lifestyle" (Trimble's word) along with SSM.  Of all the things one could focus his/her energy on that have a material societal impact (e.g., abortion), LDS choose this instead.  Forgive me, but it's just nutty.  It's the elevation of one thing above everything else here that contradicts Scripture.  "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all."  James 2:10.  

Trimble wrests the whole New Testament to serve his agenda.  It's the law-making/law-keeping Pharisees & moralists of the day who receive Jesus's most direct rebukes.  You'd think that might give him a little pause for self-reflection--but you'd be wrong.

--Erik

_____________________________________

You want to know what Zeus said
to Narcissus?
'You better watch yourself'

--Marilyn Manson, 2015

[Vance]

On 3/30/2017 at 10:07 AM, Five Solas said:

 It's the elevation of one thing above everything else here that contradicts Scripture. 

--Erik

 

You mean like this?

Matt 12:31 ¶ Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

  32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Vance

[Vance]

On 3/30/2017 at 10:07 AM, Five Solas said:

I'm amazed by the endless & relentless fixation of LDS on the homosexual "lifestyle" (Trimble's word) along with SSM.  Of all the things one could focus his/her energy on that have a material societal impact (e.g., abortion),

--Erik

 

You continually demonstrate how uninformed you are about things LDS,

Quote

So I come before you today as a religious leader who shares with you a love for our own country but also, like many, a growing concern about its moral health as a good society. In recent years Catholics and members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have stood more frequently side by side in the public square to defend human life and dignity. In addition to working together to alleviate poverty here and abroad, we have been together in combating the degradations associated with the pornography industry; in promoting respect for the right to life of those still waiting in their mother’s womb to be born; and in defending marriage as the union of one man and one woman for the sake of family against various efforts to redefine in civil law that foundational element of God’s natural plan for creation. I am personally grateful that, after 180 years of living mostly apart from one another, Catholics and Latter-day Saints have begun to see one another as trustworthy partners in the defense of shared moral principles and in the promotion of the common good of our beloved country.

Cardinal Francis E. George, Archbishop of Chicago

 

Too bad you didn't know.

 

[The Nehor]

On 3/30/2017 at 10:07 AM, Five Solas said:

I am amazed at the sort of heat the LDS Church gets for its stance on homosexuality.

--Greg Trimble (taken from his blog linked above)

I'm amazed by the endless & relentless fixation of LDS on the homosexual "lifestyle" (Trimble's word) along with SSM.  Of all the things one could focus his/her energy on that have a material societal impact (e.g., abortion), LDS choose this instead.  Forgive me, but it's just nutty.  It's the elevation of one thing above everything else here that contradicts Scripture.  "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all."  James 2:10.  

Trimble wrests the whole New Testament to serve his agenda.  It's the law-making/law-keeping Pharisees & moralists of the day who receive Jesus's most direct rebukes.  You'd think that might give him a little pause for self-reflection--but you'd be wrong.

--Erik

_____________________________________

You want to know what Zeus said
to Narcissus?
'You better watch yourself'

--Marilyn Manson, 2015

It gets a lot of press because bloggers defend and attack it, people have strong feelings on it, and news articles comment on it.

In LDS meetings I think I have heard the church's stance on homosexuality once in the last year while in a Gospel Principles Law of Chastity lesson and that reference was pretty oblique. I can think of two testimonies in my life that mentioned it, one talk over the pulpit, and a few announcements about changes in state laws asking for help (3-4 times?). It sometimes comes up in chastity and moral purity lessons in Sunday School and Priesthood but those come up maybe once a year in my experience. We are not fixated and do not spend a ton of time talking about it. From the outside looking in it may seem that way because our much more numerous discussions of Faith, Repentance, Charity, and Temple Work do not get people worked up for whatever reason.

Listening to comments like yours makes it sound like we get fist-pounding sermons on the evils of the godless sodomites on a weekly basis.

[mrmarklin]

On 3/29/2017 at 7:31 AM, clarkgoble said:

Who is Greg Trimble?

And why should I care about anything he says?