Particular cases of why people leave

[Garden Girl]

6 hours ago, Marmonboy said:

On an intellectual level I understand the concept, but these wards included my roommates and next door neighbors. Somebody there should have said something. They had my records--where were the home teachers? To be honest, I wasn't in a very happy place at that time, and I must have been radiating negativity, although I couldn't detect it myself. I did try to be sociable, but seemed to be rebuffed constantly. That part persists--most social occasions I sit alone in a corner with my punch and cookies until I leave. I used to try to get into the conversations, but nobody seemed to care what I had to say, or even listen. I have resolved the issue by simply not going anymore, unless my assistance is required (like a ward party or something.)

 

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

 

Now that the young man I was helping hasn't been coming to church with his health problems, there is no reason to go. I guess I could try an experiment and not attend for a few months, I wonder what would happen then. 

Marmonboy and Tacenda...

May I be encouraging to you both... I realize I'm biased because I'm active and I am a believer... but I don't think that not attending is the answer... but then I don't face your circumstances and how they are affecting you.  All I know is that I want to reach out to you and encourage you both not to give up.  Tacenda... because I've actually met and enjoyed lunch with you and your husband, I encourage you to reconsider and to at least attend sacrament mtg, and to again start to study, ponder and pray the positive Church materials/writers vs the negative.  And Marmonboy, I encourage you also in continuing efforts to reach out because of reasons Calm stated above...  

GG

[Marmonboy]

I'm actually very happy in my current ward, where I'm warmly greeted every Sunday. But long ago in my student ward it wasn't like that at all. There were other occasions where even my roomies rejected any opportunities to include me in activities. I know it wasn't all on them, but in a church that preaches reaching out for the one, they sure didn't at the time. I will confess that I was testing them somewhat, to see if I was welcome or not, but they failed it almost every time.

[Tacenda]

1 minute ago, Marmonboy said:

I'm actually very happy in my current ward, where I'm warmly greeted every Sunday. But long ago in my student ward it wasn't like that at all. There were other occasions where even my roomies rejected any opportunities to include me in activities. I know it wasn't all on them, but in a church that preaches reaching out for the one, they sure didn't at the time. I will confess that I was testing them somewhat, to see if I was welcome or not, but they failed it almost every time.

There are wards like that, for sure. It could be mostly me, I take at least 5 years to feel comfortable, but that was when I served in various callings. I haven't really had an official calling for over 4 years now. Just a request to help a disabled young man, (the most amazing young man around!). The leaders may have been inspired to ask me. So it helps to meet others in our callings. But I've seen some wards that are cliquish. And I'm sad to say I might have been in a group or two that aren't as aware of the ward members that are lonely or need a friend. So it might just be karma coming back to get me. 

Glad to hear you're in a much friendlier ward! BTW, I remember a friend that had moved to my ward from a ward near the Bountiful Temple on the hill. She mentioned how if you didn't own a mink coat you wouldn't fit in. I'm sure she was being sarcastic.

 

[Rain]

On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Tacenda said:

Maybe it's my personality also. I tend to regret every time I go to Relief Society Meeting. But during my faith crisis, it was very stark, the lack of interference with what I was going through. Even when I discontinued having my visiting teachers come, for fear I'll wreck their lives. Usually the RS president will reach out anyway, but not my RS president. She avoided me like the plague. I even tried to talk to her in the halls in church and she ignored me. She may have been distracted I don't know. I've even complimented someone on their RS lesson and they didn't respond. They may have been overwhelmed with just having finished the lesson and it being stressful, don't know. 

Now that the young man I was helping hasn't been coming to church with his health problems, there is no reason to go. I guess I could try an experiment and not attend for a few months, I wonder what would happen then. 

I've already missed several Sacrament meetings. I know this is stupid to think this way, but I really see it as a problem in the church or maybe just my ward. I think they might only go after those that don't have their compromised testimonies stemming from the poor historical representations, and maybe go after those that have no idea, or leave or don't come for other reasons. Because there simply aren't any answers. Or the local leaders haven't been trained enough to handle them.

Do you feel this way or do you think this way? Sometimes our thoughts and feelings don't always coincide. I ask because you have shared several instances where you have closed off others, but then share that you think others are closing you off. Yes, it could be happening from both sides, but maybe before being sure they are the ones doing it you might want to make sure you are not the one doing it all or clearly communicate with them to see if it is them and if it is them give them a chance to do better.

I know that's a hard thing I am suggesting. What if it really is them and they reject you? That's hard at the best of times, but even harder when you are tender. But what if you found they were just waiting for a sign from you to be closer?

Often times I hear people say irritatively, "it's always the individual's fault. Never the church". That we shouldn't always blame the individual. And they are right. We shouldn't always blame an individual over the church or over another person. So I'm not saying " Tacenda is responsible, not the RS or the RS teacher".  I'm saying you can't change them. You can't let them know by osmosis that you want to be contacted. But you can choose to do something yourself. 

 

Edited February 2, 2017 by Rain

[Duncan]

I checked out a bunch of Canadian ones, most were historical, LGBT and someone doesn't think God speaks to people through rocks in hats, single in a married people church

[Revenant Angel]

The day you realize it's one of the most profitable business-models imaginable... holding entrance into Heaven over every member's head. Brilliant... absolutely brilliant.

[Revenant Angel]

...someone knocking on your door, leaving a card in the door. You open the card that is from the bishop inviting you (who has been inactive) to the Christmas sacrament meeting this week.... that ended 2 hours ago. Lol! True story.

[bluebell]

13 hours ago, Revenant Angel said:

The day you realize it's one of the most profitable business-models imaginable... holding entrance into Heaven over every member's head. Brilliant... absolutely brilliant.

If the business exists only to support itself, what is so brilliant about it?  A business where 100% of the gross must go back into the business isn't a great business model, regardless of who you talk to. 

[Revenant Angel]

On 1/28/2017 at 2:00 PM, bluebell said:

If the business exists only to support itself, what is so brilliant about it?  A business where 100% of the gross must go back into the business isn't a great business model, regardless of who you talk to. 

What business doesn't exist to support itself and itself only?? Lol. Yeah, imagine that, spending the money you earn on yourself. You just hit the intelligence jackpot.

[bluebell]

2 minutes ago, Revenant Angel said:

What business doesn't exist to support itself and itself only?? Lol. Yeah, imagine that, spending the money you earn on yourself. You just hit the intelligence jackpot.

None that i know of.  Every business that i know of exists to make money for the owner/shareholders.  It exists to support them and not itself.  

[ksfisher]

3 minutes ago, Revenant Angel said:

What business doesn't exist to support itself and itself only?? Lol. Yeah, imagine that, spending the money you earn on yourself. You just hit the intelligence jackpot.

Businesses usually exist in order to benefit their owners/investors.  If an owner or investor cannot get money out of the business, because 100% is going back in, they've tied their investment money up and will soon be looking for a buyer.

A business that puts 100% of its profits back into itself is called a non-profit.  

[Revenant Angel]

Just now, ksfisher said:

Businesses usually exist in order to benefit their owners/investors.  If an owner or investor cannot get money out of the business, because 100% is going back in, they've tied their investment money up and will soon be looking for a buyer.

A business that puts 100% of its profits back into itself is called a non-profit.  

I suppose City Creek is not-for-profit. lol. Do you read what you type before you post it?

[ksfisher]

8 minutes ago, Revenant Angel said:

I suppose City Creek is not-for-profit. lol. Do you read what you type before you post it?

If you suppose City Creek is not for profit then you suppose incorrectly.  It is well known that City Creek is owned by the for profit business arm of the church.  

And I do read what I type.  Is their something wrong with what I've written?  If so the please point it out rather than insinuating.

[Meadowchik]

On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Rain said:

Do you feel this way or do you think this way? Sometimes our thoughts and feelings don't always coincide. I as because you have shated several instances where you have closed off others, but then share that you think others are closing you off. Yes, it could be happening from both sides, but maybe before being sure they are the ones doing it you might want to make sure you are not the one doing it all or clearly communicate with them to see if it is them and if it is them give them a chance to do better.

I know that's a hard thing I am suggesting. What if it really is them and the reject you? That's hard at the best of times, but even harder when you are tender. But what if you found they were just waiting for a sign from you to be closer?

Often times I hear people say irritatively, "it's always the individual's fault. Never the church". That we shouldn't always blame the individual. And they are right. We shouldn't always blame an individual over the church or over another person. So I'm not saying " Tacenda is responsible, not the RS or the RS teacher".  I'm saying you can't change them. You can't let them know by osmosis that you want to be contacted. But you can choose to do something yourself. 

 

In another thread I was saying how it really is like other relationships, church and individual, that is. If a person is injured by the Church, the Church making amends, apologising,  and repenting can promote healing much faster and effectively than if the person is left to resolve their injuries alone, or worse, blamed and cast away.

Just a few weeks ago I thought the latter might be our coming situation. But the situation calmed and the Church leader apologised. 

I can see now that one reason people leave can be injury. They may be trying to heal. Sometimes, hopefully only rarely, returning to church may be traumatic and hinder healing.

[Rain]

31 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

In another thread I was saying how it really is like other relationships, church and individual, that is. If a person is injured by the Church, the Church making amends, apologising,  and repenting can promote healing much faster and effectively than if the person is left to resolve their injuries alone, or worse, blamed and cast away.

Just a few weeks ago I thought the latter might be our coming situation. But the situation calmed and the Church leader apologised. 

I can see now that one reason people leave can be injury. They may be trying to heal. Sometimes, hopefully only rarely, returning to church may be traumatic and hinder healing.

But what if the church leader doesn't know?

Years ago a woman asked my mom if I was mad at her. Apparently, I had gone past her at the university twice and didn't acknowledge her. I couldn't remember ever even seeing her. Either there must have been a lot of people or I was hurrying to class or something made it so I didn't notice her. It had nothing to do with my feelings toward her.

When I was over homemaking, as RS 2nd counselor, one of the sisters lost her mom. She came to my house over something to do with her calling on the homemaking committee. I was worried about her because her grief was so strong and was trying to let her know it was ok to let go of her committee responsibilities for awhile, that I could take care of them. I later found out from someone else she was very hurt when I looked at her funny. I felt I couldn't say anything to her because she had told the person in confidence so I couldn't even apologize. I could only keep doing what I had been doing - treating her kindly.

Again, I was told by someone that another person was hurt over something I had said, but either I communicated badly or they misunderstood because what they heard was totally not what I meant. 

In the situations that Tacenda talked about it is enterely possible that the people don't know how she is feeling. They may feel she asked for space and they are trying to be respectful of her wishes.  They may feel they have tried to put forth their hand toward her, but didn't know she didn't see it.  

So while in your case I can totally see a reason for the leader to come apologize and think it is right, the people Tacenda described may not know of any reason to do so.  If they really have been rejecting her they need to humble themselves and apologize,  but at this point no one knows,  except them, if that is the case. 

I can tell you if any of those women had come to me, that I would have apologized for not seeing or miscommunicating. If the Spirit would have said so I would have sought them out,  but I had no clue. So sometimes the hurt individual has to be the one that speaks first. 

[Johnnie Cake]

On ‎1‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 9:40 AM, stemelbow said:

http://whyileft.herokuapp.com/

I zoomed into areas that I'm familiar with.  Interesting that I think I can pinpoint a few people I know.  Wouldn't have thought they would have posted on this.  Anyway, I could spend a day and a half on this just reading all that summed up reasons.  very interesting.

It's good information for anyone who finds themselves in this situation to know that they are not alone...

[Meadowchik]

3 hours ago, Rain said:

But what if the church leader doesn't know?

Years ago a woman asked my mom if I was mad at her. Apparently, I had gone past her at the university twice and didn't acknowledge her. I couldn't remember ever even seeing her. Either there must have been a lot of people or I was hurrying to class or something made it so I didn't notice her. It had nothing to do with my feelings toward her.

When I was over homemaking, as RS 2nd counselor, one of the sisters lost her mom. She came to my house over something to do with her calling on the homemaking committee. I was worried about her because her grief was so strong and was trying to let her know it was ok to let go of her committee responsibilities for awhile, that I could take care of them. I later found out from someone else she was very hurt when I looked at her funny. I felt I couldn't say anything to her because she had told the person in confidence so I couldn't even apologize. I could only keep doing what I had been doing - treating her kindly.

Again, I was told by someone that another person was hurt over something I had said, but either I communicated badly or they misunderstood because what they heard was totally not what I meant. 

In the situations that Tacenda talked about it is enterely possible that the people don't know how she is feeling. They may feel she asked for space and they are trying to be respectful of her wishes.  They may feel they have tried to put forth their hand toward her, but didn't know she didn't see it.  

So while in your case I can totally see a reason for the leader to come apologize and think it is right, the people Tacenda described may not know of any reason to do so.  If they really have been rejecting her they need to humble themselves and apologize,  but at this point no one knows,  except them, if that is the case. 

I can tell you if any of those women had come to me, that I would have apologized for not seeing or miscommunicating. If the Spirit would have said so I would have sought them out,  but I had no clue. So sometimes the hurt individual has to be the one that speaks first. 

Yup, good point. 

I just want to help legitimize the claim that people can get hurt by the Church. And it's okay when Church leaders apologize, even frequently necessary! 

[Calm]

On 2017-01-12 at 9:40 AM, stemelbow said:

http://whyileft.herokuapp.com/

I zoomed into areas that I'm familiar with.  Interesting that I think I can pinpoint a few people I know.  Wouldn't have thought they would have posted on this.  Anyway, I could spend a day and a half on this just reading all that summed up reasons.  very interesting.

How close do you have to be to see markers?  I am not getting any in multiple places that would be likely, such as around Salt Lake.

[changed]

I'm on my way out right now.  I'm female, and have been "dis-fellowshiped" for getting a job.  First they took away my VT route, then they took away my calling.  I admit, I average 4 hrs of sleep at night and don't have time for VTing etc.  Guess I don't have time for church either.  My beef is not with the church I guess though, it's with God.  God does not love me.  I should not be on here either - I'm leaving to get my 4 hrs. of sleep.

[Garden Girl]

29 minutes ago, changed said:

I'm on my way out right now.  I'm female, and have been "dis-fellowshiped" for getting a job.  First they took away my VT route, then they took away my calling.  I admit, I average 4 hrs of sleep at night and don't have time for VTing etc.  Guess I don't have time for church either.  My beef is not with the church I guess though, it's with God.  God does not love me.  I should not be on here either - I'm leaving to get my 4 hrs. of sleep.

I'm so sorry that you are "on your way out."  There must be more to your story as I've never known of any member "disfellowshiped" for getting a job... in fact, the Church's stance on women working outside the home has softened somewhat with the reality of today's economy.  I know of a couple sisters in our ward who even have to work on a certain number of Sundays each month and still remain in good stead...  and I'm sorry changed, I have a testimony that God loves all His children, and that includes YOU...  I hope you will reconsider any action that would take you away from God and/or the Church...

GG  

[saemo]

On 1/16/2017 at 9:29 AM, Tacenda said:

Maybe it's my personality also. I tend to regret every time I go to Relief Society Meeting. But during my faith crisis, it was very stark, the lack of interference with what I was going through. Even when I discontinued having my visiting teachers come, for fear I'll wreck their lives. Usually the RS president will reach out anyway, but not my RS president. She avoided me like the plague. I even tried to talk to her in the halls in church and she ignored me. She may have been distracted I don't know. I've even complimented someone on their RS lesson and they didn't respond. They may have been overwhelmed with just having finished the lesson and it being stressful, don't know. 

Now that the young man I was helping hasn't been coming to church with his health problems, there is no reason to go. I guess I could try an experiment and not attend for a few months, I wonder what would happen then. 

I've already missed several Sacrament meetings. I know this is stupid to think this way, but I really see it as a problem in the church or maybe just my ward. I think they might only go after those that don't have their compromised testimonies stemming from the poor historical representations, and maybe go after those that have no idea, or leave or don't come for other reasons. Because there simply aren't any answers. Or the local leaders haven't been trained enough to handle them.

You should get some kind of super super star, licked, and stuck to your forehead. Serious question. Why do you stay?

I knew about JS polygamy from the day I was born. It is a source of pride in my family-with-polygamous-ancestors. Brigham Young was discussed more, on the topic, and D&C 132 was considered still in force, just waiting for the day the Church would reinstate it, as a sign of Good Things happening. My mother, to this day, expects to live polygamy. If not in this life it will be the next.  Our family lore is of women accepting their own sisters as sister wives, and how brave and courageous and awesome they were for doing so.

Me, I think they were a bunch of weirdos.

Edited February 6, 2017 by saemo