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Particular cases of why people leave


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Posted

For HappyJack:

I realized that "truth" wasn't what i thought it was. The church wasn't what it claimed to be. it was too black and white and i felt i could no longer make it work. Didn't necessarily want to leave but i couldn't stay and still speak my mind. Too much fear, control and manipulation. Structural inequality. Too many things to cram into a short comment.

 

Posted
8 minutes ago, Duncan said:

how does it work? I click on the smiley face and I get zippo!

hm...maybe try a different browser.  I click on them and get a little summary of why the person left. 

Posted

Something I noticed about this.  There are 3438 pins and growing.  All since, as far as I can tell Nov 2016.  That is the last two months.  I hope this grows.  It could be very informative to us members.  And if at some point we can look to this to get an idea of how many people are leaving?  That'd be awesome. 

Posted
34 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

For HappyJack:

I realized that "truth" wasn't what i thought it was. The church wasn't what it claimed to be. it was too black and white and i felt i could no longer make it work. Didn't necessarily want to leave but i couldn't stay and still speak my mind. Too much fear, control and manipulation. Structural inequality. Too many things to cram into a short comment.

 

I agree with the sentiment of this author but I just want to make it clear that I'm still actively engaged in church, holding callings etc etc. So I haven't come to the conclusion (yet) that I can no longer make it work. It's tough sometimes but it's working...somewhat.

Posted
1 minute ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I agree with the sentiment of this author but I just want to make it clear that I'm still actively engaged in church, holding callings etc etc. So I haven't come to the conclusion (yet) that I can no longer make it work. It's tough sometimes but it's working...somewhat.

I figured that was true.  I was pointing out one of your neighbors, as I also looked at my neighbor's comments.  Now I have some ice breakers. 

Posted
2 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I agree with the sentiment of this author but I just want to make it clear that I'm still actively engaged in church, holding callings etc etc. So I haven't come to the conclusion (yet) that I can no longer make it work. It's tough sometimes but it's working...somewhat.

I would like to add to HappyJackWagon's statement, that sometimes people leave temporarily and then come back.  I'm in the middle of that myself, going for the past 3 weeks and so far so good, I had previously been on a sabbatical for about 16 months.  

My faith is very different looking now and I'm experimenting with how accepting people are of my unorthodox perspectives.  I honor those inside and outside Mormonism, and I don't believe in a one true exclusive church anymore.  Hoping that the church culture can change to accommodate those of us who want to be a part of the community, looking for a big tent Mormonism.  

Posted
3 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I figured that was true.  I was pointing out one of your neighbors, as I also looked at my neighbor's comments.  Now I have some ice breakers. 

Whoa- I zoomed in on my area and that person is super close to me. I'm shocked because no one I know in the church lives right there (it's pretty specific). It must be someone who has moved to the area and doesn't associate with the church at all because I think I would be able to identify them otherwise.

Posted
14 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Something I noticed about this.  There are 3438 pins and growing.  All since, as far as I can tell Nov 2016.  That is the last two months.  I hope this grows.  It could be very informative to us members.  And if at some point we can look to this to get an idea of how many people are leaving?  That'd be awesome. 

Why do you hope it grows?

Posted
16 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Something I noticed about this.  There are 3438 pins and growing.  All since, as far as I can tell Nov 2016.  That is the last two months.  I hope this grows.  It could be very informative to us members.  And if at some point we can look to this to get an idea of how many people are leaving?  That'd be awesome. 

I think it would be much more awesome to find out why people join. I think that would make for a truly awesome site. I guess Mormonstories and Mormonconverts.org might kind of fill that bill, but a site devoted just to conversion stories I think would be awesome.

Posted
13 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Whoa- I zoomed in on my area and that person is super close to me. I'm shocked because no one I know in the church lives right there (it's pretty specific). It must be someone who has moved to the area and doesn't associate with the church at all because I think I would be able to identify them otherwise.

hah...that reminds me.  Came home from mission and learned the internet toy.  Started chatting at people about religious stuff only to learn that one lady I befriended, lived next door to the apartment in my last mission area.  Hah...coincidences found on the internet. 

Posted
16 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

I would like to add to HappyJackWagon's statement, that sometimes people leave temporarily and then come back.  I'm in the middle of that myself, going for the past 3 weeks and so far so good, I had previously been on a sabbatical for about 16 months.  

My faith is very different looking now and I'm experimenting with how accepting people are of my unorthodox perspectives.  I honor those inside and outside Mormonism, and I don't believe in a one true exclusive church anymore.  Hoping that the church culture can change to accommodate those of us who want to be a part of the community, looking for a big tent Mormonism.  

Most things you say, I'm on board with, I will say. 

Posted
2 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

"It could be very informative to us members. "

Not really. I believe I know the various reasons most people leave. I believe the church is trying to address at least some of those. Others one simply must have the faith to accept.

Posted
23 minutes ago, SteveO said:

Why do you hope it grows?

I would say that it is better to understand why when someone leaves than not understand when they leave. People have left, so it would be good if more from that group could share their experiences and perspectives.

I don't think it must mean he/she hopes more will leave.

Posted
14 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Most things you say, I'm on board with, I will say. 

Thanks.  I also know a lot of people who consider themselves Mormon still, but aren't active.  I like the idea of being able to own Mormonism however each individual wants to.  Active, inactive, cultural, orthodox, Jack, polygamist factions, whatever, its one big hodgepodge.   

Posted
6 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

"It could be very informative to us members. "

Nah.  You know one thing in common with websites like this?  The disclaimer up front.  Making sure myself and others understand that the "whys" of leaving the church are legitimate and have nothing to do with anything other than the church's truth claims, history, lies, corruptions, etc.

You know why their motivations are generally called into question by myself and others?  Because every single instance of those who left the church, who I know personally, have left for reasons that fall outside those stated in the disclaimer.  Even my next door neighbor, who is on this website, didn't leave for their stated reason:

The claims are false. The organization is harmful and corrupt.    
 
No, actually, their faith started to go when they decided to get divorced after five years of a temple marriage.  My wife is her visiting teacher.  She started to doubt the truth claims because her temple marriage was promised to be forever.  If that failed, what else couldn't be true?  
 
Painful yes, but it's not the church's fault. The historical reasons are more ad hoc than the initial crack in the faith. 
 
And it goes on and on.  Nobody I have ever known personally, has ever gone on the internet, read some negative version of church history, and went down the road of disillusionment and doubt. 
 
Do some people leave as per the disclaimer's stated reasons?  I imagine so.  But I don't know any personally.  
 
I know one person who has legitimate, serious doubts and is struggling with the history.  She's in my ward, is very open and frank about it, and shares it with friends at church (my wife).  She also has a calling, attends the temple, and is an absolutely wonderful member of the church.  
 
People like her are the ones you should be interested in.
 
 
 
Posted
2 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

Which reason is the correct one, the reason given by the person who left the church self described as for over church history issues, or the reason given by a neighbor/visiting teacher who says they know the "real" reasons someone left.  

You seem to have a bias towards viewing people leaving the church for reasons that are "not the church's fault".  Why do you feel so compelled to do this?  

You mean the reason she told my wife personally during a visit?  Or an anonymous smiley giving a generic historical reason?  You must place more *faith* than me in the latter.

Its human nature to place the best foot forward, in just about everything that's in the public record.  

Can you give me a reason why you're willing to believe anonymous smiley faces at, *ahem* face value?

Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, stemelbow said:

http://whyileft.herokuapp.com/

I zoomed into areas that I'm familiar with.  Interesting that I think I can pinpoint a few people I know.  Wouldn't have thought they would have posted on this.  Anyway, I could spend a day and a half on this just reading all that summed up reasons.  very interesting.

Thanks for calling attention to that site.  Found some unexpected and unusual reasons among the 3,450 pins, such as the following:

Quote

The cake was a lie. All of it. Taking a step back and looking from the outside made me finally realized it's not true. The church operates like a conspiracy theory.Nov/27/2016

 

Quote

Realized that the Church is a successful business but not an efficient or logical way to bring salvation to the masses. Having to baptize someone individually for every person that ever lived past 8, really? Makes business sense, but not engineering sense.Dec/12/2016

 

Quote

I don't believe God would choose a man like Joseph Smith to be a prophet.Nov/27/2016

 

Quote

I was in therapy and studying abusive relationships. I realized the most abusive relationship i had was the one with the church. They told me what I should think, do, and be. If I had any struggles, all problems were 100% my fault. If I stayed, it would be to try to change the organization. It was a lot healthier to get out and get away.Dec/05/2016

 

Quote

Are you kidding Hot drinks are evil?Dec/04/2016

 

Quote

My SP called he a liar for saying JS had multiple wives and proceeded to shred my TR.Nov/27/2016

 

Quote

I needed the divine feminine.Dec/06/2016

 

Quote

It had complete, total control over my life, my family, my body, my mind. I had nothing.Mar/08/2016

 

Quote

We have the Internet now. There is no reason to stay.Mar/08/2016

 

Quote

Became incredibly ill Andover constantly ha d demands to know where I was on Sundays and why I couldn't go VT. Made me sicker. Also gave me time to study church history and de-convert myselfDec/21/2016

 

Quote

There is no need for spiritual redemption, not through Jesus, nor through any man.Dec/05/2016

 

Edited by Robert F. Smith
Posted (edited)

I noticed one of the markers in my area doesn't correspond with a home or apartment.  It's in a business area.  I wonder if some people are just putting random addresses down.

 

Edited by bluebell
Posted
2 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I noticed one of the markers in my area doesn't correspond with a home or apartment.  It's in a business area.  I wonder if some people are just putting random addresses down.

The only one in my town is pinned to the High School baseball field. That said, the site does invite people to put down pins in ways that doesn't identify their true location. Since nothing on the site is verified, I'm sure there is some level of misinformation. I guess the real power is that it allows some people to feel that they have a voice and are not alone.

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