MormonLeaks publishes docs on GA pay, meetings

[stemelbow]

Quote

According to an official church Welfare Services fact sheet, the church gave $1.3 billion in humanitarian aid in more than 178 countries and territories during the 25 years between 1985 and 2010. A fact sheet from the previous year indicates that less than one-third of the sum was monetary assistance, while the rest was in the form of “material assistance.” All in all, if one were to evenly distribute that $1.3 billion over a quarter-century, it would mean that the church gave $52 million annually. A study co-written by Cragun and recently published in Free Inquiry estimates that the Mormon Church donates only about 0.7 percent of its annual income to charity; the United Methodist Church gives about 29 percent.

https://mormonamerican.com/2012/07/23/the-charity-of-the-lds-church/

I'm remembering the above info that was bandied about years ago.  If 1/3rd of the sum was monetary assistance, that'd mean 429,000,000 bucks.  over the course of 25 years, that's 17,160,000 per year, which is 39% more than all the money paid to GAs (103 of them, as I think someone reported earlier in this thread) per year (12,360,000), as of 2014 moneys.  Of course in 1985 17 million went a lot further than in 2010 0r 2014.  So it's a tough comparison in that sense.  But it might prove at least a little interesting. 

 

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, JulieM said:

So, do the GA's get a parsonage allowance in addition to the $120,000 a year?  If so, does that mean they get their houses or housing paid for and also $10,00 a month?  (I haven't looked closely at the leak, so I'm just curious.)

That appears to be the case, and it seems a little less than a typical Methodist minister gets.  Health insurance is probably another benefit.

The powerful Protestant leader Billy Graham (whose net worth is estimated at $25 million) received about $160,000 plus expenses in compensation from the BGEA in 2014 (even though he is fully retired, and now 98 years-old).  In 2015 his son Franklin Graham receive $880,000 per year from the BGEA and Samaritan's Purse combined; but a total of $1.2 million in 2009.

[california boy]

3 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

CES employees are not highly paid, but, while BYU is part of CES (though I'm not sure what then-President Holland's salary was in 1989), I would imagine it was at least low six-figures.  (Still, that's peanuts compared to what other university presidents make in salary and other compensation, even at some state schools). See, e.g.: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/college-president-salaries/.

I always thought it was quite odd that I was paid $599 a year to teach seminary in California.  The reason the amount was $599 was because if any company pays someone $600 or more, they have to issue a W-2 form for tax purposes.  But why pay seminary teachers anything?  I loved teaching.  I hated getting up at 5:30 in the morning to teach it.  But surely the bishop and numerous others make far bigger sacrifices.  The reason I was told is because CES pays full time seminary teachers, so they also pay part time seminary teachers.  Am I the only one that thinks it is weird to pay seminary teachers?

[stemelbow]

4 minutes ago, california boy said:

I always thought it was quite odd that I was paid $599 a year to teach seminary in California.  The reason the amount was $599 was because if any company pays someone $600 or more, they have to issue a W-2 form for tax purposes.  But why pay seminary teachers anything?  I loved teaching.  I hated getting up at 5:30 in the morning to teach it.  But surely the bishop and numerous others make far bigger sacrifices.  The reason I was told is because CES pays full time seminary teachers, so they also pay part time seminary teachers.  Am I the only one that thinks it is weird to pay seminary teachers?

Yes, Weirdo.(-;

[bluebell]

3 hours ago, JulieM said:

So, do the GA's get a parsonage allowance in addition to the $120,000 a year?  If so, does that mean they get their houses or housing paid for and also $10,00 a month?  (I haven't looked closely at the leak, so I'm just curious.)

The news article i linked to previously said that parsonage allowances and child allowances are a part of the $120,000.  At least, they were in regards to Elder Eyring's earnings.

[rockpond]

2 minutes ago, california boy said:

I always thought it was quite odd that I was paid $599 a year to teach seminary in California.  The reason the amount was $599 was because if any company pays someone $600 or more, they have to issue a W-2 form for tax purposes.  But why pay seminary teachers anything?  I loved teaching.  I hated getting up at 5:30 in the morning to teach it.  But surely the bishop and numerous others make far bigger sacrifices.  The reason I was told is because CES pays full time seminary teachers, so they also pay part time seminary teachers.  Am I the only one that thinks it is weird to pay seminary teachers?

I didn't get paid when I was an early morning seminary teacher here in Colorado (2006-2008) - not that I ever expected to get paid.  I wonder if that has changed since you taught.

But, I also wouldn't consider $599 per year as "getting paid to teach".  That amount of money for the amount of time it takes to teach seminary truly does fit the definition of a small stipend.  Any chance the thought behind it was to offset the cost of supplies, treats/food, gas?  I never thought to add it up but between classroom materials that I purchased, the occasional "donut day", treat bucket, small birthday gifts for students, and my end of semester breakfasts... I may have spent somewhere around $600/yr.

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, Rain said:

Missionaries in the pasta plant may not be directly working with the poor, but their work still helps them. 

And they wear missionary tags.  I only know because we just helped to clean the Mill in Kaysville last Wednesday and got to interact with quite a few.  They often have to give tours and such to non-LDS.

[JulieM]

18 minutes ago, bluebell said:

The news article i linked to previously said that parsonage allowances and child allowances are a part of the $120,000.  At least, they were in regards to Elder Eyring's earnings.

That contradicts what Robert Smith stated above.  Why give an extra allowance if it's included in the salary?  

Do you have a reference stating the parsonage allowance is included in the $10,000 a month salary?

And, why would he need a child allowance?  Maybe he still had children at home?

i guess a benefit is this makes the allowances tax free (if I'm reading correctly).

Edited January 12, 2017 by JulieM

[Danzo]

3 hours ago, JulieM said:

So, do the GA's get a parsonage allowance in addition to the $120,000 a year?  If so, does that mean they get their houses or housing paid for and also $10,00 a month?  (I haven't looked closely at the leak, so I'm just curious.)

The parsonage allowance should be included on the pay stub.  There are IRS rules that restrict the amount of a parsonage allowance.

[bluebell]

10 minutes ago, JulieM said:

That contradicts what Robert Smith stated above and what I've read elsewhere.  Why give an extra allowance if it's included in the salary?  

Do you have a reference stating the parsonage allowance is included in the $10,000 a month salary?

And, why would he need a child allowance?  Maybe he still had children at home?

i guess a benefit is this makes the allowances tax free (if I'm reading correctly).

"Eyring's biweekly salary broken down into a living allowance ($2,192.31), parsonage or clergy housing, ($826.92) and a child allowance ($76.92)."

From this article.

[california boy]

2 minutes ago, rockpond said:

I didn't get paid when I was an early morning seminary teacher here in Colorado (2006-2008) - not that I ever expected to get paid.  I wonder if that has changed since you taught.

But, I also wouldn't consider $599 per year as "getting paid to teach".  That amount of money for the amount of time it takes to teach seminary truly does fit the definition of a small stipend.  Any chance the thought behind it was to offset the cost of supplies, treats/food, gas?  I never thought to add it up but between classroom materials that I purchased, the occasional "donut day", treat bucket, small birthday gifts for students, and my end of semester breakfasts... I may have spent somewhere around $600/yr.

Perhaps the church has discontinued the practice.  I have been out of the church for quite a while. I was clearly told it was a salary.  I agree that it hardly compensated me for the time spent.  Like I said, it didn't make much sense to me and the amount was so small, that I found it more a joke than compensation.  

I admit, I did pretty much spent the money on donuts, seminary breakfasts, reading material and supplies. I probably bought more than I normally would have because I felt like the $599 was not really my money.  What primary teacher, scout leader, bishop or any other leader doesn't pay for things out of his pocket.  Like I said, they told me it was because I was an employee of CES.  I almost asked them if that was the case, is this not a church calling?  Because if it was just a job, I would have quit.  But actually, I loved teaching seminary, so none of it really mattered.  In our ward, if you were a seminary teacher, generally you were not called to another position.  I was called into the bishopric while teaching seminary.  They asked if I wanted to be released from being a seminary teacher.  I told them that I wanted to finish the year out.  Between the two callings, being a seminary teacher is the one that was the hardest.  Facing those kids every morning with yet another lesson that made it worth for them getting up at 5:30 in the morning for is quite the challenge.

[JulieM]

Just now, bluebell said:

"Eyring's biweekly salary broken down into a living allowance ($2,192.31), parsonage or clergy housing, ($826.92) and a child allowance ($76.92)."

From this article.

I just read that.  So he only pays tax on part of his income, right? (the $120,000 per year).  I guess they break it down or give allowances that are tax free as one of their benefits.  If I understand correctly....

[rockpond]

14 minutes ago, california boy said:

Perhaps the church has discontinued the practice.  I have been out of the church for quite a while. I was clearly told it was a salary.  I agree that it hardly compensated me for the time spent.  Like I said, it didn't make much sense to me and the amount was so small, that I found it more a joke than compensation.  

I admit, I did pretty much spent the money on donuts, seminary breakfasts, reading material and supplies. I probably bought more than I normally would have because I felt like the $599 was not really my money.  What primary teacher, scout leader, bishop or any other leader doesn't pay for things out of his pocket.  Like I said, they told me it was because I was an employee of CES.  I almost asked them if that was the case, is this not a church calling?  Because if it was just a job, I would have quit.  But actually, I loved teaching seminary, so none of it really mattered.  In our ward, if you were a seminary teacher, generally you were not called to another position.  I was called into the bishopric while teaching seminary.  They asked if I wanted to be released from being a seminary teacher.  I told them that I wanted to finish the year out.  Between the two callings, being a seminary teacher is the one that was the hardest.  Facing those kids every morning with yet another lesson that made it worth for them getting up at 5:30 in the morning for is quite the challenge.

Wow... I hope you didn't overlap bishopric and seminary callings for very long.  That would be a killer.

[Johnnie Cake]

2 hours ago, stemelbow said:

ps://mormonamerican.com/2012/07/23/the-charity-of-the-lds-church/

I'm remembering the above info that was bandied about years ago.  If 1/3rd of the sum was monetary assistance, that'd mean 429,000,000 bucks.  over the course of 25 years, that's 17,160,000 per year, which is 39% more than all the money paid to GAs (103 of them, as I think someone reported earlier in this thread) per year (12,360,000), as of 2014 moneys.  Of course in 1985 17 million went a lot further than in 2010 0r 2014.  So it's a tough comparison in that sense.  But it might prove at least a little interesting. 

 

This right HERE...is why the church needs to open their books and become transparent with their finances.  As a tithe payer I used to pay 10's of thousands in tithing each year.  Had I know then that only $1.10 of my tithing was actually going to humanitarian aid I would have been furious.  I'm only guessing but if a survey were conducted and the average LDS member were asked to estimate how much the church gives in humanitarian aid each year...I'm going to guess that it would be a whole lot more than $1.10 per year.  The only way to remove this misconception is for the church to provide this level of transparency....but I'm guessing that the church would rather have these misconceptions remain in place rather than have the truth become widely known.

I find it interesting that when the church first released these numbers on LDS.org the did so  to show just how wonderful they were and how much humanitarian aid they made...and then people began to crunch the numbers and show just how little the church actually paid out...and quickly the church removed the humanitarian aid numbers from their site...so we do know that the church does care about what the actual numbers say...they were embarrassed and removed the evidence.  Imagine if they were held accountable...just how much good could come from transparency...maybe fewer malls would be built...but perhaps...just perhaps some good charity could take place in the world

Edited January 12, 2017 by Johnnie Cake

[Rain]

24 minutes ago, JulieM said:

 

And, why would he need a child allowance?  Maybe he still had children at home?

 

Possible, but unlikely. He was born in 1933. In 2000 he would have been 67. Perhaps a grandchild or other child they were caring for when others couldnt. 

[stemelbow]

4 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

This right HERE...is why the church needs to open their books and become transparent with their finances.  As a tithe payer I used to pay 10's of thousands in tithing each year.  Had I know then that only $1.10 of my thousands in tithing were actually going to humanitarian aid I would have been furious.  I'm only guessing but if a survey were conducted and the average LDS member were asked to estimate how much the church gives in humanitarian aid each year...I'm going to guess that it would be a whole lot more than $1.10 per year.  The only way to remove this misconception is for the church to provide this level of transparency....but I'm guessing that the church would rather have these misconceptions remain in place rather than have the truth become widely known.

 

Did you get your non-believing caboose in trouble with the mods or something?  Is that why I can't give you a rep point?  Although I will say it's a little tacky to tell everyone, even way back when you were a member, that you made so much that you gave 10s of thousands of dollars each year for tithing.  Well mostly because it makes me jealous. 

[JLHPROF]

Del

Edited January 12, 2017 by JLHPROF

[Danzo]

25 minutes ago, JulieM said:

I just read that.  So he only pays tax on part of his income, right? (the $120,000 per year).  I guess they break it down or give allowances that are tax free as one of their benefits.  If I understand correctly....

No income tax on parsonage allowance

There is Social Security Tax on the Parsonage allowance

So He pays less tax on the parsonage but he still pays some tax.

[Danzo]

41 minutes ago, JulieM said:

That contradicts what Robert Smith stated above.  Why give an extra allowance if it's included in the salary?  

Do you have a reference stating the parsonage allowance is included in the $10,000 a month salary?

And, why would he need a child allowance?  Maybe he still had children at home?

i guess a benefit is this makes the allowances tax free (if I'm reading correctly).

A child allowance would not be tax free.

[Tacenda]

46 minutes ago, bluebell said:

And they wear missionary tags.  I only know because we just helped to clean the Mill in Kaysville last Wednesday and got to interact with quite a few.  They often have to give tours and such to non-LDS.

It's pretty cool we live right here in Davis County, we may have crossed paths and not known it! 

[Danzo]

40 minutes ago, Danzo said:

The parsonage allowance should be included on the pay stub.  There are IRS rules that restrict the amount of a parsonage allowance.

Here are the IRS rules on a parsonage allowance

 

• the amount officially designated (in advance of payment) as a housing allowance;
• the amount actually used to provide or rent a home; or
• the fair market rental value of the home (including furnishings, utilities, garage, etc.).

 

Whichever amount is smaller

 

https://www.irs.gov/help-resources/tools-faqs/faqs-for-individuals/frequently-asked-tax-questions-answers/interest-dividends-other-types-of-income/ministers-compensation-housing-allowance/ministers-compensation-housing-allowance

 

[california boy]

12 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Wow... I hope you didn't overlap bishopric and seminary callings for very long.  That would be a killer.

I can't remember exactly how long.  I don't think it was more than a couple of months.  But I have to say, after teaching seminary, it felt like being in the bishopric was a vacation in terms of time spent doing a calling.  In terms of enjoyment, I would rather teach seminary.  But I pretty much hate meetings.  I find them rarely of any value.   I always thought that instead of holding PEC each week, it would have been more productive if each one of those leaders were out visiting someone that actually needed help rather than being in a meeting talking about their problems.

Ok, I will quit.  I am sure I have derailed this thread enough already.

[bluebell]

41 minutes ago, JulieM said:

I just read that.  So he only pays tax on part of his income, right? (the $120,000 per year).  I guess they break it down or give allowances that are tax free as one of their benefits.  If I understand correctly....

Well, if i understand right these figures were from a few years ago when Eyring's stipend was $89,000 for each year.  It looks like this is a break down of his stipend, but i'm not really sure.

[JulieM]

20 minutes ago, Danzo said:

A child allowance would not be tax free.

Oh, ok!  So, just the housing allowance?

Thanks for the help and info 

[Danzo]

5 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Oh, ok!  So, just the housing allowance?

Thanks for the help and info 

remember the housing allowance is not completely tax free, they still pay FICA and Medicare taxes on it, just not income tax.