bluebell Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 2 hours ago, bcuzbcuz said: "She seems aware" "If she 'tolerates' his behaviour, that implies some sort of consent." Wow! You're really opening a can of worms here. "Oh", he pleads, with tears in his eyes, "I thought you knew I was secretly thinking of your sister." You're implying that this man (with the possible engagement of his wife in the agreement) has made an arrangement with the (unmarried) sister to his wife, that, come the afterlife, he will take this sister-in-law into his holy marriage? I would love to be a fly on the wall during the conversation when that husband breaks the news to his wife, "Well, Dear, we no longer need to worry about your unmarried sister. I have had conversations with her and she has agreed to be my second wife in the next world. Isn't that great?" "Oh, and don't worry," he says as some tension slips into his voice and he begins speaking more rapidly, "During those conversations I have never inappropriately touched her in any way." "And she has never touched me in an inappropriate way." "You don't look happy. What's wrong?" Our we talking about an actual sister? I thought cdowis meant a sister at church.
bluebell Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 I think it's really creepy, but i think the morality of it depends on how involved in the choice the wife is. 1
Gray Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 6 minutes ago, bluebell said: I think it's really creepy, but i think the morality of it depends on how involved in the choice the wife is. Yes, it strikes me as creepy too. But I can't think of a church rule being broken. 1
HappyJackWagon Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 10 hours ago, cdowis said: Please note, I am not advocating this arrangement. Only have observed it very rarely and never seen anything written up about this anywhere. Has anyone else seen this, what problems do you foresee, etc. We had a family move into our ward who had this kind of arrangement: Husband, wife, kids, "sister". When I asked who she was I was told that she is a family friend they were helping out. Things seemed strange so I asked again and found out that the wife was really sick and that this other woman "sister" was being integrated into the family so they would have a seamless transition after the wife died. The whole arrangement was for the future, not the present. But then it became known that the "sister" and the husband had exchanged rings and considered themselves "betrothed". It later came out that they were involved in marital relations. I'm not a big fan of slippery slope arguments but this is what I see when I hear about a couple planning on a particular person to join their family as a sister wife. It may be very innocent at first. But at least in the situation I was involved with, as well as another, very similar situation involving a close friend, I would warn individuals of the risks. In both cases, the family blew up. It wasn't sustainable. There was jealousy. Inappropriate feelings and behaviors for a "non-spouse" etc. 4
Gray Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: We had a family move into our ward who had this kind of arrangement: Husband, wife, kids, "sister". When I asked who she was I was told that she is a family friend they were helping out. Things seemed strange so I asked again and found out that the wife was really sick and that this other woman "sister" was being integrated into the family so they would have a seamless transition after the wife died. The whole arrangement was for the future, not the present. But then it became known that the "sister" and the husband had exchanged rings and considered themselves "betrothed". It later came out that they were involved in marital relations. I'm not a big fan of slippery slope arguments but this is what I see when I hear about a couple planning on a particular person to join their family as a sister wife. It may be very innocent at first. But at least in the situation I was involved with, as well as another, very similar situation involving a close friend, I would warn individuals of the risks. In both cases, the family blew up. It wasn't sustainable. There was jealousy. Inappropriate feelings and behaviors for a "non-spouse" etc. Yeah, just like the bad old days. Not a great marital strategy for the most part. 1
HappyJackWagon Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 14 minutes ago, Gray said: Yeah, just like the bad old days. Not a great marital strategy for the most part. I've actually seen this play out in various ways 4 times. 2 were up close and personal, the others I only witnessed from a distance. But it's as if there is some kind of polygamist playbook that they use to slowly indoctrinate individuals into the principal and desensitize a woman who would otherwise have nothing to do with polygamy, start to consider it for "practical" reasons and/or a plan for eternity. 2
Bernard Gui Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, rodheadlee said: Where did you leave the mainland to reach the islands? I did not serve there, but visited once with President Teddy Brewerton. We flew to the islands in a small air taxi from the Canal Zone. The islands had small airstrips cut from the jungle near the beaches 200 or so yards from the islands. This was the usual way to get there. The taxi ride was harrowing. Other access was by barges or larger boats, IIRC, run by Colombian traders. Edited January 9, 2017 by Bernard Gui
Jeanne Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 Whatever happened to just "love the one you're with"? I don't like anything about it..in confines within and out of the church. I don't condemn anyone for what they believe or how they want to live..but to me..it is so tacky. 2
Raingirl Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 10 hours ago, cdowis said: This is rather a difficult question and don't have enough information to give a definitive answer. Let me speak in general for both couples. The wife will notice the time and attention that he gives the friend. She seems aware and accepts the fact that, for him, polygamy will be a part of their future in the next life. If she "tolerates" his behaviour, that implies some sort of consent. Even most in the secular world acknowledge that an emotional affair is wrong. But some guy in the church comes up with some BS that it's just another version of polygamy, so it's all cool and church and God-sanctioned? 4
cdowis Posted January 9, 2017 Author Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) del Edited January 9, 2017 by cdowis
bcuzbcuz Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 9 hours ago, cdowis said: But what about a "sister -- wife" arrangement? The obvious questions, but let's assume there is no physical intimacy between them and they are generally circumspect about their relationship. Is this fundamentally wrong? How is this different from an internet fantasy? No physical intimacy and generally circumspect? Yup, sounds like an internet fantasy "relationship". Is this fundamentally wrong? Duuh. 3
cdowis Posted January 9, 2017 Author Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) I probably should not have started this topic because there will be those who see this as a sexual relationship. Edited January 9, 2017 by cdowis
bcuzbcuz Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 3 hours ago, bluebell said: Our we talking about an actual sister? I thought cdowis meant a sister at church. I read it as an "(unmarried) sister to his wife." If he meant a "sister at church" would she not also be a sister to himself? Yuck!
bluebell Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, bcuzbcuz said: I read it as an "(unmarried) sister to his wife." If he meant a "sister at church" would she not also be a sister to himself? Yuck! Well, that's true for every church member before they marry (regardless of denomination) that has the belief that we're all brothers and sisters in Christ so I don't see a yuck factor in that. My question was more about accuracy (because i wasn't sure which was being referred to after your post) and not because one would be more or less 'yucky' than the other.
bcuzbcuz Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 22 minutes ago, cdowis said: Any relationship requires "following the rules" == only meet in safe conditions -- This relationship now is seen as brother - sister, father - daughter, uncle- niece, etc. I came to realize fom them that a father can have a warm relationship with a favorite daughter -- "I adore her" I was blown away when I happened to fun across one of them on a "date" at a museum. I stopped and chatted with them. She was from a rather distant ward. I realized that this was a father and daughter date, although it otherwise broke all the rules of caution. Now you're just getting creepy. 1
Sleeper Cell Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 34 minutes ago, cdowis said: Any relationship requires "following the rules" == only meet in safe conditions -- in the hallway after class, no secret meetings. Your wife knows that you are talking with her etc. Have a strict rule about email and online communication. From my observations, they have been able to build an additional safety protocol by seeing this as "In the next life, I want her to join my family". This relationship now is seen as brother - sister, father - daughter, uncle- niece, etc. I came to realize fom them that a father can have a warm relationship with a favorite daughter -- "I adore her" and the friend is not seen as competing with the wife, but merely as addition to the family. I was blown away when I happened to fun across one of them on a "date" at a museum. I stopped and chatted with them. She was from a rather distant ward. I realized that this was a father and daughter date, although it otherwise broke all the rules of caution. Except with a real “father-daughter” relationship, neither remotely contemplates the possibility of marriage -- even in the next life. 4
VideoGameJunkie Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) I always had a question to people who believe in polygamy in the afterlife. That question is what is the exact number of spouses do you think you'll have? 4? 20? 2 thousand? What's the limit and where are all these extra women supposed to come from to give every worthy man a fair amount of extra wives? The logistics of eternal polygamy doesn't make sense to me. Edited January 9, 2017 by VideoGameJunkie
CV75 Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, cdowis said: I probably should not have started this topic because there will be those who see this as a sexual relationship. I think the arrangement is fundamentally wrong in that the proposal isn't that the man's father adopt the woman as a daughter to make them brother and sister. They both jump to the marriage scenario, and it is really difficult to accept the desexualization of a healthy marriage. The genders make it sexual, no matter what else doesn't happen to render other aspects of the relationship asexual. Edited January 9, 2017 by CV75 2
Popular Post HappyJackWagon Posted January 9, 2017 Popular Post Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) Quote 1 hour ago, cdowis said: Any relationship requires "following the rules" == only meet in safe conditions -- in the hallway after class, no secret meetings. Your wife knows that you are talking with her etc. Have a strict rule about email and online communication. From my observations, they have been able to build an additional safety protocol by seeing this as "In the next life, I want her to join my family". This relationship now is seen as brother - sister, father - daughter, uncle- niece, etc. I came to realize fom them that a father can have a warm relationship with a favorite daughter -- "I adore her" and the friend is not seen as competing with the wife, but merely as addition to the family. I was blown away when I happened to fun across one of them on a "date" at a museum. I stopped and chatted with them. She was from a rather distant ward. I realized that this was a father and daughter date, although it otherwise broke all the rules of caution. This really isn't a normal relationship. It's not a father-daughter date 1- because they're unrelated adults 2- fathers and daughters don't plan on being sealed in an eternal marriage. This is a comical justification for this man introducing the woman to a polygamous relationship. I would wager that there is much more to this story and that it doesn't end well for this man and his current wife Edited January 9, 2017 by HappyJackWagon 5
HappyJackWagon Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) Quote Del- Dup Edited January 9, 2017 by HappyJackWagon
The Nehor Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 34 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said: I always had a question to people who believe in polygamy in the afterlife. That question is what is the exact number of spouses do you think you'll have? 4? 20? 2 thousand? What's the limit and where are all these extra women supposed to come from to give every worthy man a fair amount of extra wives? The logistics of eternal polygamy doesn't make sense to me. As many as I love and need and who love and need me. So far zero.
The Nehor Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 4 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said: I've actually seen this play out in various ways 4 times. 2 were up close and personal, the others I only witnessed from a distance. But it's as if there is some kind of polygamist playbook that they use to slowly indoctrinate individuals into the principal and desensitize a woman who would otherwise have nothing to do with polygamy, start to consider it for "practical" reasons and/or a plan for eternity. Fun fact: It is also how incestuous and other predatory relationships are justified. 4
CV75 Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 1 hour ago, The Nehor said: As many as I love and need and who love and need me. So far zero. Don't give up hope! They didn't call her Pollgynanna for nothing!
Calm Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 7 hours ago, bluebell said: Our we talking about an actual sister? I thought cdowis meant a sister at church. Or just using the "sister wife" term for a plural wife.
JLHPROF Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 7 hours ago, bluebell said: I think it's really creepy, but i think the morality of it depends on how involved in the choice the wife is. I think the morality of it depends on how involved in the choice God is.
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