Bobbieaware Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 10 hours ago, Duncan said: his brietbart website? take a look at that prize.Where this smoke and all, I highly doubt everyone is lying against this guy. The guy is trouble all over the place and the American people fought a war over people like him and now they let him in the White House-appropriately named of course.................... I don't know anything about the UN/US relations so I can't speak to that. You're not carefully reading my posts. Please go to the Bietbart website and find one quote there that clearly demonstrates Steve Bannon is a racist with Nazi tendencies and then post that quote here. The last quotes you provided failed miserably to prove Bannon is a racist. Are you aware of the fact that Alan Dershowitz, one of Americas's foremost liberals, says the talk about Bannon being a racist is nonsense?
Scott Lloyd Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 1 hour ago, bsjkki said: I just read this story about how Bill and Hillary have decided to attend the inauguration. I guess that means they are endorsing Trump according to much of the logic displayed on this thread. Hillary is attending but a MTC choir member thinks it's like supporting Hitler. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/01/bill-and-hillary-clinton-will-attend-the-trump-inauguration.html George W. Bush and his wife are also attending even though they did not vote for Trump. This is how we should come together for the good of the country and the peaceful transfer of power. Jimmy Carter earlier announced he would be attending. Correction: A <former> choir member thinks it's like supporting Hitler.
Duncan Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 Just now, Bobbieaware said: You're not carefully reading my posts. Please go to the Bietbart website and find one quote there that clearly demonstrates Steve Bannon is a racist with Nazi tendencies and then post that quote here. The last quotes you provided failed miserably to prove Bannon is a racist. Are you aware of the fact that Alan Dershowitz, one of Americas's foremost liberals, says the talk about Bannon being a racist is nonsense? I am carefully reading your posts, is why I am responding to them? oh sorry he's not racist, he's an "economic nationalist" “Like [Andrew] Jackson’s populism, we’re going to build an entirely new political movement,” he says. “It’s everything related to jobs. The conservatives are going to go crazy. I’m the guy pushing a trillion-dollar infrastructure plan. With negative interest rates throughout the world, it’s the greatest opportunity to rebuild everything. Ship yards, iron works, get them all jacked up. We’re just going to throw it up against the wall and see if it sticks. It will be as exciting as the 1930s, greater than the Reagan revolution — conservatives, plus populists, in an economic nationalist movement.” exciting as the 1930's, WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW-enjoy that ride
The Nehor Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 38 minutes ago, Bobbieaware said: You're not carefully reading my posts. Please go to the Bietbart website and find one quote there that clearly demonstrates Steve Bannon is a racist with Nazi tendencies and then post that quote here. The last quotes you provided failed miserably to prove Bannon is a racist. Are you aware of the fact that Alan Dershowitz, one of Americas's foremost liberals, says the talk about Bannon being a racist is nonsense? I am not convinced he is racist. He sure does court racists though. If I were running a new site and it was regularly being said that I was becoming the news site that white supremacists go to I would re-evaluate what I was doing and then throw a diatribe at them telling them to go away and stop reading my stuff. 3
The Nehor Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, Duncan said: I am carefully reading your posts, is why I am responding to them? oh sorry he's not racist, he's an "economic nationalist" “Like [Andrew] Jackson’s populism, we’re going to build an entirely new political movement,” he says. “It’s everything related to jobs. The conservatives are going to go crazy. I’m the guy pushing a trillion-dollar infrastructure plan. With negative interest rates throughout the world, it’s the greatest opportunity to rebuild everything. Ship yards, iron works, get them all jacked up. We’re just going to throw it up against the wall and see if it sticks. It will be as exciting as the 1930s, greater than the Reagan revolution — conservatives, plus populists, in an economic nationalist movement.” exciting as the 1930's, WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW-enjoy that ride Did anyone volunteer to invade Poland yet?
Duncan Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 Just now, The Nehor said: Did anyone volunteer to invade Poland yet? I haven't seen a sign up sheet yet!
The Nehor Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, Duncan said: I haven't seen a sign up sheet yet! It was passed around all month in Elder's Quorum. I think everyone ignored it. 1
Jeanne Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, The Nehor said: It was passed around all month in Elder's Quorum. I think everyone ignored it.
Robert F. Smith Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 19 hours ago, Calm said: Who around Trump has gone to prison? I am aware of legal stuff he has been involved in (lots of sites like to summarize those), haven't spent much time finding out about the people around him. Richard Nixon didn't have his immediate staff and cabinet going to Federal Prison until he became President. He may have thought that being Pres made him immune to the Law. Give the Donald time to get sworn in and rolling. It will all be downhill from that point on. 2
Tacenda Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 http://www.upworthy.com/need-a-reminder-that-your-voice-matters-check-out-21-quotes-from-women-who-spoke-up?c=ufb1
bsjkki Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 I enjoyed this take on the controversy...we haven't really looked at it from this perspective in this thread. "Is there anyone in the presidential congregation that the Mormon Tabernacle Choir could sing for that is worse than King Lamoni, or the pre-converted missionaries that eventually went and preached to King Lamoni. What if Ammon and Aaron were like, “No… we’re not going to go to Lamoni and the Laminites because they are the very vilest of sinners.” Instead… they went to them because they were the very vilest of sinners. (Mosiah 28:3-4) Christ said over and over again that the “whole need not the physician… but they that are sick.” Also… “I came not to call the righteous to repentance, but the wicked.” Who at that inauguration could be worse than Paul as he stood by and held the clothes of his buddies while they murdered the disciple Steven? (Acts 7:55-56) Yet… we quote Paul in the churches of America possibly more than any other apostle. Who knows when someone might repent and change. One thing is certain… withdrawing one’s self from an opportunity to let their light shine is not in harmony with the teachings of Jesus Christ. He needs lights on a hill… not candles under a bushel. So here we are in the world… this great church… with this great choir. But one of the Mormon Tabernacle choir singers decided to make a public statement and quit on principle. What we have now is one person who has stolen the show and is receiving a great deal of fame and attention while each of the other members of the Mormon Tabernacle choir who have decided to sing for America and let their light shine for all the world to see, are overlooked, forgotten, and possibly even shamed by people." http://www.gregtrimble.com/a-huge-thank-you-to-each-motab-singer-who-has-decided-to-stay-and-sing/ 2
Duncan Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 Remember that Chad Hardy guy? he got exed a few years ago for making those dirty calendars, I wonder what he thinks about the choir singing for Trump? the irony would be ripe 1
Bernard Gui Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 On January 2, 2017 at 2:46 PM, Robert F. Smith said: Is that like waiting for Godot? Or would it be better to go with Pogo Possum: "We have met the enemy, and he is us." Time will tell. I remeber the dismay when Clinton and the current President won their elections. We will survive. 1
bsjkki Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) It makes me sad that she is the headline story of sltrib.com. She is looking to capitalize on her 15 minutes. I think she is enjoying the attention. "She said she will miss the choir, but that she hopes to launch a blog to build a "constructive conversation" on how to "protect our freedoms" and vows to "stand up for all people who have been victims." http://www.sltrib.com/lifestyle/faith/4777584-155/moral-issue-not-politics-led-mormon?fullpage=1 For claiming to love the choir, she sure seems to be doing her best to damage its reputation--her actions have certainly not helped the choirs reputation. From the article, " She wanted instead to raise public awareness about what she sees as the incoming president's lurking fascism and potential damage to her beloved chorus's reputation." Edited January 4, 2017 by bsjkki fixed link 2
The Nehor Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 2 hours ago, bsjkki said: I enjoyed this take on the controversy...we haven't really looked at it from this perspective in this thread. "Is there anyone in the presidential congregation that the Mormon Tabernacle Choir could sing for that is worse than King Lamoni, or the pre-converted missionaries that eventually went and preached to King Lamoni. What if Ammon and Aaron were like, “No… we’re not going to go to Lamoni and the Laminites because they are the very vilest of sinners.” Instead… they went to them because they were the very vilest of sinners. (Mosiah 28:3-4) Christ said over and over again that the “whole need not the physician… but they that are sick.” Also… “I came not to call the righteous to repentance, but the wicked.” Who at that inauguration could be worse than Paul as he stood by and held the clothes of his buddies while they murdered the disciple Steven? (Acts 7:55-56) Yet… we quote Paul in the churches of America possibly more than any other apostle. Who knows when someone might repent and change. One thing is certain… withdrawing one’s self from an opportunity to let their light shine is not in harmony with the teachings of Jesus Christ. He needs lights on a hill… not candles under a bushel. So here we are in the world… this great church… with this great choir. But one of the Mormon Tabernacle choir singers decided to make a public statement and quit on principle. What we have now is one person who has stolen the show and is receiving a great deal of fame and attention while each of the other members of the Mormon Tabernacle choir who have decided to sing for America and let their light shine for all the world to see, are overlooked, forgotten, and possibly even shamed by people." http://www.gregtrimble.com/a-huge-thank-you-to-each-motab-singer-who-has-decided-to-stay-and-sing/ I think the analogy is a little strained. Our missionaries talk to everyone to teach the gospel. Is the Mormon Tabernacle Choir showing up to preach to Trump? 2
The Nehor Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 3 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: Richard Nixon didn't have his immediate staff and cabinet going to Federal Prison until he became President. He may have thought that being Pres made him immune to the Law. Give the Donald time to get sworn in and rolling. It will all be downhill from that point on. I hope you are wrong but I suspect you are right. He has so far cast off the idea of draining the swamp. He did at least make it more efficient. Why make the people who need to lobby for their interests use lobbyists when you can just give them the positions themselves? Cuts out the middleman. 1
bsjkki Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 1 minute ago, The Nehor said: I think the analogy is a little strained. Our missionaries talk to everyone to teach the gospel. Is the Mormon Tabernacle Choir showing up to preach to Trump? They will be spreading the gospel with their music and voices! I often have spiritual experiences while listening to music. They will be not just preaching to Trump but to everyone who hears them. What an immense opportunity to spread the "good news."
Calm Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, The Nehor said: I think the analogy is a little strained. Our missionaries talk to everyone to teach the gospel. Is the Mormon Tabernacle Choir showing up to preach to Trump? They are opening the door. Ammon didn't start out with preaching, he started with service. 4
Meadowchik Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 7 hours ago, bluebell said: I'm sorry if you take issue with the term 'the same.' I'll amend it and say that you provided an example of how they are comparable. I'm fine with our conversation ending though. I think we've probably said everything to each other that needs to be said. Time to move on. It was funny that you take such issue with comparisons to Hitler but had no trouble simplifying my characterisation, in effect, enhancing that characterisation to Hitler to an absolute equivalence! The essential problem with reductio ad hitlerum is what you had just done, mass generalisation. It tends to exploit one atrocity for its emotional capital. But there is even a worse problem, which is to characterise genuine comparisons as mere rhetorical over-generalisation. That generates the opposite intended effect: providing a protective shield over very bad things as soon as they're compared to the Holocaust. I'm glad that at least we both agree that the nature of emotional politicization as part of Trump's movement is concerning.
Meadowchik Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, bsjkki said: They will be spreading the gospel with their music and voices! I often have spiritual experiences while listening to music. They will be not just preaching to Trump but to everyone who hears them. What an immense opportunity to spread the "good news." Or they may forever associate the choir with Trump's brand of profanity. The Motab has a very distinctive sound and appearance. Wouldn't it be sad if in the future people will be more likely to cynically think of Trump's conduct when they hear the hundreds of voices singing angelicly instead of Christ? Part of this is just because of Trump's use of the internet age. His is the first inauguration for which they'll sing in this age of smart phones, Twitter, and mass saturation news. He didn't distance himself from that 24hr-triviality fest, but overused it. Now his indiscreet demeanor is not something only his closest aides will write about in 20 years, it's on full display now. And now the gospel message as taught by the LDS Church will be associated with it. Edited January 4, 2017 by Meadowchik
Robert F. Smith Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said: Time will tell. I remeber the dismay when Clinton and the current President won their elections. We will survive. Thank you for that. Very nice. I was once a specialist in Russian language, culture, music, politics, and gov't -- brought back some balalaika memories. I can't think of any presidents elected in my lifetime who were greeted with inordinate dismay on their inauguration, and that's about 13 of them. This or that party has always come into office with a lot of good will from the opposition, and nearly everyone behaved in a very civil manner. Even taking into account the recent dysfunctional Congress, there is no precedent for the type of nonsense we see with our incoming President -- and the dangers are quite real. 2
Scott Lloyd Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: Thank you for that. Very nice. I was once a specialist in Russian language, culture, music, politics, and gov't -- brought back some balalaika memories. I can't think of any presidents elected in my lifetime who were greeted with inordinate dismay on their inauguration, and that's about 13 of them. This or that party has always come into office with a lot of good will from the opposition, and nearly everyone behaved in a very civil manner. Even taking into account the recent dysfunctional Congress, there is no precedent for the type of nonsense we see with our incoming President -- and the dangers are quite real. Can't tell from this whether you're indicting Trump or the anti-Trumpites.
Scott Lloyd Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 16 minutes ago, Meadowchik said: Or they may forever associate the choir with Trump's brand of profanity. The Motab has a very distinctive sound and appearance. Wouldn't it be sad if in the future people will be more likely to cynically think of Trump's conduct when they hear the hundreds of voices singing angelicly instead of Christ? Part of this is just because of Trump's use of the internet age. His is the first inauguration for which they'll sing in this age of smart phones, Twitter, and mass saturation news. He didn't distance himself from that 24hr-triviality fest, but overused it. Now his indiscreet demeanor is not something only his closest aides will write about in 20 years, it's on full display now. And now the gospel message as taught by the LDS Church will be associated with it. Well, you've put a brand new spin on guilt-by-association. An application for a new, cyber age. Very innovative, even if it is a bit of a stretch.
Robert F. Smith Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Can't tell from this whether you're indicting Trump or the anti-Trumpites. Could go both ways, given the levels of hysteria we have seen. There is even the danger that the Donald's own people may soon come to be unhappy with him -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmCZ_ZQyfgI .
Calm Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Meadowchik said: . But there is even a worse problem, which is to characterise genuine comparisons as mere rhetorical over-generalisation. I feel like you misread bluebell, she stated in my opinion that she was accepting the reasoning to change it to the same language you are saying here: you made a comparison. 1
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