President Uchtdorf on being distracted from life-changing truths

[Scott Lloyd]

In reading proofs, I came across this statement from President Uchtdorf's Saturday morning address:

Quote

Too often we let ourselves be distracted by the imperfections of our fellow-members instead of following the example of our Master. We tread a path covered with diamonds but we can scarcely distinguish them from ordinary pebbles.

 

[Duncan]

here's my question, where do we draw the line between letting it go, motes and beams and being like well..........maybe you shouldn't be doing that, saying that. For example if someone is stealing tithing do I just let it go, I got my own issues to work out or do I say something?

[Scott Lloyd]

10 minutes ago, Duncan said:

here's my question, where do we draw the line between letting it go, motes and beams and being like well..........maybe you shouldn't be doing that, saying that. For example if someone is stealing tithing do I just let it go, I got my own issues to work out or do I say something?

Whether or not you say something in that instance strikes me as a separate issue from whether or not you conclude that the Church of Jesus Christ is nothing special just because it has imperfect people on its membership records -- or even on its leadership rolls.

 

[cinepro]

12 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Whether or not you say something in that instance strikes me as a separate issue from whether or not you conclude that the Church of Jesus Christ is nothing special just because it has imperfect people on its membership records -- or even on its leadership rolls.

 

I agree.  "By their fruits ye shall know them."

 

Edit: Oops. Posted to the wrong thread accidentally.  Ignore the fruit! Keep going to Church!

 

 

Edited October 4, 2016 by cinepro

[hope_for_things]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

In reading proofs, I came across this statement from President Uchtdorf's Saturday morning address:

 

I agree with the sentiment.  I think this is all to common in our busy society as well.  We often lose focus from our ultimate goal, and get distracted. 

As with most any ideal, we can turn this around and ask, how often do we intentionally ignore little things because of our focus on the big picture.  Things or people that are important, but that don't make a lot of noise, or things that make noise, but that we tune out because we're uncomfortable with them.  Sometimes we need to leave the 99 to focus on the 1.  

[Boanerges]

Wasn't this same idea also the point (or at least part of the point) of Elder Cook's remarks about missing the mark?

[theplains]

On 04/10/2016 at 2:11 PM, Scott Lloyd said:

In reading proofs, I came across this statement from President Uchtdorf's Saturday morning address:

 

Despite Joseph Smith claiming to have seen Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ (his supposedly
life-changing truth), he became distracted in the years afterwards.

"During the space of time which intervened between the time I had the vision and the year 
eighteen hundred and twenty-three—having been forbidden to join any of the religious 
sects of the day, and being of very tender years, and persecuted by those who ought to 
have been my friends and to have treated me kindly, and if they supposed me to be deluded 
to have endeavored in a proper and affectionate manner to have reclaimed me—I was left to 
all kinds of temptations; and, mingling with all kinds of society, I frequently fell into 
many foolish errors, and displayed the weakness of youth, and the foibles of human nature; 
which, I am sorry to say, led me into divers temptations, offensive in the sight of God."

If Smith could get distracted, so can you.

Regards,
Jim

[Scott Lloyd]

3 hours ago, theplains said:

Despite Joseph Smith claiming to have seen Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ (his supposedly
life-changing truth), he became distracted in the years afterwards.

"During the space of time which intervened between the time I had the vision and the year 
eighteen hundred and twenty-three—having been forbidden to join any of the religious 
sects of the day, and being of very tender years, and persecuted by those who ought to 
have been my friends and to have treated me kindly, and if they supposed me to be deluded 
to have endeavored in a proper and affectionate manner to have reclaimed me—I was left to 
all kinds of temptations; and, mingling with all kinds of society, I frequently fell into 
many foolish errors, and displayed the weakness of youth, and the foibles of human nature; 
which, I am sorry to say, led me into divers temptations, offensive in the sight of God."

If Smith could get distracted, so can you.

Regards,
Jim

Yes, it's a tendency to which humans are prone.

Incidentally, I think some have been all-too-eager to read into this passage from Joseph Smtih's writings misbehavior that wasn't there.

I believe that, given his divine calling, he held the bar pretty high for himself. I'm confident he was a far better man than the best of his critics.

In the above recollection, he goes on to say in a portion that you didn't quote that one need not suppose him guilty of any great or "malignant" sins, that such was never in his character.

[Kenngo1969]

16 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

... In the above recollection, he goes on to say in a portion that you didn't quote that one need not suppose him guilty of any great or "malignant" sins, that such was never in his character.

Scott, ya big party-pooper, it's much more fun to quote selectively, don'tcha know?!!  

[stemelbow]

Quote

Life-changing truths are before our eyes and at our fingertips, but sometimes we sleepwalk on the path of discipleship.

This was the sentence just before the one you quoted, Scott. 

I think he'd be speaking of me, particularly if he knew me.  I really struggle seeing the purpose of much of what we do in Church.  I feel rather connected with God in a lot of ways, but when it comes to Church I'm clearly distracted with the notion of wanting to see change.  Sometimes I have myself convinced my distraction is exactly what God wants from me, continuing to push for a different perspective as we often just hear repeat after repeat from the status quo in Church.  I know many push back at me suggesting who am I to push for change?  I just plain, most often, disagree with the point of that question.  I don't often focus on the weakness of the members but I admit I question whether the Church and it's members do what is suggested--helping us improve and become better.  It's easy enough to see many more good people outside the Church than in it.  I don't say that to suggest the Church members are problems, because I do love my fellow members, but just that they are no more blessed or better off than others.  So when President Uchtdorf starts this thought out with:

Quote

Considering all of this, how could it ever be possible that we of all people would not be excited about attending our Church worship services? Or get tired of reading the holy scriptures? I suppose this could be possible only if our hearts were past feeling to experience gratitude and awe for the sacred and sublime gifts God has granted us.

I guess I just see it differently than he.  I dont' feel any more blessed than others.  Luckily, though, I realize I'm not anything special so I can't really be one of  those of the elect that are deceived.  I'm just some fool who has this astoundingly strong desire to stay with the Church even while disagreeing with it so much. 

[theplains]

On 09/10/2016 at 5:50 PM, Scott Lloyd said:

In the above recollection, he goes on to say in a portion that you didn't quote that one need not suppose him guilty of any great or "malignant" sins, that such was never in his character.

Humans may have a sin scale (murder worse than theft, etc), but sin is sin.  Some believe Smith was guilty
of a very great sin - leading people to worship a man who is taught to have become a God (i.e. Heavenly
Father). If Heavenly Father has always been God (God from everlasting to everlasting), then Joseph
introduced a false god.

Thanks,
Jim

[Scott Lloyd]

4 hours ago, theplains said:

Humans may have a sin scale (murder worse than theft, etc), but sin is sin.  Some believe Smith was guilty
of a very great sin - leading people to worship a man who is taught to have become a God (i.e. Heavenly
Father). If Heavenly Father has always been God (God from everlasting to everlasting), then Joseph
introduced a false god.

Thanks,
Jim

So teaching theological concepts you disagree with is the thing that, in your eyes, makes him a "very great" sinner.  I'm glad we've been able to clarify that for people who might be reading this thread. 

And furthermore, I'm grateful to belong to a faith tradition that doesn't view other faith traditions so intolerantly. 

[Gray]

11 hours ago, theplains said:

Humans may have a sin scale (murder worse than theft, etc), but sin is sin.  Some believe Smith was guilty
of a very great sin - leading people to worship a man who is taught to have become a God (i.e. Heavenly
Father). If Heavenly Father has always been God (God from everlasting to everlasting), then Joseph
introduced a false god.

Thanks,
Jim

I think it's hilarious that we always think we can put God in a narrow box and with all our certain-sounding definitions. As if anyone is able to really wrap their minds around what God is (whether it's you, me, Joseph Smith, or the council of Nicea).

Edited October 12, 2016 by Gray

[theplains]

On 12/10/2016 at 2:52 AM, Scott Lloyd said:

And furthermore, I'm grateful to belong to a faith tradition that doesn't view other faith traditions so intolerantly. 

Various Christians groups tolerate each other's faith traditions even though they don't agree with some
aspects.   Saying that some religion's teaching is false should not be viewed as intolerance.  

Jim

[theplains]

On 12/10/2016 at 10:44 AM, Gray said:

I think it's hilarious that we always think we can put God in a narrow box and with all our certain-sounding definitions. As if anyone is able to really wrap their minds around what God is (whether it's you, me, Joseph Smith, or the council of Nicea).

Either Heavenly Father has always been God (from everlasting to everlasting) or he is an exalted
man.  Take your pick.  

Thanks,
Jim

[Scott Lloyd]

4 hours ago, theplains said:

Various Christians groups tolerate each other's faith traditions even though they don't agree with some
aspects.   Saying that some religion's teaching is false should not be viewed as intolerance.  

Jim

Saying that a person's disagreement with you over theology makes that person a "great sinner" strikes me as intolerant.

[Gray]

12 hours ago, theplains said:

Either Heavenly Father has always been God (from everlasting to everlasting) or he is an exalted
man.  Take your pick.  

Thanks,
Jim

It could only be either of those two things?

[Tacenda]

I saw this on FB, it's very thought provoking to say the least.

[Jeanne]

Oh Tacenda...I love the above video.  For me,  it is a realization that none of us really know.  I believe..(don't know)  that God would not have made mistakes.  Thank you for this.

[theplains]

17 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Saying that a person's disagreement with you over theology makes that person a "great sinner" strikes me as intolerant.

What I said was that Joseph would be a great sinner if his teaching that Heavenly Father is not God from
everlasting to everlasting is false.

Thanks,
Jim

[theplains]

9 hours ago, Gray said:

It could only be either of those two things?

Let me know if you had a third option in mind.

Thanks,
Jim

[Gray]

4 hours ago, theplains said:

Let me know if you had a third option in mind.

Thanks,
Jim

There are hundreds if not thousands of different concepts for God

[The Nehor]

On 10/4/2016 at 2:52 PM, cinepro said:

I agree.  "By their fruits ye shall know them."

 

Edit: Oops. Posted to the wrong thread accidentally.  Ignore the fruit! Keep going to Church!

 

 

But every time we try to throw out the bad trees that sneak into the vineyard our critics scream about how snobbish and exclusive we are. It is almost as if nothing would make them happy with us. And we try sooooo hard to please them.....  

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Gray said:

There are hundreds if not thousands of different concepts for God

Yes, but let's face it. Most of them are stupid.

[Tacenda]

On 10/13/2016 at 6:39 PM, theplains said:

Either Heavenly Father has always been God (from everlasting to everlasting) or he is an exalted
man.  Take your pick.  

Thanks,
Jim

Jim, surely you know that LDS think both are correct.