Penthouse doesn't like Church's anti-porn stance

[salgare]

2 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

That's right.  Let's blame the victim.

limited posts ... seems I get a few more now.  Who mentioned a victim?  I'm talking perceptions of the world of  that  bigoted cult which exists which desires to control the members sexual behaviors, you know that polygamist ones, yea the ones that persecute children of gays.

Enforce your light upon that hill top I suppose, it continues to work so well for the real members, but of course these are the mouth pieces of the Lord Jesus Christ. 

Edited August 4, 2016 by salgare

[TheSkepticChristian]

1 hour ago, Vance said:

Does not equal number of rapes per 100,000.  Your data may simply be an indication that conservatives are more likely to REPORT a rape than a liberal.

That is just your assumption, you didn't present any evidence, where is it? Your assumption also contradicts the data, how come solid republican Alabama is doing better than solid democratic Illinois? Alabama doesn't report?  

How about suicide? Don't tell me conservatives are more likely to report suicide. 

Notice how solid democratic states tend to have lower suicide rates? 

52 minutes ago, Calm said:

Looks

Map from FairMormon, is that okay? 

Edited August 4, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian

[salgare]

talking about fighting pornography, any one seen JD's latest leaks about the Church backing away from banning LGBT children from baptism?  I'd start a new thread, but censoring is a true principle.

 

who needs transparency when you have jd?

Edited August 4, 2016 by salgare

[The Nehor]

Next you will be telling me that big tobacco doesn't like the Word of Wisdom.

[TheSkepticChristian]

 

Any evidence that porn creates sexual predators? 

Any evidence that porn destroys nonreligious families that don't see it as a dirty sin? 

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Next you will be telling me that big tobacco doesn't like the Word of Wisdom.

Note: There is NO Porn in the video 

 

Edited August 4, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian

[BlueDreams]

5 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

I want to know how is porn harmful? You think pornography makes sexual predators?

 

Well I'm a sex therapist. Pretty much a fence sitter in this debate because I think both ends are too extreme in their dialogue. And I also am really hating porn right now. Like really hate it right now. If you were to ask me it's like asking a nutritionist what's wrong with McDonald's. Is one trip to it going to kill you? Well no of course not. Is it part of an endemic problem with malnutrition. You better believe it.

I currently want to work on my own model about porn, but it's currently somewhere between alcohol and food disorders to me. It's like alcohol in the sense that you can use it responsibly. I've met couples who do and it's just some added spice to their sex life. But there are a plethora of ways that you can use it irresponsibly and it REALLY should not be in the hands of an 11 year old. Or teens in general. Or younger. But because it's so unregulated that's exactly what is likely to happen these days. 

And not all (or most) porn viewers are addicts. Most fall into a gray range of heavy users to occasional purveyors but the problems I've seen in my office that surround porn are as follows:

performance anxiety

erectile dysfunction in your 20's

Desensitization to normative sex

pushing sexual boundaries 

inappropriate sexual behaviors

poor understanding of relational sex

feelings of sexual/physical inadequacy for the wife especially

lack of knowledge of female sexuality mixed with an assumption that they know female sexuality 

lower sexual satisfaction in marriage

Sexual coercion of one's partner

lower desire for relational sex

lower satisfaction in relational sex

childhood trauma when children walk in on parents

abuse of children (purposeful or negligent exposure of children to it) 

other forms of sexual abuse 

severe marital disruption...this has included separation, volatile family situations, divorce, etc.

Loss of faith, spirituality, etc 

exacerbating pre-existing mental health problems (depression, anxiety, ADHD, being the ones I see the most) 

and attitude of penetrative sex as a "need" that must be met.

a ton of objectification of women and obsessive focus on the sexuality of women. I've had a number of clients get triggered by me and then have difficulty interacting/looking me in the face 

  ---oh yeah...interacting with women---

Suspending emotional development and maturation, particularly if it was heavy use in their teens. Porn was an emotional bandaid...so they struggle to engage emotionally in healthy ways

complete death of their marital sex life. (Usually with addiction) 

I could probably go on. But I'm tired. So bedtime. 

 

With luv, 

BD

 

 

[ALarson]

9 hours ago, salgare said:

talking about fighting pornography, any one seen JD's latest leaks about the Church backing away from banning LGBT children from baptism?  I'd start a new thread, but censoring is a true principle.

 

who needs transparency when you have jd?

Do you have a link for this?

(Maybe post this over in the thread about missionaries leaving and lower baptism rates?)

I find it highly unlikely that the leaders would back away from this (not yet anyway), but who knows?

[JAHS]

From another article:

"The magazine's editor, Raphie Aronowitz, admits the move was aimed to agitate. 
"We wanted to show these guys that them imposing their views on us and bringing their values to our doorstep is just as irritating as us doing the same do them,"  http://www.independent.com.mt/articles/2016-08-04/world-news/Penthouse-magazine-targets-Utah-for-declaring-porn-a-health-crisis-6736161958

I doubt Utah and church leaders were agitated about getting the magazines; they probably just laughed at it and properly placed them the round file cabinet.
People who are agitated about the church "imposing" their views on them, are only displaying their lack of confidence in their own views.

[salgare]

50 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Do you have a link for this?

(Maybe post this over in the thread about missionaries leaving and lower baptism rates?)

I find it highly unlikely that the leaders would back away from this (not yet anyway), but who knows?

https://m.facebook.com/johndehlin/posts/975183618279

[Scott Lloyd]

10 hours ago, salgare said:

limited posts ... seems I get a few more now.  Who mentioned a victim?  I'm talking perceptions of the world of  that  bigoted cult which exists which desires to control the members sexual behaviors, you know that polygamist ones, yea the ones that persecute children of gays.

Enforce your light upon that hill top I suppose, it continues to work so well for the real members, but of course these are the mouth pieces of the Lord Jesus Christ. 

The day a vile porn magazine endorses or approves of the Church of Jesus Christ is the day I get worried about our public image. 

[jkwilliams]

7 minutes ago, salgare said:

https://m.facebook.com/johndehlin/posts/975183618279

Yeah, a good friend of mine told me he has heard the same thing from contacts within the COB and also from an apostle's family. I don't put a lot of stock into it. 

[BlueDreams]

7 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

 

Any evidence that porn creates sexual predators? 

Any evidence that porn destroys nonreligious families that don't see it as a dirty 

I didn't notice these 2 points. On your first I think that's a difficult point to prove. Because it's difficult to separate related factors. But I've seen a few cases where that could definitely be argued, particularly with children exposed to porn. Most aren't sexual predators for life or anything but their exposure at young ages can be at the time that they don't know boundaries and will also want to try some of the things they've seen. For example I had a client who I was work with on sexual anxiety and severe anxiety triggers to sexual touch who had these because she was molested by a young child as a young child. The predation was because that young child saw porn in the household. A couple more have problems in their adulthood with inappropriate sexual behavior including predation. But theirs would be a question of what came first. 

As for non-LDS. I work in UT. So a good chunk of my clients are LDS. But I do have a number who are non-religious. Some of them have really painful tales that include porn. For confidentiality i cannot go into details so I'll talk in trends. But a couple of them had left the church in part because of the dissonance in them about their partner's sexual habits that included porn. They assume that removing their hold ups will make their sense that this is not ok go away. It doesn't. It just masks it and removes justification for their discomfort and objections. These remain hidden or under-acknowledged in their marriage which pushes out female sexual voice in their relationship. Other non-religious were exposed to age inappropriate material and behaviors that would be considered abuse but went unnoticed because it was "just porn." Others have similar problems as I already mentioned...they just lose the vocabulary to define it. I won't post a few of the following references because a number of the things I watch could be a trigger to others. But there are more than a few secular voices that are calling out about the problem. I watched a bbc video on porn addiction that had a severe case with an interviewee who seemed fairly non-religious or at least did not have hold ups wih porn based on the dialogue, considering he wa aware he watched it more than any of his friends. In the interview they were driving, the man gets triggered by a woman on the street who he found attractive and he litterall pulled over to the nearest bathroom to masturbate...with a camera crew and interviewer in the car. He comes back a couple minutes later with a level of self-hatred and shame/frustration. Another I watched was about erectile dysfunction of this young guy who saw no problem with heavy porn consumption. Until he had a girlfriend and could not maintain an erection. It took him Several months to relearn relational sex. There are several Tedtalks about this issue. You can find these on YouTube if you just type in Tedtalks porn. but here's a popular one:

...if you dig you'll find it. But it's a myth IMHO that removing religions removes the problems that porn can have.

 

With luv, 

BD

[salgare]

14 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

The day a vile porn magazine endorses or approves of the Church of Jesus Christ is the day I get worried about our public image. 

Perhaps this type of publicity has some play in why missionaries are coming home early and not returning to church? Wear your badge at all costs dude.

[ALarson]

16 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Yeah, a good friend of mine told me he has heard the same thing from contacts within the COB and also from an apostle's family. I don't put a lot of stock into it. 

Me either.  Maybe some wish it hadn't ever been written or implemented (or at least made public, for sure), but I cannot see them backing away from it this soon or completely removing it.

I guess time will tell if the rumors are true.  Dehlin has been right about things leaked in the past, but this seems pretty extreme.

.

Edited August 4, 2016 by ALarson

[Scott Lloyd]

11 minutes ago, salgare said:

Perhaps this type of publicity has some play in why missionaries are coming home early and not returning to church? Wear your badge at all costs dude.

In your dreams, "dude". 

[jkwilliams]

23 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Me either.  Maybe some wish it hadn't ever been written or implemented (or at least made public, for sure), but I cannot see them backing away from it this soon or completely removing it.

I guess time will tell if the rumors are true.  Dehlin has been right about things leaked in the past, but this seems pretty extreme.

Who knows? Of course, I'm still kind of shocked that the entire First Presidency and Quorum of Twelve signed off on the policy change in the first place. Would love to have been a fly on the wall for that. 

Edited August 4, 2016 by jkwilliams

[salgare]

23 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

In your dreams, "dude". 

Say I'm an average Joe, I don't subscribe to penthouse nor hustler, in fact I'm basically against porn. Yet via everyday news channels I'm shown, what appears to me, how a church is trying to enforce their values upon others.  Wait, isn't this the same Church that I read last year is persecuting the children of gays?  As I read the article and chuckle of the sisters wives reference.  Oh yea, that cult the Mormons.

Ding dong, two 18 year old young men stand at the door.

Yes Scott its all in my dreams.

[thesometimesaint]

 

So full of Ad Hominems and Non Sequiturs it takes my breath away.

[TheSkepticChristian]

3 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

The day a vile porn magazine endorses or approves of the Church of Jesus Christ is the day I get worried about our public image. 

what about a porn calendar for charity? Why should porn be illegal and a health crisis? Please keep religion out of politics. 

11 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

And not all (or most) porn viewers are addicts.

Yes, most porn viewers are not addicts. The real problem is addiction. Addiction to the Internet, MDDB, apologetics is a problem too. Addiction is always a problem, but porn addiction is very rare. 

3 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

On your first I think that's a difficult point to prove.

Thank you for telling us there is no evidence that porn creates sexual predators. 

3 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

But I've seen a few cases where that could definitely be argued, particularly with children exposed to porn.

I agree children shouldn't be expose to porn because their minds are not prepared. However, what about sex education show in europe? At high school meetings doctors show naked men and women to teens, but in a educational and respectful way. They are trying to normalize the human body and hope that teen pregnancy rates go down. 

3 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

 A couple more have problems in their adulthood with inappropriate sexual behavior including predation. But theirs would be a question of what came first. 

Exactly. However, the stats I presented challenge the assumption that porn creates sexual predators, that won't happen especially if you had good sex education as a teen. 

3 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

Another I watched was about erectile dysfunction of this young guy who saw no problem with heavy porn consumption. Until he had a girlfriend and could not maintain an erection. It took him Several months to relearn relational sex.

That is one of the negatives about porn (if you watch it irresponsibly), but it does not mean that porn is evil or creates sexual predators. 

A lot of things can cause erectile dysfunction during sex, including too much work stress (I know a Bishop that works and goes to college), not sleeping enough, obesity by eating too much junk food, but does that mean that too much work, food, or not enough sleep should be illegal and a health crisis?  

Some men watch porn as a treatment for erectile dysfunction during sex, in many cases porn does help. 

11 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

It's like alcohol in the sense that you can use it responsibly.

and everything, you need to be responsible about everything because everything can be a problem. 

3 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

But a couple of them had left the church

what about atheists? 

Your rare cases probably involve addiction, like I said, addiction is always a problem. 

However, most porn viewers are not addicted. In fact I say that about 99% of men watched porn. 

 

Edited August 4, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian

[TheSkepticChristian]

3 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

. You can find these on YouTube 

I personally don't know any Atheist that is addicted to porn. In fact, I heard that porn can get pretty boring. 

Here is a video of Dr. Darrel Ray (psychologist)  

 

Edited August 4, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian

[california boy]

55 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

I agree children shouldn't be expose to porn because their minds are not prepared. However, what about sex education show in europe? At high school meetings doctors show naked men and women to teens, but in a educational and respectful way. They are trying to normalize the human body and hope that teen pregnancy rates go down.

I spend quite a bit of time in Europe and I have to say the difference between Americans and Europeans in regards to nudity is like night and day.  It is not uncommon to see an advertising poster for perfume or woman's make up with a woman who is topless hanging in a store window on the street.  It is tasteful.  It is not vulgar.  And no one cares one bit.  At the beaches, women are often topless, No one cares.  

I was in Munich a while back.  There is a river that goes right through the center of the town.  And along the river bank, clothing is optional.  So you can stand on the bridge and see a bunch of naked people.  I was standing there talking with a friend and I noticed a group of school children  I am talking about 5 or 6 years olds.  There were two adults with them, one at each end of the line.  They were walking to the big park that is nearby, wandering through the naked people next to the river.  I thought, wow.  That would never happen in the US.  Those teachers would be strung up by their heels if they did something like that.  But the kids seem to no even be interested in the naked people they were wandering through.  No looks of shock and trama.  

The results of all of this is that Europeans do not have the issues with nudity.  They see it is just part of life, and not something that needs to be looked at under the covers of the bed late at night or be ashamed of.  I personally think it is a much healthier attitude.  But I am also sure I am much more liberal about this stuff than a lot of members would be who think it is immodest to even show a shoulder.  

The question is, does this type of attitude contribute to some of the reports of Utah watching more porn than any other state in the country?  Maybe what is not healthy is how Americans look at nudity when the only exposure to the human body IS porn.  And that can give a very distorted view of what sex is and what the average person actually looks like naked.  

Just as an aside, I always thought that it was interesting that God had no problem with Adam and Eve being naked.  And it was Satan that introduced the idea that we should be ashamed of the body.  Satan is the one that introduced clothing to man, not God.  Something to think about next time you visit the temple.

Hope this post didn't freak anyone out about ever visiting Europe.

[ksfisher]

14 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

That is just your assumption, you didn't present any evidence, where is it? Your assumption also contradicts the data, how come solid republican Alabama is doing better than solid democratic Illinois? Alabama doesn't report?  

How about suicide? Don't tell me conservatives are more likely to report suicide. 

Notice how solid democratic states tend to have lower suicide rates? 

Map from FairMormon, is that okay? 

There are many causal factors that influence the suicide rate.  Altitude seems to be a major contributor.  The states outlined in red above are higher altitude states. 

[ksfisher]

1 hour ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

 

 In fact I say that about 99% of men watched porn. 

 

Where did you get this number?  99% of men on this planet do not have access to either the internet or other media for pornography.

Why are you so pro-porn?  Your posts on any thread dealing with pornography come off as being very against the church teaching us to avoid pornography.

[TheSkepticChristian]

11 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

There are many causal factors that influence the suicide rate.  Altitude seems to be a major contributor.  The states outlined in red above are higher altitude states. 

Please read what i said "Notice how solid democratic states tend to have lower suicide rates?"

or I should say, the lowest suicide rates. 

Look at the solid blue states

Edited August 4, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian

[ERayR]

20 hours ago, salgare said:

Do you suppose this is good publicity for the Church? BoM on the cover of porn mags etc.  Perhaps the Church should have learned their lesson long ago over the oral sex deal.  i.e. that they should stay out of personal aspects of peoples lives. Perhaps the Church should have leaved their lesson long ago over prop 8, i.e. that they should stay out of politics.

Seems they would be much better off letting the missionaries and controlled channels tell their story verse Larry Flinn and the likes.  But they just never seem to learn.

 

"In a parting shot, the magazine has a 12-page photo spread titled "Sister Wives," where two models first appear in outfits intended to make them look like polygamists before they disrobe. "

 

oh my

Perhaps the Church should just continue to do as it has been doing and speak out on moral issues wherever and whenever they are troubling to its members.  Also, if you disagree you can just continue to speak out.