Johnnie Cake Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 Believers often throw this over used cliché out at those who leave the church as an optimal attack and yet seem to forget that this tired trope can be applied both ways. Trust me when I say, I would love nothing more than to put Mormonism in my rear view mirror and never look back...but its tentacles run deep into the very fabric of virtually all aspects of my life. Family, Neighborhood, Community, Employment, Societal, Government etc. How exactly is someone who lives in Utah supposed to be able to leave the church and leave it alone, when the church continues to dominate virtually all aspects of ones life in so many ways? I kindly ask this audacious body of Mormon Knowledge...how exactly is one supposed to be able to leave the church and be able to leave it alone in light of the reality that the church itself refuses to or can't/won't leave those who leave alone? 1
jkwilliams Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 Just now, Johnnie Cake said: Believers often throw this over used cliché out at those who leave the church as an optimal attack and yet seem to forget that this tired trope can be applied both ways. Trust me when I say, I would love nothing more than to put Mormonism in my rear view mirror and never look back...but its tentacles run deep into the very fabric of virtually all aspects of my life. Family, Neighborhood, Community, Employment, Societal, Government etc. How exactly is someone who lives in Utah supposed to be able to leave the church and leave it alone, when the church continues to dominate virtually all aspects of ones life in so many ways? I kindly ask this audacious body of Mormon Knowledge...how exactly is one supposed to be able to leave the church and be able to leave it alone in light of the reality that the church itself refuses to or can't/won't leave those who leave alone? You could do what I did and leave Utah. Of course. the church is still part of every day of my life, owing to my believing wife and children, so it's unlikely I'll ever be able to "put Mormonism in my rear-view mirror." My guess is that, as with me, Mormonism has lost a lot of its power to cause real pain and disruption in your life, so perhaps that is what we need to be happy with.
Johnnie Cake Posted June 9, 2016 Author Posted June 9, 2016 13 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: Mormonism has lost a lot of its power to cause real pain and disruption in your life, so perhaps that is what we need to be happy with. Yes this is true...
ksfisher Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: the church continues to dominate virtually all aspects of ones life in so many ways Perhaps you could elaborate on this statement a little. My family is active, but I don't see how the church dominates our lives. I doesn't choose what I have for breakfast (except for the no coffee, but there are also people who don't belong to the church who don't drink coffee), it doesn't tell me where to work or what car to drive. It doesn't tell me where to shop for groceries or what brand of deodorant to buy. I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at (not trying to invalidate your point, but to say I don't understand). I feel that the church helps to guide and direct my families life, and I would even go so far as to say that it helps protect us from harmful influences, but I wouldn't say dominate. Edited June 9, 2016 by ksfisher 1
TheSkepticChristian Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 1 minute ago, Johnnie Cake said: How exactly is someone who lives in Utah supposed to be able to leave the church and leave it alone, when the church continues to dominate virtually all aspects of ones life in so many ways? and perhaps they lost an important scholarship for going to a mission. Perhaps they lost important opportunities in their life for putting the church first. It is hard to forget about the church under such circumstances.
Popular Post JLHPROF Posted June 9, 2016 Popular Post Posted June 9, 2016 20 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: Believers often throw this over used cliché out at those who leave the church as an optimal attack and yet seem to forget that this tired trope can be applied both ways. Trust me when I say, I would love nothing more than to put Mormonism in my rear view mirror and never look back...but its tentacles run deep into the very fabric of virtually all aspects of my life. Family, Neighborhood, Community, Employment, Societal, Government etc. How exactly is someone who lives in Utah supposed to be able to leave the church and leave it alone, when the church continues to dominate virtually all aspects of ones life in so many ways? I kindly ask this audacious body of Mormon Knowledge...how exactly is one supposed to be able to leave the church and be able to leave it alone in light of the reality that the church itself refuses to or can't/won't leave those who leave alone? What utter rubbish. If people can live in Rome and not be Catholic and not spend all their time arguing, debating, and attempting to discredit the Catholic Church then surely you can figure out how to do the same in Utah. I know plenty of people in Utah who aren't members of the Church and have nothing to do with it at all. And yet somehow they manage not to pop up on Mormon message boards posting nonsense about wooden swords in an attempt to discredit. You know how you leave it alone? Stop obsessing over whether it's true or not and stop trying to disprove it to those who believe. If you still have family connections, well, that's a slightly different topic, but every time you post on this board a problem you think you see with Mormonism you are proving this cliché true. 9
Popular Post The Nehor Posted June 9, 2016 Popular Post Posted June 9, 2016 Well, you can always campaign to put us all in death camps so you never have to deal with it again. Either that or become a hermit to make sure you never interact with a Mormon again. Or move to a nation with no LDS presence and hope you die before we get there. I think you are in the "cannot leave it alone" camp if being around members is that irritating to you that it grates to the degree you describe. 6
Johnnie Cake Posted June 9, 2016 Author Posted June 9, 2016 44 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: What utter rubbish. If people can live in Rome and not be Catholic and not spend all their time arguing, debating, and attempting to discredit the Catholic Church then surely you can figure out how to do the same in Utah. I know plenty of people in Utah who aren't members of the Church and have nothing to do with it at all. And yet somehow they manage not to pop up on Mormon message boards posting nonsense about wooden swords in an attempt to discredit. You know how you leave it alone? Stop obsessing over whether it's true or not and stop trying to disprove it to those who believe. If you still have family connections, well, that's a slightly different topic, but every time you post on this board a problem you think you see with Mormonism you are proving this cliché true. I'm no longer a member of the church and have set what I would consider amenable boundaries that both the church and I can live within and yet even this past week was asked yet again when I'm going to get rebaptised. So yeah, in my real life, I get no respect of my boundaries. In my real life I leave them alone and yet I am repeatedly having to restate those bountaries...so yeah maybe I'm a bit sensitive today. I'm more than willing to allow the church to do its thing...but I can't seem to escape the seemingly lack of mutual respect back. I'm sorry that you find my posts nonsense...please feel free to "Leave Them Alone" In the future... 1
Johnnie Cake Posted June 9, 2016 Author Posted June 9, 2016 57 minutes ago, ksfisher said: Perhaps you could elaborate on this statement a little. My family is active, but I don't see how the church dominates our lives. I doesn't choose what I have for breakfast (except for the no coffee, but there are also people who don't belong to the church who don't drink coffee), it doesn't tell me where to work or what car to drive. It doesn't tell me where to shop for groceries or what brand of deodorant to buy. I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at (not trying to invalidate your point, but to say I don't understand). I feel that the church helps to guide and direct my families life, and I would even go so far as to say that it helps protect us from harmful influences, but I wouldn't say dominate. A bit of hyperbole perhaps... I'm merely asking for some mutual respect...the same I extend in my real Off Board life
ERayR Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 2 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: I'm no longer a member of the church and have set what I would consider amenable boundaries that both the church and I can live within and yet even this past week was asked yet again when I'm going to get rebaptised. So yeah, in my real life, I get no respect of my boundaries. In my real life I leave them alone and yet I am repeatedly having to restate those bountaries...so yeah maybe I'm a bit sensitive today. I'm more than willing to allow the church to do its thing...but I can't seem to escape the seemingly lack of mutual respect back. I'm sorry that you find my posts nonsense...please feel free to "Leave Them Alone" In the future... If you really can leave it alone then what are you wasting time here? 2
jkwilliams Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 1 minute ago, Johnnie Cake said: I'm no longer a member of the church and have set what I would consider amenable boundaries that both the church and I can live within and yet even this past week was asked yet again when I'm going to get rebaptised. So yeah, in my real life, I get no respect of my boundaries. In my real life I leave them alone and yet I am repeatedly having to restate those bountaries...so yeah maybe I'm a bit sensitive today. I'm more than willing to allow the church to do its thing...but I can't seem to escape the seemingly lack of mutual respect back. I'm sorry that you find my posts nonsense...please feel free to "Leave Them Alone" In the future... Admit it, you're a hater. Lack of boundaries is definitely a problem around some people, but we are expected to bite our tongues and say nothing. I know exactly where you're coming from, but it doesn't mean either of us is obsessing over whether the church is true or not. That ship sailed a long time ago. 1
ERayR Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 1 minute ago, jkwilliams said: Admit it, you're a hater. Lack of boundaries is definitely a problem around some people, but we are expected to bite our tongues and say nothing. I know exactly where you're coming from, but it doesn't mean either of us is obsessing over whether the church is true or not. That ship sailed a long time ago. See above.
CV75 Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 1 hour ago, Johnnie Cake said: Believers often throw this over used cliché out at those who leave the church as an optimal attack and yet seem to forget that this tired trope can be applied both ways. Trust me when I say, I would love nothing more than to put Mormonism in my rear view mirror and never look back...but its tentacles run deep into the very fabric of virtually all aspects of my life. Family, Neighborhood, Community, Employment, Societal, Government etc. How exactly is someone who lives in Utah supposed to be able to leave the church and leave it alone, when the church continues to dominate virtually all aspects of ones life in so many ways? I kindly ask this audacious body of Mormon Knowledge...how exactly is one supposed to be able to leave the church and be able to leave it alone in light of the reality that the church itself refuses to or can't/won't leave those who leave alone? Once while feeling particularly impatient (stuck! stuck! stuck!) in traffic, I wondered if my reaction was really worth it. It dawned on me that while I was focusing on the bumper right in front of me, the Lord was all around, everywhere else, free to move and act and create. It was very feasible for me to recognize that, and in recognizing His hand in all things, actually participate with Him in His freedom, moving, acting, creating, etc., even if in a preparatory way (while waiting to get out of traffic), while being able to better handle and navigate the traffic once it started moving again. So if you feel trapped, it's often just a product of your focus. There is plenty of space remaining around " Family, Neighborhood, Community, Employment, Societal, Government etc." Zen moment of the day! 1
ksfisher Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 5 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: I'm no longer a member of the church and have set what I would consider amenable boundaries that both the church and I can live within and yet even this past week was asked yet again when I'm going to get rebaptised. It sounds like there are people who, in there own way, care about you. 1
jkwilliams Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 1 minute ago, ERayR said: See above. I thought that was obvious: to lead people down the path to eternal damnation.
Johnnie Cake Posted June 9, 2016 Author Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: Admit it, you're a hater. Lack of boundaries is definitely a problem around some people, but we are expected to bite our tongues and say nothing. I know exactly where you're coming from, but it doesn't mean either of us is obsessing over whether the church is true or not. That ship sailed a long time ago. Yes I find myself having to bite my tongue often...walk away...or change the subject...but I do get tired having to do this... its never ending...enough already! Edited June 9, 2016 by Johnnie Cake
ERayR Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 1 minute ago, jkwilliams said: I thought that was obvious: to lead people down the path to eternal damnation. A noble goal, for sure.
jkwilliams Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 1 minute ago, Johnnie Cake said: Yes I find myself having to bite my tongue often...walk away...or change the subject...but I do get tired having to do this... enough already! It's never going to happen. I've learned to live with it. Better to take my frustrations out by chipping away at the testimonies of people on this board.
Johnnie Cake Posted June 9, 2016 Author Posted June 9, 2016 6 minutes ago, ERayR said: If you really can leave it alone then what are you wasting time here? I love this board. I love both the critics and the believers. I love the makeup of the posters. I love being held accountable and challenged. I certainly don't see it as a waist of time...although I could make more $$$ were I to do so...
ERayR Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 1 minute ago, Johnnie Cake said: I love this board. I love both the critics and the believers. I love the makeup of the posters. I love being held accountable and challenged. I certainly don't see it as a waist of time...although I could make more $$$ were I to do so... Fair enough. I don't understand your reasoning. You have something that you want rooted out of your life but you just love to immerse yourself in a discussion board dedicated to discussing that which you want to rid yourself of. I just don't see the logic. 2
Gray Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 Mormons and exmormons can't leave each other alone because they are so very much alike. 2
Tacenda Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 9 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: Yes I find myself having to bite my tongue often...walk away...or change the subject...but I do get tired having to do this... its never ending...enough already! You could always ask them why they think you left and if they want to know. That'll keep them from asking when you want to get rebaptised. But that is assuming that the reasons you left were over things in church history. Still, people may need to understand more of your story.
Storm Rider Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 12 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: A bit of hyperbole perhaps... I'm merely asking for some mutual respect...the same I extend in my real Off Board life Johnnie, you are in between a rock and a hard place. Unless your boundaries are known by everyone else they are meaningless and will only cause you frustration by asserting you have boundaries. Learning to not take things personally will go a long way for you in avoiding problems - if someone says something you perceive as offensive ignore it as they don't understand or however else will make it easy to ignore. Mutual respect, I think is the wrong objective to expect in this context. When others are talking to you in serious manner on this topic, I suspect it is because they honestly care about you as an individual. Thank them for caring, but let them know that you have made decisions that works for you and there is no need to worry. Tell them that if they really care they can do two things - stop asking such questions and bring cookies or baked bread whichever you like best. I believe it is possible to leave things in the review mirror completely. You must disengage completely - as in there is no interest in the topic; no forums, no discussion groups, no participation in conversations, etc. Having been in or lived in Rome and Qatar I know it is possible to live with a dominate religion and remain wholly separate. 1
jkwilliams Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, Gray said: Mormons and exmormons can't leave each other alone because they are so very much alike. Indeed. I see myself as I used to be and as I am in a lot of the believing posters here.
Thinking Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 When I go visit my Mom and part of the visit falls on a Sunday, she'll ask me to come to church with her. I oblige and attend sacrament meeting. If she visits me and part of the visit falls on a Sunday, she'll ask me to come to church with her. I oblige and attend sacrament meeting. My wife's parents do the same thing with her inactive brother.
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