They Can Leave the Church But They Can't Leave It Alone

[jkwilliams]

3 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I feel very sorry for people who do not have other interests in life than the LDS faith, or who feel that they must constantly hector some perceived miscreant for zealously adhering to or abandoning the faith.  That is just bad manners at best, and insensitive at worst.

My family does not hector me constantly. About once a year I get the hard sell, and I tell them I prefer not to talk about it. Apparently, if I had bigger huevos I would forbid my family from mentioning the church in my presence. 

My mother is 79 years old, and her life centers on the church. I don't begrudge her that at all. I enjoy hearing her talk about her choir and people I know from my home ward. It would be stupid and arrogant to insist she not bring it up. 

[Jeanne]

1 hour ago, jkwilliams said:

I've done it with some people, but it would be stupid and arrogant to do that with my family. I couldn't care less that you think I'm not strong enough. Demanding things of your family is a sign of weakness, not strength. 

I agree.  In fact it takes great character and strength to NOT be offensive.  At a family reunion..it is called" Enduring till the End"

[UtahTexan]

13 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

I agree.  In fact it takes great character and strength to NOT be offensive.  At a family reunion..it is called" Enduring till the End"

It is never offensive to ask people not to discuss topics that offend or bother you.  A family that loves you will understand.  I cannot understand this kind of weakness.  When I was overweight, I asked famly who sometimes kidded me not to kid about that...it offended me....they complied.  If you love and respect each other....if not...then i suggest complaining in a discussion board.

[jkwilliams]

1 minute ago, CountryBoy said:

It is never offensive to ask people not to discuss topics that offend or bother you.  A family that loves you will understand.  I cannot understand this kind of weakness.  When I was overweight, I asked famly who sometimes kidded me not to kid about that...it offended me....they complied.  If you love and respect each other....if not...then i suggest complaining in a discussion board.

You honestly think "don't make fun of my weight" is comparable to "don't talk about your religion in front of me"? Yikes. 

[UtahTexan]

3 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

You honestly think "don't make fun of my weight" is comparable to "don't talk about your religion in front of me"? Yikes. 

nope...it was an example.  I told you...I did the religion thing too.  

 

Oh..and when i married a hispanic and they all hated that...I did the same thing in THAT circumstance.....please read what I write...YIKES

[jkwilliams]

3 minutes ago, CountryBoy said:

nope...it was an example.  I told you...I did the religion thing too.  

 

Oh..and when i married a hispanic and they all hated that...I did the same thing in THAT circumstance.....please read what I write...YIKES

Your family sounds awful. 

[UtahTexan]

shrugs..so does yours......difference is, I handled mine.  Did not discuss them till now on a board....but only then to make a point.

 

[jkwilliams]

6 minutes ago, CountryBoy said:

shrugs..so does yours......difference is, I handled mine.  Did not discuss them till now on a board....but only then to make a point.

 

I've handled mine, too. Oddly enough, we don't seem that different. My family knows not to try to reconvert me, as apparently does yours. Somehow I'm not very strong, though. Shrug. 

[jkwilliams]

By the way, how did saying that it's a bad idea to argue about religion with family members morph into complaining about Mormon family members? That's certainly putting a creative spin on what I said. 

Edited June 11, 2016 by jkwilliams

[california boy]

On June 9, 2016 at 9:55 PM, bdouglas said:

For one thing, there are (if I'm not mistaken) 600 verses in the BOM that refer to geography and setting. How would someone who is inventing a story, writing fiction . . . how would someone incorporate into this story a setting, and include 600 references to this setting, a setting that is entirely made up, and have these 600 references be entirely consistent from beginning to end?

When I was in college I wrote a novel (it is the only novel I have ever written, after it I focused on what I was really good it, film and television), and for a college student, it was a damn good novel. Part of writing this novel was the question of setting. I had to place it somewhere. I tried to make something up, but I really couldn't do it. So in the end I used a setting I was familiar with and changed the names of places.

I think this is an interesting theory.  Wondered what you thought of the Quran.  Is that all made up or is it the word of God.  If it is the word of God, then shouldn't it be part of our standard works?  How about the writings of Budah?  There are other books that claim to be the word of God to prophets.  They too are filled with historical places, people, religious doctrine every bit as much as The Book of Mormon is.  Don't you owe it to yourself to see if they too are as amazing as the Book of Mormon?  The claim is very similar.  They too claim they are from God through a prophet.  They also represent thousands of details that no one could have possibly have made up.

I don't mean to question your faith in the Book of Mormon.  I only mean to question the basis of claiming the book is what Joseph Smith claimed it was.  

 

Edited June 11, 2016 by california boy

[sjdawg]

On 6/9/2016 at 7:50 PM, Johnnie Cake said:

Yes I find myself having to bite my tongue often...walk away...or change the subject...but I do get tired having to do this... its never ending...enough already!

One thing I have noticed in my group of facebook friends and acquaintances is that my LDS friends feel perfectly justified (and probably rightly so) in posting any LDS quote, article, activity, message, etc on Facebook but quickly get very upset and defensive if someone posts something that either disagrees with the LDS article or is against LDS teachings.  I've got a personal policy to never discuss or comment on anything religious or political on facebook.  Those threads never end well.

Edited June 12, 2016 by sjdawg

[sjdawg]

On 6/9/2016 at 11:48 PM, jkwilliams said:

I've never understood that argument, either. It's like saying that, unless we know exactly how it was done, we must accept that GOB Bluth really did make that boat disappear.

I had to give you a rep point just for the arrested development reference.

[busybee]

On 09/06/2016 at 5:45 PM, Johnnie Cake said:

 I'm merely asking for some mutual respect...the same I extend in my real Off Board life

Perhaps you should be addressing this issue with the people who you feel  are being disrespectful.

But I guess it'e easier to sound off against all Mormons.

[Tacenda]

On 6/10/2016 at 8:15 PM, CountryBoy said:

nope...it was an example.  I told you...I did the religion thing too.  

 

Oh..and when i married a hispanic and they all hated that...I did the same thing in THAT circumstance.....please read what I write...YIKES

Wow, I feel for you, I can't imagine a family member treating me that way.  My daughter married a Hispanic too.  Luckily my family and my in laws have been very accepting.  

But apparently not all families are like that, what is wrong with people!?!  They are in their own little universe I guess.  And getting after you about your weight?  Maybe they think they're doing it out of love or something.

[UtahTexan]

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Wow, I feel for you, I can't imagine a family member treating me that way.  My daughter married a Hispanic too.  Luckily my family and my in laws have been very accepting.  

But apparently not all families are like that, what is wrong with people!?!  They are in their own little universe I guess.  And getting after you about your weight?  Maybe they think they're doing it out of love or something.

They grew up in Texas...a lot of prejudice.....the weight thing was mostly jokes...but it still bothered me....at least now, weight is not an issue

 

[Jim Stiles]

On 6/9/2016 at 4:36 PM, bdouglas said:

A challenge to the most educated, smartest ex-Mormon or NeverMo on this site . . . .

You have, not 90 days, but a whole year. Write something comparable, not to entire BOM, but to just one chapter,  1 Nephi 1. Or even the first four verses of the first chapter of 1 Nephi. Or take the smallest least significant of any of the revelations in the D & C, and write one like it. You must not only get the language right but you have to get the "voice" right. (That voice! Who is it? Read what Bushman says about this voice is RSR.) Or write me a B of A, or even a few verses of the B of A.

Ok, you say you can't do it. You are not smart enough. Is there anyone alive today who is smart enough? Or is there anyone in the past, at the time of JS, who was not only smart enough, he would also have had to be the greatest literary genius of all time.

P.S. - It is probably evident to anybody reading my posts that I am at loose ends for a few days with not much to do. Sorry.

BOOK OF BOB
Chapter 1

1. In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.  
2. All the praises and thanks be to God, the Lord of all that exists.  
3. The Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.  
4. The Only Owner (and the Only Ruling Judge) of the Day of Recompense (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)  
5. You Alone we worship, and You Alone we ask for help for each and everything.  
6. Guide us to the Straight Way 
7. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not the way of those who earned Your Anger, nor of those who went astray.

Chapter 2

1. These letters are one of the miracles of the book and none but God alone knows their meanings.
2. This is the Book, whereof there is no doubt, a guidance to those who are pious and righteous persons who fear God much and love God much.
3. Who believe in the teachings and perform as instructed, and spend out of what we have provided for them.
4. And who believe in the book and the teachings which has been revealed to you which were sent down before you and they believe with certainty in the Hereafter.
5. They are on guidance from their Lord, and they are the successful.
6. Verily, those who disbelieve, it is the same to them whether you warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe.
7. God has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearings, and on their eyes there is a covering. Their torment will be a great.
8. And of mankind, there are some who say: "We believe in God and the Last Day" while in fact they believe not.
9. They think to deceive God and those who believe, while they only deceive themselves, and perceive it not!
10. In their hearts is a disease of doubt and hypocrisy and God has increased their disease. Their torment is painful because they used to tell lies.
 

[Jim Stiles]

On 6/9/2016 at 6:08 PM, Mystery Meat said:

Indeed, he only had to spend his entire life doing it.

The Hobbit did not take his entire life, but The Lord of the Rings did take up 27 years.

EDIT: Wikipedia says that he wrote TLOTR in 12 years.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Jim Stiles

[Maedros]

On 6/9/2016 at 5:27 PM, Johnnie Cake said:

Believers often throw this over used cliché out at those who leave the church as an optimal attack and yet seem to forget that this tired trope can be applied both ways.  Trust me when I say, I would love nothing more than to put Mormonism in my rear view mirror and never look back...but its tentacles run deep into the very fabric of virtually all aspects of my life.  Family, Neighborhood, Community, Employment, Societal, Government etc.

How exactly is someone who lives in Utah supposed to be able to leave the church and leave it alone, when the church continues to dominate virtually all aspects of ones life in so many ways?  I kindly ask this audacious body of Mormon Knowledge...how exactly is one supposed to be able to leave the church and be able to leave it alone in light of the reality that the church itself refuses to or can't/won't leave those who leave alone? 

Read and practice the Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle.