Intelligences Organized

[Ahab]

3 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

But we wont have the earthly carnal desires as an exalted being so being distracted wouldn't happen. You wouldn't see it as a big deal that your wife or any attractive girl was naked.

I will still know what is good when I see it.

And there is nothing bad about a man wanting to have, and having, sexual relations with his wife.

[Eek!]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 2:53 PM, Ahab said:

My point was that everything here is analogous (similar) to everything there in heaven.  That rather than thinking that everything in one place is totally different than everything in the other place that everything in both places is very similar and analagous to each other.

In my opinion you have hit upon a correct principle, which we might call the principle if Correspondences.   However I don't think the one is necessarily an exact analog of the other because we're talking about a higher world and a lower world, and the higher world will be more advanced and not subject to some of the limitations (for instance death of cells) of the lower world. 

Imo there is another area of correspondence.  This is not my original idea, but rather comes from the writings of JJ Dewey on a subject he calls The Molecular Relationship:  Greater lives are composed of multiple lesser lives which are "organized" (that word from the thread title) in a particular way.  If you look at the human body, each cell is alive!  Each cell is a tiny life that forms part of a whole which is much greater than the sum of its parts.  You might want to check out this video, made for biology students, showing what goes on inside one type of cell, a white blood cell: 

 

This pattern of multiple lesser units combining to form a greater whole that transcends the properties and abilities of its constituent parts shows up throughout the physical universe.  At the risk of oversimplifying, strings (energy vibrations) combine and organize to form quarks.  Quarks organize to form subatomic particles.  Subatomic particles organize to form atoms.  Atoms organize to form molecules.   Molecules (in particular long-chain amino acids, see the video above) organize to form cells.  Cells organize to form multi-cell life forms, such as us.  And, imo, one day we may well organize to form units of the next level up, which I'll come back to in a minute.

Let's take a quick look at two atoms, sodium and chlorine.  Sodium is an extremely volatile ultralight metal than can become so hot when exposed to water that it melts.  Chlorine is a deadly poisonous gas, used to ghastly effect in the First World War.  When these two elements are combined, they form salt, which is necessary for life!  That cell you see in the video above would die without salt.  So the properties of the greater whole (salt) greatly transcend the properties of its constituent parts.  Yet the individual atoms retain their identity, and if we separated them, they would go back to being one sodium atom and one chlorine atom.

So if a number of humans were to combine and organize in a way that formed a unit of the next level up, like atoms forming a molecule, what might that look like?  Well, I think we have at least one concrete example of such:  The original Twelve Apostles of Jesus.  Personally I believe they were twelve couples, rather than twelve men, each couple being in effect an atom, and the Twelve human atoms were organized by Jesus into a whole that was far, far greater than the sum of its parts.  How do we know this?  When Jesus first organized them into what we might call a "Human Molecular Unit" and sent them out, it was like they had superpowers.  They could heal the sick and cast out devils (mental illness?) just like Jesus did!  But when the Molecule was broken by Judas, they became once again just ordinary men, who scattered in fear.  Later when the Molecule was restored by Matthias taking Judas's place, their superpowers were restored.  They could be understood by those who didn't speak their language, heal, cast out devils, teleport, and the sick could be healed by their shadow merely passing over them.  It was almost like they were junior-level gods. 

I think there may have been one other recorded instance of a Human Molecular Unit being successfully organized, and that was in Kirkland in 1836, but that would be another post for another day.

Note that "Elohim" is a plural word, implying that an Elohim is made up of more than one.  I think the Human Molecular Unit that Jesus organized was the next level up.  Remember how he told his followers to become one?  Maybe that was more than an exhortation to get along. 

The above is based on the concept of the Molecular Relationship as taught by JJ Dewey (freeread dot com), filtered through my understanding and interpretation of such. 

The revealed teaching that intelligences were "organized" into spirits may well be an indication that this pattern of lesser lives combining to form greater lives was in play in the creative processes in the higher worlds as well. 

There might be a hint of a Molecular-type union being "the next step" in the Endowment ceremony.  Several couples (interesting that "Adams" sounds like "Atoms") unite in prayer in a way that could be symbolic of becoming one (physical contact plus harmony in thoughts, words, and actions) just before they transition from this level to the next. 

But to recap, I think there is a lot more to the pattern of Correspondence which Ahab recognized than might be apparent at first glance. 

Edited June 11, 2016 by Eek!

[Ahab]

12 minutes ago, Eek! said:

...if a number humans were to combine and organize in a way that formed a unit of the next level up, what might that look like? 

I'd like to bring up another example, which I think is even greater than the one you mentioned.  

Considering everything that a resurrected person is and can be, including perhaps some smaller life forms within that person's body similar to those life forms in a mortal body, what is even greater than all that one resurrected person is and can be is another resurrected person joined to that person in such a way that those 2 individual persons become one family head.  A husband and wife, in other words, who together can become more than everything those 2 persons are and can be by themselves... more persons than only those 2.  An infinite number of persons,  even, with each one of them being more than any one could be all by his or her self.

We are such a one as this, already,  as the children of the 2 that created all of us.  And the fun doesn't have to stop here, right where we are, with no more opportunities for advancement.  Each of us can also become part of our own family head, with children of our own, even as we extend the family of our parents in heaven.

[Eek!]

Sorry accidentally "quoted" my big post above when I meant to "edit". 

Edited June 10, 2016 by Eek!

[Calm]

7 hours ago, CV75 said:

So, are you gong to keep Calm after all, and carry on?

That is the idea.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Ahab said:

There is nothing arrogant about using some common sense.  And there isn't anything dirty or wrong or ungodly about a husband having old-fashioned sexual relations with his wife, either, or vice versa.

The bottom line is that I am still going to be a man after I am resurrected,  and my wife will still be a beautiful, wonderful,  adorable woman too.  And all of our body parts will still work, too, even better than when we were both in our prime as mortals.  

So you do the math, if you can do it properly. 

What in the world or in heaven do you think could possibly prevent my wife and I... when we are in heaven and still married to each other... from having sexual relations and reproducing ourselves into more little ones like us who will grow up in our mansion in heaven just like we did when we were little?

The "you don't really know how it will work" comments may still be applicable to you but it wouldn't really take that much for you to know at least one of the ways it would actually work.  Just a little common sense and the realization that men will still be men and women will always be women, with those who are married to each other still doing what married men and women do.

I cannot figure out if you are intentionally or unintentionally misunderstanding everything I say or both.

[VideoGameJunkie]

 

1 hour ago, Ahab said:

I will still know what is good when I see it.

And there is nothing bad about a man wanting to have, and having, sexual relations with his wife.

We feel shame of nudity in this world, because Satan is loose and is the one that makes us feel shame just like he was the one that made Adam and Eve feel shame.

 

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Eek! said:

In my opinion you have hit upon a correct principle, which we might call the principle if Correspondences.   However I don't think the one is necessarily an exact analog of the other because we're talking about a higher world and a lower world, and the higher world will be more advanced and not subject to some of the limitations (for instance death of cells) of the lower world. 

Another area of correspondence might be this:  Greater lives are composed of multiple lesser lives which are "organized" (that word from the thread title) in a particular way.  If you look at the human body, each cell is alive!  Each cell is a tiny life that forms part of a whole which is much greater than the sum of its parts.  You might want to check out this video, made for biology students, showing what goes on inside one type of cell, a white blood cell: 

 

This pattern of multiple lesser units combining to form a greater whole that transcends the properties and abilities of its constituent parts shows up throughout the physical universe.  At the risk of oversimplifying, strings (energy vibrations) combine and organize to form quarks.  Quarks organize to form subatomic particles.  Subatomic particles organize to form atoms.  Atoms organize to form molecules.   Molecules (in particular long-chain amino acids, see the video above) organize to form cells.  Cells organize to form multi-cell life forms, such as us.  And, imo, one day we may well organize to form units of the next level up, which I'll come back to in a minute.

Let's take a quick look at two atoms, sodium and chlorine.  Sodium is an extremely volatile ultralight metal than can become so hot when exposed to water that it melts.  Chlorine is a deadly poisonous gas, used to ghastly effect in the First World War.  When these two elements are combined, they form salt, which is necessary for life!  That cell you see in the video above would die without salt.  So the properties of the greater whole (salt) greatly transcend the properties of its constituent parts.  Yet the individual atoms retain their identity, and if we separated them, they would go back to being one sodium atom and one chlorine atom.

So if a number of humans were to combine and organize in a way that formed a unit of the next level up, like atoms forming a molecule, what might that look like?  Well, I think we have at least one concrete example of such:  The original Twelve Apostles of Jesus.  Personally I believe they were twelve couples, rather than twelve men, each couple being in effect an atom, and the Twelve human atoms were organized by Jesus into a whole that was far, far greater than the sum of its parts.  How do we know this?  When Jesus first organized them into what we might call a "Human Molecular Unit" and sent them out, it was like they had superpowers.  They could heal the sick and cast out devils (mental illness?) just like Jesus did!  But when the Molecule was broken by Judas, they became once again just ordinary men, who scattered in fear.  Later when the Molecule was restored by Matthias taking Judas's place, their superpowers were restored.  They could be understood by those who didn't speak their language, heal, cast out devils, teleport, and the sick could be healed by their shadow merely passing over them.  It was almost like they were junior-level gods. 

I think there may have been one other recorded instance of a Human Molecular Unit being successfully organized, and that was in Kirkland in 1836, but that would be another post for another day.

Note that "Elohim" is a plural word, implying that an Elohim is made up of more than one.  I think the Human Molecular Unit that Jesus organized was the next level up.  Remember how he told his followers to become one?  Maybe that was more than an exhortation to get along. 

The above is based on the concept of the Molecular Relationship as taught by JJ Dewey (freeread dot com), filtered through my understanding and interpretation of such. 

The revealed teaching that intelligences were "organized" into spirits may well be an indication that this pattern of lesser lives combining to form greater lives was in play in the creative processes in the higher worlds as well. 

There might be a hint of a Molecular-type union being "the next step" in the Endowment ceremony.  Several couples (interesting that "Adams" sounds like "Atoms") unite in prayer in a way that could be symbolic of becoming one (physical contact plus harmony in thoughts, words, and actions) just before they transition from this level to the next. 

But to recap, I think there is a lot more to the pattern of Correspondence which Ahab recognized than might be apparent at first glance. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perichoresis

Most relevant to the temple reference:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/jesuscreed/2013/04/16/the-divine-dance-rjs/

Note especially the notion of the dance being lost and then restored

Edited June 10, 2016 by mfbukowski
Add reference, remove video from reply

[CV75]

55 minutes ago, Eek! said:

***

I think there may have been one other recorded instance of a Human Molecular Unit being successfully organized, and that was in Kirkland in 1836, but that would be another post for another day.

***

The revealed teaching that intelligences were "organized" into spirits may well be an indication that this pattern of lesser lives combining to form greater lives was in play in the creative processes in the higher worlds as well. 

***

Other recorded instances of organizing intelligence as a priesthood community: Zion that was taken up; the Nephites after the Lord's visit to them; and any United Order (NT, D&C, Book of Mormon). I also think the various organizational units of the Church offer an idea, as does the sealing of couples, families, generations, etc.

The role of "lesser lives" combining to form "greater lives" (the work and glory of God, the continuation od the seeds, etc.):  "God himself, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory…" (TPJS, p. 354). Perhaps He found Himself there because the lesser intelligences drew themselves to Him because they saw that “He has power to institute laws to instruct the weaker intelligences, that they may be exalted with himself, so that they might have one glory upon another, and all that knowledge, power, glory, and intelligence, which is requisite in order to save them.”

[Eek!]

23 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perichoresis

Most relevant to the temple reference:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/jesuscreed/2013/04/16/the-divine-dance-rjs/

Very interesting, thanks for the links.  I hadn't thought of how this concept could apply to the relationship between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. 

[Ahab]

57 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

 

We feel shame of nudity in this world, because Satan is loose and is the one that makes us feel shame just like he was the one that made Adam and Eve feel shame.

 

Satan tries to make us feel shame about lots of things, even when we are being good and doing good things, because he just wants us to feel bad all of the time.  He is the ultimate party pooper, even at really good parties. 

Notice the way he tried to make Adam and Eve feel shame, too.  With all of the drama. "Run!" he said.  "Hide!" he said.  And Adam and Eve both just fell for it hook, line,  and sinker!  Hiding in the bushes.  From our Father. While I'm sure Satan was just standing there chuckling at how naive and gullible they were.

There is nothing wrong with wearing clothing,  though.  We don't all have to run around naked just because we don't feel ashamed of being naked.  There is something called modesty, and it is a good thing.

We just need to learn the difference between what is good and what is evil.

[Jeanne]

Well, I, for one, am very grateful for the fig leaves on sale at the stores.

[HappyJackWagon]

3 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

But we wont have the earthly carnal desires as an exalted being so being distracted wouldn't happen. You wouldn't see it as a big deal that your wife or any attractive girl was naked.

Are all beings resurrected as eunuchs? That's not a very appealing eternity.

[Ahab]

13 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Well, I, for one, am very grateful for the fig leaves on sale at the stores.

Fig leaves, huh.  I'd be looking for zucchini plant leaves, or elephant ear-sized fern leaves.  It would take quite a few fig leaves to cover up what I would want to be hiding, IF I did feel ashamed at the display of my body. 

 

 

[Ahab]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I cannot figure out if you are intentionally or unintentionally misunderstanding everything I say or both.

Guess again.

[HappyJackWagon]

3 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Fig leaves, huh.  I'd be looking for zucchini plant leaves, or elephant ear-sized fern leaves.  It would take quite a few fig leaves to cover up what I would want to be hiding, IF I did feel ashamed at the display of my body. 

 

 

Dude, you are full of all kinds of uncomfortable comments on this thread. Is the claim to need elephant ear-sized fig leaves a new form of self aggrandizement?

[Jeanne]

6 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Fig leaves, huh.  I'd be looking for zucchini plant leaves, or elephant ear-sized fern leaves.  It would take quite a few fig leaves to cover up what I would want to be hiding, IF I did feel ashamed at the display of my body. 

 

 

You crack me up!!

[Ahab]

11 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Are all beings resurrected as eunuchs? That's not a very appealing eternity.

Tell him Happy Jack!

Tell him what you think about his idea that you wouldn't see it as a big deal to see your wife or another attractive woman while she was naked, even after you were resurrected. 

Some of the things some people believe. 

My goodness. 

[The Nehor]

3 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Fig leaves, huh.  I'd be looking for zucchini plant leaves, or elephant ear-sized fern leaves.  It would take quite a few fig leaves to cover up what I would want to be hiding, IF I did feel ashamed at the display of my body. 

 

 

Are you compensating for something here? Seriously, quit with the creepy.

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Guess again.

Your posts are created by a trained monkey or some kind of keyboard tapping bird? Only other explanation I can think of.

[Ahab]

3 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Dude, you are full of all kinds of uncomfortable comments on this thread. Is the claim to need elephant ear-sized fig leaves a new form of self aggrandizement?

Something more the size of a towel than a wash rag, I was thinking. 

What size leaf would you want to be holding? 

[Ahab]

2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Your posts are created by a trained monkey or some kind of keyboard tapping bird? Only other explanation I can think of.

Nope.  Still wrong.  One more guess?

[The Nehor]

50 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Nope.  Still wrong.  One more guess?

That is exactly the kind of deceptive response a trained monkey would try to use to throw me off the scent. Trained monkey theory proven.

[CV75]

3 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perichoresis

Most relevant to the temple reference:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/jesuscreed/2013/04/16/the-divine-dance-rjs/

Note especially the notion of the dance being lost and then restored

Now here’s where I’m going to get a little weird (it’s Friday!).

Organizing intelligence (spirit) goes hand in hand with organizing matter (element). In the Creation, all kinds of matter was organized into a world (paradise) consisting of the inanimate and the animate placed under the dominion of Adam and Eve (man is spirit).

In Exaltation, the sea of glass in the celestial kingdom is inanimate, and yet serves as a medium of knowledge serving those to whom have been given dominion over eternity (D&C 130:7). In the same way, in Adam’s world (both paradise and what we have now) element (the inanimate) might contain spiritual knowledge (e.g. brass plates and papyri) and the animate contain element (e.g. people – D&C 93:33), with whatever else we call living going either way.

Both forms of organization are spiritual processes and require spiritual power (faith and priesthood), harnessing spiritual laws such as opposition (ying / yang) and agency. Hence the eternal nature of gender and marriage and their relationship to each other.

[Ahab]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

That is exactly the kind of deceptive response a trained monkey would try to use to throw me off the scent. Trained monkey theory proven.