America a choice land? God of this land is Jesus Christ?

[Sky]

A widely held belief by Mormons, and supported by Book of Mormon scripture, is that America is a choice land above all other lands, and that the God of the land is Jesus Christ.  Mormons also hold the belief that the Constitution of the United States was an inspired document, which states, in part, that Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.    

See: Ether 2: 8-10, 12

Quote

And he had sworn in his wrath unto the brother of Jared, that whoso should possess this land of promise, from that time henceforth and forever, should serve him, the true and only God, or they should be swept off when the fulness of his wrath should come upon them.

 9 And now, we can behold the decrees of God concerning this land, that it is a land of promise; and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall serve God, or they shall beswept off when the fulness of his wrath shall come upon them. And the fulness of his wrath cometh upon them when they are ripened in iniquity.

 10 For behold, this is a land which is choice above all other lands; wherefore he that doth possess it shall serve God or shall be swept off; for it is the everlasting decree of God. And it is not until the fulness of iniquity among the children of the land, that they are swept off.

Behold, this is a choice land, and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ, who hath been manifested by the things which we have written.

With that said, if we truly believe that the God of this land is Jesus Christ, and those that don't serve him shall be swept off eventually, where does this leave non-Mormons, non-Christians, atheists and agnostics, Jews and Muslims, etc?  Or the majority of people living here that don't subscribe to Mormon scripture?  We cherish religious freedom in this country.  We value diversity and inclusion and freedom for all.  So how does this square with the sentiment of "we must serve the God of this land, or be swept off"?

Side note: I was heartened by former Utah senator Bob Bennett's deathbed apology to Muslims:

http://qz.com/688017/a-republican-senator-on-his-deathbed-apologized-to-muslims-for-donald-trump/

 

    

[cinepro]

1 hour ago, Sky said:

A widely held belief by Mormons, and supported by Book of Mormon scripture, is that America is a choice land above all other lands, and that the God of the land is Jesus Christ.  Mormons also hold the belief that the Constitution of the United States was an inspired document, which states, in part, that Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.    

See: Ether 2: 8-10, 12

With that said, if we truly believe that the God of this land is Jesus Christ, and those that don't serve him shall be swept off eventually, where does this leave non-Mormons, non-Christians, atheists and agnostics, Jews and Muslims, etc?  Or the majority of people living here that don't subscribe to Mormon scripture?  We cherish religious freedom in this country.  We value diversity and inclusion and freedom for all.  So how does this square with the sentiment of "we must serve the God of this land, or be swept off"?

 

    

I think that the mistaken assumption here is that this somehow applies to the land now within the boundaries of the USA.  If the latest scholarship is to be believed, this is referring to land further south, in Mexico and central America.  So your comment should be more specifically directed to the peoples and governments of Mexico and Guatemala.  Here in America, we can do whatever we want.

[theplains]

3 hours ago, Sky said:

With that said, if we truly believe that the God of this land is Jesus Christ, and those that don't serve him shall be swept off eventually, where does this leave non-Mormons, non-Christians, atheists and agnostics, Jews and Muslims, etc?  Or the majority of people living here that don't subscribe to Mormon scripture?  We cherish religious freedom in this country.  We value diversity and inclusion and freedom for all.  So how does this square with the sentiment of "we must serve the God of this land, or be swept off"?

If the Book of Mormon is true, the Jaredites and Nephites were 'swept off' for their apostasy.

Jim

[JLHPROF]

4 hours ago, Sky said:

With that said, if we truly believe that the God of this land is Jesus Christ, and those that don't serve him shall be swept off eventually, where does this leave non-Mormons, non-Christians, atheists and agnostics, Jews and Muslims, etc?  Or the majority of people living here that don't subscribe to Mormon scripture?

Waiting to be swept off.  Like you said.

Quote

 We cherish religious freedom in this country.  We value diversity and inclusion and freedom for all.  So how does this square with the sentiment of "we must serve the God of this land, or be swept off"?

It doesn't have to square.  Earthly ideals of diversity and freedom are not eternal in their nature.  Agency will always be extant but there will always be a consequence for every choice.

The scriptures are clear that EVERY knee will bow and EVERY tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ.
All we are doing is waiting for it to happen.  It will be the unavoidable end result.

[Sky]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

Waiting to be swept off.  Like you said.

It doesn't have to square.  Earthly ideals of diversity and freedom are not eternal in their nature.  Agency will always be extant but there will always be a consequence for every choice.

The scriptures are clear that EVERY knee will bow and EVERY tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ.
All we are doing is waiting for it to happen.  It will be the unavoidable end result.

 Yes but, I just wondered if there was more room for flexibility and nuance with interpreting these particular verses...(?)   

We say we believe in a loving God and in freedom of religion, but I guess that only goes so far?  

Diversity and freedom are simply new-age, liberal ideals with no eternal value?  I can't accept that.    

Seems to me like the millennium and heaven are going to be very boring if everybody is just like us.    

[JLHPROF]

4 hours ago, Sky said:

 Yes but, I just wondered if there was more room for flexibility and nuance with interpreting these particular verses...(?)   

We say we believe in a loving God and in freedom of religion, but I guess that only goes so far?  

Diversity and freedom are simply new-age, liberal ideals with no eternal value?  I can't accept that.    

Seems to me like the millennium and heaven are going to be very boring if everybody is just like us.    

Actually, in the Millennium there will still be other religions.

Diversity and freedom do have eternal value, but not in the mortal ways they are applied.
Actually - that's a pretty interesting idea for a thread.

[BCSpace]

Quote

With that said, if we truly believe that the God of this land is Jesus Christ, and those that don't serve him shall be swept off eventually, where does this leave non-Mormons, non-Christians, atheists and agnostics, Jews and Muslims, etc?

Guests with an option to become members of the family.

Edited May 20, 2016 by BCSpace
Update

[BCSpace]

Quote

Side note: I was heartened by former Utah senator Bob Bennett's deathbed apology to Muslims:

http://qz.com/688017/a-republican-senator-on-his-deathbed-apologized-to-muslims-for-donald-trump/

I found it extremely disheartening to see that Bennett too succumbed to the Left's spin doctoring.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, BCSpace said:

I found it extremely disheartening to see that Bennett too succumbed to the Left's spin doctoring.

For that alone he will find himself in Outer Darkness forever. A shame. You would think the apostles would be pounding the pulpit warning us that holding such opinions will damn us all to hell but they stay silent. If it were not for the hundreds of scriptures pointing out the divinity of the Free Market you would almost think God had not spoken on the issue.

[Damien the Leper]

It should also be noted that no version of Jerusalem will be springing up in Jackson County over the next 100 million years.

[Maedros]

Well, the Americas (North and South) have the highest combined Christian population in the world, South America has the highest Latter-day saint population, so Jesus Christ is in fact the God of this Land (North and South America). Being a Christian doesn't mean that you have to be Mormon or belong to a Christian church - Christlike attributes are had among the LGBT community, non-Mormons, atheists, agnostics, etc. The Master himself gave the criteria of service in Matthew 25:35-46:

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

 35 For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand,Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

 42 For I was an hungered, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

"

[Maedros]

Furthermore, in the Book of the Jubilees there's an account of how Noah divided the earth - Shem's portion was Palestine and the Americas; Ham: Africa and Japheth: the Northern lands. What I find noteworthy is the description of the lands: Shem's is neither hot nor cold (Americas), Ham's is hot (Africa) and Japheth's (Russia and the Nordic countries and Asia) is cold; but read for yourself below:

And it came to pass in the beginning of the thirty-third jubilee that they divided the earth into three parts, for Shem and Ham and Japheth, according to the inheritance of each, in the first year in the first week, when one of us 
11 who had been sent, was with them. And he called his sons, and they drew nigh to him, they and their children, and he divided the earth into the lots, which his three sons were to take in possession, and they reached forth their hands, and took the writing out of the bosom of Noah, their father. 
12 And there came forth on the writing as Shem's lot the middle of the earth which he should take as an inheritance for himself and for his sons for the generations of eternity, from the middle of the mountain range of Rafa, from the mouth of the water from the river Tina, and his portion goes towards the west through the midst of this river, and it extends till it reaches the water of the abysses, out of which this river goes forth and pours its waters into the sea Me'at, and this river flows into the great sea. And all that is towards the north is Japheth's, and all that is towards the 
13 south belongs to Shem. And it extends till it reaches Karaso: this is in the bosom of the tongue 
14 which looks towards the south. And his portion extends along the great sea, and it extends in a straight line till it reaches the west of the tongue which looks towards the south: for this sea is 
15 named the tongue of the Egyptian Sea. And it turns from here towards the south towards the mouth of the great sea on the shore of (its) waters, and it extends to the west to 'Afra, and it extends till it reaches the waters of the river Gihon, and to the south of the waters of Gihon, to the 
16 banks of this river. And it extends towards the east, till it reaches the Garden of Eden, to the south thereof, [to the south] and from the east of the whole land of Eden and of the whole east, it turns to the east and proceeds till it reaches the east of the mountain named Rafa, and it descends 
17 to the bank of the mouth of the river Tina. This portion came forth by lot for Shem and his sons, 
18 that they should possess it for ever unto his generations for evermore. And Noah rejoiced that this portion came forth for Shem and for his sons, and he remembered all that he had spoken with his mouth in prophecy; for he had said: 
'Blessed be the Lord God of Shem 
And may the Lord dwell in the dwelling of Shem.' 
19 And he knew that the Garden of Eden is the holy of holies, and the dwelling of the Lord, and Mount Sinai the centre of the desert, and Mount Zion -the centre of the navel of the earth: these three 
20 were created as holy places facing each other. And he blessed the God of gods, who had put the 
21 word of the Lord into his mouth, and the Lord for evermore. And he knew that a blessed portion and a blessing had come to Shem and his sons unto the generations for ever -the whole land of Eden and the whole land of the Red Sea, and the whole land of the east and India, and on the Red Sea and the mountains thereof, and all the land of Bashan, and all the land of Lebanon and the islands of Kaftur, and all the mountains of Sanir and 'Amana, and the mountains of Asshur in the north, and all the land of Elam, Asshur, and Babel, and Susan and Ma'edai, and all the mountains of Ararat, and all the region beyond the sea, which is beyond the mountains of Asshur towards the 
22 north, a blessed and spacious land, and all that is in it is very good. And for Ham came forth the second portion, beyond the Gihon towards the south to the right of the Garden, and it extends towards the south and it extends to all the mountains of fire, and it extends towards the west to the sea of 'Atel and it extends towards the west till it reaches the sea of Ma'uk -that (sea) into which 
23 everything which is not destroyed descends. And it goes forth towards the north to the limits of Gadir, and it goes forth to the coast of the waters of the sea to the waters of the great sea till it draws near to the river Gihon, and goes along the river Gihon till it reaches the right of the Garden 
24 of Eden. And this is the land which came forth for Ham as the portion which he was to occupy 
25 for ever for himself and his sons unto their generations for ever. And for Japheth came forth the third portion beyond the river Tina to the north of the outflow of its waters, and it extends north- 
26 easterly to the whole region of Gog, and to all the country east thereof. And it extends northerly to the north, and it extends to the mountains of Qelt towards the north, and towards the sea of 
27 Ma'uk, and it goes forth to the east of Gadir as far as the region of the waters of the sea. And it extends until it approaches the west of Fara and it returns towards 'Aferag, and it extends easterly 
28 to the waters of the sea of Me'at. And it extends to the region of the river Tina in a north-easterly direction until it approaches the boundary of its waters towards the mountain Rafa, and it turns 
29 round towards the north. This is the land which came forth for Japheth and his sons as the portion of his inheritance which he should possess for himself and his sons, for their generations for ever; 
30 five great islands, and a great land in the north. But it is cold, and the land of Ham is hot, and the land of Shem is neither hot nor cold, but it is of blended cold and heat.

http://amightywind.com/treasure/jubilees/jub1-9.html

[CV75]

21 hours ago, Sky said:

A widely held belief by Mormons, and supported by Book of Mormon scripture, is that America is a choice land above all other lands, and that the God of the land is Jesus Christ.  Mormons also hold the belief that the Constitution of the United States was an inspired document, which states, in part, that Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.    

See: Ether 2: 8-10, 12

With that said, if we truly believe that the God of this land is Jesus Christ, and those that don't serve him shall be swept off eventually, where does this leave non-Mormons, non-Christians, atheists and agnostics, Jews and Muslims, etc?  Or the majority of people living here that don't subscribe to Mormon scripture?  We cherish religious freedom in this country.  We value diversity and inclusion and freedom for all.  So how does this square with the sentiment of "we must serve the God of this land, or be swept off"?

Side note: I was heartened by former Utah senator Bob Bennett's deathbed apology to Muslims:

http://qz.com/688017/a-republican-senator-on-his-deathbed-apologized-to-muslims-for-donald-trump/

I think “serving” takes many forms, and whatever one’s religion or lack thereof, he serves Christ if he follows his conscience, or the “better angels of our nature” since I believe that is an expression of the light of Christ. So we can have a diversity of religions with adherents who fundamentally abide in the light of Christ. But when, for example, “the time comes that the voice of the people doth choose iniquity, then is the time that the judgments of God will come.” I take iniquity to be a rejection of the light of Christ, “having their conscience seared with a hot iron,” and so “because iniquity shall abound, the love of men shall wax cold.”

[Scott Lloyd]

22 hours ago, Sky said:

A widely held belief by Mormons, and supported by Book of Mormon scripture, is that America is a choice land above all other lands, and that the God of the land is Jesus Christ.  Mormons also hold the belief that the Constitution of the United States was an inspired document, which states, in part, that Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.    

See: Ether 2: 8-10, 12

With that said, if we truly believe that the God of this land is Jesus Christ, and those that don't serve him shall be swept off eventually, where does this leave non-Mormons, non-Christians, atheists and agnostics, Jews and Muslims, etc?  Or the majority of people living here that don't subscribe to Mormon scripture?  We cherish religious freedom in this country.  We value diversity and inclusion and freedom for all.  So how does this square with the sentiment of "we must serve the God of this land, or be swept off"?

Side note: I was heartened by former Utah senator Bob Bennett's deathbed apology to Muslims:

http://qz.com/688017/a-republican-senator-on-his-deathbed-apologized-to-muslims-for-donald-trump/

 

    

You don't have to be Mormon to serve the God of this land. I would add that a lot of people serve God who know little or nothing about Mormonism.

And I appreciate Sen. Bennett's sentiment, but I've never believed a person could apologize for a thing for which he wasn't to blame.

Otherwise, I could apologize for a whole lot of things others do that I don't like. I might start with apologizing to my fellow Latter-day Saints for rockpond's pushing for the Church to condone and embrace homosexual behavior.

[Scott Lloyd]

51 minutes ago, CV75 said:

I think “serving” takes many forms, and whatever one’s religion or lack thereof, he serves Christ if he follows his conscience, or the “better angels of our nature” since I believe that is an expression of the light of Christ. So we can have a diversity of religions with adherents who fundamentally abide in the light of Christ. But when, for example, “the time comes that the voice of the people doth choose iniquity, then is the time that the judgments of God will come.” I take iniquity to be a rejection of the light of Christ, “having their conscience seared with a hot iron,” and so “because iniquity shall abound, the love of men shall wax cold.”

 

This essentially expresses my view.

[CV75]

44 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

This essentially expresses my view.

I just happened to be reading today in Alma 23:1-3, "Behold, now it came to pass that the king of the Lamanites sent a proclamation …that the word of God might have no obstruction … that his people might be convinced …that they were all brethren, and that they ought not to murder, nor to plunder, nor to steal, nor to commit adultery, nor to commit any manner of wickedness."

I think the Lord is telling us in our day that this land is meant to be a land of religious freedom for all, so that the adherents of any religion 9or none) do not murder, plunder, steal, commit adultery or any manner of wickedness. And there's the rub, apparently...

[JLHPROF]

11 hours ago, Valentinus said:

It should also be noted that no version of Jerusalem will be springing up in Jackson County over the next 100 million years.

I welcome your surprise when it does.
(Same reason I want the job of greeting atheists when they cross over - love that look of shock).

[Damien the Leper]

3 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

I welcome your surprise when it does.
(Same reason I want the job of greeting atheists when they cross over - love that look of shock).

What a joke! I can never read statements like this without laughing.

[jkwilliams]

20 hours ago, BCSpace said:

I found it extremely disheartening to see that Bennett too succumbed to the Left's spin doctoring.

I've known Bob Bennett most of my life. He did not succumb to anyone's spin doctoring. It must really bother you that a good man would express tolerance for Muslims in this country. Pathetic. 

[Damien the Leper]

14 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

You don't have to be Mormon to serve the God of this land. I would add that a lot of people serve God who know little or nothing about Mormonism.

And I appreciate Sen. Bennett's sentiment, but I've never believed a person could apologize for a thing for which he wasn't to blame.

Otherwise, I could apologize for a whole lot of things others do that I don't like. I might start with apologizing to my fellow Latter-day Saints for rockpond's pushing for the Church to condone and embrace homosexual behavior.

I'd apologize for people living in the 21st century idolizing the 1950s brand of familial and cultural ethics that have little influence and necessity for today's world. May as well bring back segregation, racism and misogyny. 

Edited May 21, 2016 by Valentinus

[BCSpace]

On 5/21/2016 at 7:15 PM, jkwilliams said:

I've known Bob Bennett most of my life. He did not succumb to anyone's spin doctoring. It must really bother you that a good man would express tolerance for Muslims in this country. Pathetic. 

Of course he succumbed; swallowed it hook, line, and sinker EU-style. What he, and some of the rest of you, believe is intolerance towards Muslims is actually a very appropriate intolerance towards beliefs, actions, and behaviors that are incompatible with many of the very American notions some of you are claiming to support such as religious freedom.  In an effort to look tolerant and popular, some of you have thrown your principles straight out the window.  It's quite humorous because it's being done with a straight face.

Edited May 22, 2016 by BCSpace
Grammar

[jkwilliams]

9 minutes ago, BCSpace said:

Of course he succumbed; swallowed it hook, line, and sinker EU-style. What he, and some of the rest of you, believe is intolerance towards Muslims is actually a very appropriate intolerance towards beliefs, actions, and behaviors that are incompatible with many of the very American notions some of you are claiming to support such as religious freedom.  In an effort to look tolerant and popular, some of you have thrown your principles straight out the window.  It's quite humorous because it's being done with a straight face.

A blanket ban on all members of a religious group is the height of intolerance, whether you see it or not. Bob Bennett was a better man than those calling for religious discrimination, no contest. 

[BCSpace]

11 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

A blanket ban on all members of a religious group is the height of intolerance, whether you see it or not. Bob Bennett was a better man than those calling for religious discrimination, no contest. 

Do you understand the context of what was said or even know the full quote?  Of course not.  Such a knee-jerk reaction is why I said "hook, line, and sinker".

[jkwilliams]

3 minutes ago, BCSpace said:

Do you understand the context of what was said or even know the full quote?  Of course not.  Such a knee-jerk reaction is why I said "hook, line, and sinker".

Enlighten us, please. 

[jkwilliams]

For context, here's the entire statement:

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-statement-on-preventing-muslim-immigration