BCSpace Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 4 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: Enlighten us, please. You're the one who who claimed "A blanket ban on all members of a religious group is the height of intolerance". Please show us specifically what quote you are referring to. I think I know which one you are referring to, but I'm not completely sure. Your quotation from where you are getting these claims, and addressing of them point by point, will also help establish if you understand or even know the context.
jkwilliams Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 3 minutes ago, BCSpace said: You're the one who who claimed "A blanket ban on all members of a religious group is the height of intolerance". Please show us specifically what quote you are referring to. I think I know which one you are referring to, but I'm not completely sure. Your quotation from where you are getting these claims, and addressing of them point by point, will also help establish if you understand or even know the context. From the Trump campaign site: DONALD J. TRUMP STATEMENT ON PREVENTING MUSLIM IMMIGRATION (New York, NY) December 7th, 2015, -- Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on. According to Pew Research, among others, there is great hatred towards Americans by large segments of the Muslim population. Most recently, a poll from the Center for Security Policy released data showing "25% of those polled agreed that violence against Americans here in the United States is justified as a part of the global jihad" and 51% of those polled, "agreed that Muslims in America should have the choice of being governed according to Shariah." Shariah authorizes such atrocities as murder against non-believers who won't convert, beheadings and more unthinkable acts that pose great harm to Americans, especially women. Mr. Trump stated, "Without looking at the various polling data, it is obvious to anybody the hatred is beyond comprehension. Where this hatred comes from and why we will have to determine. Until we are able to determine and understand this problem and the dangerous threat it poses, our country cannot be the victims of horrendous attacks by people that believe only in Jihad, and have no sense of reason or respect for human life. If I win the election for President, we are going to Make America Great Again." - Donald J. Trump
BCSpace Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 (edited) 9 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: From the Trump campaign site: DONALD J. TRUMP STATEMENT ON PREVENTING MUSLIM IMMIGRATION (New York, NY) December 7th, 2015, -- Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on. According to Pew Research, among others, there is great hatred towards Americans by large segments of the Muslim population. Most recently, a poll from the Center for Security Policy released data showing "25% of those polled agreed that violence against Americans here in the United States is justified as a part of the global jihad" and 51% of those polled, "agreed that Muslims in America should have the choice of being governed according to Shariah." Shariah authorizes such atrocities as murder against non-believers who won't convert, beheadings and more unthinkable acts that pose great harm to Americans, especially women. Mr. Trump stated, "Without looking at the various polling data, it is obvious to anybody the hatred is beyond comprehension. Where this hatred comes from and why we will have to determine. Until we are able to determine and understand this problem and the dangerous threat it poses, our country cannot be the victims of horrendous attacks by people that believe only in Jihad, and have no sense of reason or respect for human life. If I win the election for President, we are going to Make America Great Again." - Donald J. Trump Thank you. I think that quote alone provides enough information to falsify the notion, a propaganda claim really, that this is some sort of "height of intolerance" the way I think you mean it. Unless of course you agree that violent jihad against Americans is justified and that Muslims in America should be judged by Sharia law rather than already extant American Constitutional law. Do you? Consider also; should a Muslim in America who wants to convert to Christianity or merely leave their faith be subject to the penalties of Sharia law? What power of life and liberty should a religion have in law over an American citizen? The statement you quoted actually seeks in many ways, if you understand the context, to protect Muslims. Edited May 22, 2016 by BCSpace Minor Correction
jkwilliams Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 Just now, BCSpace said: Thank you. I think that quote alone provides enough information to falsify the notion, a propaganda claim really, that this is some sort of "height of intolerance" they way you expressed it. Unless of course you agree that violent jihad against Americans is justified and that Muslims in America should be judged by Sharia law rather than already extant American Constitutional law. Do you? Should a Muslim in America who wants to convert to Christianity or merely leave their faith be subject to the penalties of Sharia law? So, along with Trump you support stopping all Muslims from entering this country. I rest my case.
BCSpace Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 (edited) 5 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: So, along with Trump you support stopping all Muslims from entering this country. I rest my case. What case? You merely practiced avoision (a perfectly cromulent word btw) by not answering the context and questions I raised but instead have put words in my mouth and changed the subject. from whether or not this is the "height of intolerance" to my supposed support of Trump's proposal (I've not yet said whether I support it or not or something in between) as somehow proving your case. Edited May 22, 2016 by BCSpace Update
jkwilliams Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 Just now, BCSpace said: What case? You merely practiced avoision (a perfectly cromulent word btw) by not answering the context and questions I raised but instead have put words in my mouth. The Trump quote says Muslims hate us and quotes some polls (without context, I might add) to say all Muslims should be banned from entering this country. That's bigotry. Oh, but he clarified: it was just a suggestion. What I find a little hilarious is that some guy from a tiny town in Idaho thinks we should be afraid of Muslims I guess I should have been scared when my neighbors asked me to take delivery of their Koran last week. Maybe the pharmacist who filled my prescriptions yesterday poisoned the pills; she was wearing a hijab, after all. Maybe the 20 or so Muslim kids who wait for the school bus with my son every morning are jihadists in embryo.
carbon dioxide Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 If the Book of Mormon setting was in central America, then the words in Ether 2 probably are not referring to the USA.
carbon dioxide Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 2 hours ago, jkwilliams said: The Trump quote says Muslims hate us and quotes some polls (without context, I might add) to say all Muslims should be banned from entering this country. That's bigotry. Oh, but he clarified: it was just a suggestion. What I find a little hilarious is that some guy from a tiny town in Idaho thinks we should be afraid of Muslims I guess I should have been scared when my neighbors asked me to take delivery of their Koran last week. Maybe the pharmacist who filled my prescriptions yesterday poisoned the pills; she was wearing a hijab, after all. Maybe the 20 or so Muslim kids who wait for the school bus with my son every morning are jihadists in embryo. There are many Muslims that do not hate non-Muslims and there are many Muslims that do. A lot of it has to do where you are at. The Muslims in America are for the most part good people. Now go to Pakistan and you might get a different experience.
jkwilliams Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 Just now, carbon dioxide said: There are many Muslims that do not hate non-Muslims and there are many Muslims that do. A lot of it has to do where you are at. The Muslims in America are for the most part good people. Now go to Pakistan and you might get a different experience. I don't dispute that, but that doesn't justify keeping all Muslims from entering our country.
carbon dioxide Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 On 5/20/2016 at 10:53 PM, Valentinus said: It should also be noted that no version of Jerusalem will be springing up in Jackson County over the next 100 million years. New Jerusalem is not Jerusalem.
carbon dioxide Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 On 5/19/2016 at 10:00 AM, Sky said: With that said, if we truly believe that the God of this land is Jesus Christ, and those that don't serve him shall be swept off eventually, where does this leave non-Mormons, non-Christians, atheists and agnostics, Jews and Muslims, etc? Or the majority of people living here that don't subscribe to Mormon scripture? We cherish religious freedom in this country. We value diversity and inclusion and freedom for all. So how does this square with the sentiment of "we must serve the God of this land, or be swept off"? It says " or they shall beswept off when the fulness of his wrath shall come upon them. And the fulness of his wrath cometh upon them when they are ripened in iniquity. " It is not an issue of Mormon vs non-Mormon itself or serving God directly. It has to do with wickedness whether one is a Mormon or not. If the people ripen in sin like many of the Book of Mormon cities that were destroyed right before 3 Nephi 11 or like Sodom in the Old Testament or the people that Noah was around, then God will destroy them. God is merciful and is very patient but there does come a point when God will not tolerate the wickedness anymore. God does have his limits and when the limits are passed, he wipes the people out. Better to destroy the people than have the evil go on forever.
longview Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 50 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: The Trump quote says Muslims hate us It is not just Trump saying this but I have observed for many years (long before Trump started campaigning) that most moslem nations and communities demonstrate a deep and vociferous hatred of American ideals and Constitutional protection of individual liberty. They have repeatedly chanted "death to America" in Hamas and PLO controlled areas despite the enormous subsidies and assistance given to them from western nations. Even Iran continues to show belligerence to America despite the recent "agreement" Obama made with them. Iran has ongoing ballistic missile testing, sponsorship of terrorism by Hezbollah, attempts to supply Hamas with shipment of arms, plus any number of unpublicized offensive operations. We see more disturbing signs of Jihad turmoil in Indonesia, Philippines, and especially India. Even Red China has its hands full with restive moslem citizens. Read the works of Robert Spencer for further documentation. 1 hour ago, jkwilliams said: to say all Muslims should be banned from entering this country. That's bigotry. I don't think it is bigotry but prudence. We may building up a "powder keg" in our communities. There are large segments in various cities that reject assimilation and advocate imposition of sharia law. Many of their practices involve subjugation of women, genital mutilation, "honor killings" (which has actually happened in several places), medieval punishments (barbaric in nature), etc. They are demanding to hold their own sharia law courts instead of the normal legal venues. Sharia law is very incompatible with Constitutional guarantees. It is incomprehensible to see how the "multiculturists" would want to gloss over the abuses of their women and other abhorrent methods. The Koran actually preaches and mandates all of those things. Moslem immigrants who want to stay in this country or become citizens should remember their OATH of citizenship and FULLY support the US Constitution. If they cannot accommodate BOTH then they should NOT be here. Not only do we need to put a pause on moslem immigration, we should seriously consider expelling (or exiling) current moslem residents back to where they came from. This also should apply to Louis Farrakhan and his hate cult, the Nation of Islam. And Rev. White, former moslem and currently preacher of Anti-Americanism. If America can RIGHTLY put pressure on the KKK, we can also give careful consideration of advocacy of violence against our citizens being preached in any mosque anywhere. We don't need to put up with bland "martyrdom operations" like the one perpetrated in San Bernardino and other places.
jkwilliams Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 6 minutes ago, longview said: It is not just Trump saying this but I have observed for many years (long before Trump started campaigning) that most moslem nations and communities demonstrate a deep and vociferous hatred of American ideals and Constitutional protection of individual liberty. They have repeatedly chanted "death to America" in Hamas and PLO controlled areas despite the enormous subsidies and assistance given to them from western nations. Even Iran continues to show belligerence to America despite the recent "agreement" Obama made with them. Iran has ongoing ballistic missile testing, sponsorship of terrorism by Hezbollah, attempts to supply Hamas with shipment of arms, plus any number of unpublicized offensive operations. We see more disturbing signs of Jihad turmoil in Indonesia, Philippines, and especially India. Even Red China has its hands full with restive moslem citizens. Read the works of Robert Spencer for further documentation. I don't think it is bigotry but prudence. We may building up a "powder keg" in our communities. There are large segments in various cities that reject assimilation and advocate imposition of sharia law. Many of their practices involve subjugation of women, genital mutilation, "honor killings" (which has actually happened in several places), medieval punishments (barbaric in nature), etc. They are demanding to hold their own sharia law courts instead of the normal legal venues. Sharia law is very incompatible with Constitutional guarantees. It is incomprehensible to see how the "multiculturists" would want to gloss over the abuses of their women and other abhorrent methods. The Koran actually preaches and mandates all of those things. Moslem immigrants who want to stay in this country or become citizens should remember their OATH of citizenship and FULLY support the US Constitution. If they cannot accommodate BOTH then they should NOT be here. Not only do we need to put a pause on moslem immigration, we should seriously consider expelling (or exiling) current moslem residents back to where they came from. This also should apply to Louis Farrakhan and his hate cult, the Nation of Islam. And Rev. White, former moslem and currently preacher of Anti-Americanism. If America can RIGHTLY put pressure on the KKK, we can also give careful consideration of advocacy of violence against our citizens being preached in any mosque anywhere. We don't need to put up with bland "martyrdom operations" like the one perpetrated in San Bernardino and other places. I'm sorry, but this is horrifying, and you should be ashamed of yourself. If you come after my Muslim neighbors, who will defend you when they come for the Mormons?
The Nehor Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 9 minutes ago, longview said: It is not just Trump saying this but I have observed for many years (long before Trump started campaigning) that most moslem nations and communities demonstrate a deep and vociferous hatred of American ideals and Constitutional protection of individual liberty. They have repeatedly chanted "death to America" in Hamas and PLO controlled areas despite the enormous subsidies and assistance given to them from western nations. Even Iran continues to show belligerence to America despite the recent "agreement" Obama made with them. Iran has ongoing ballistic missile testing, sponsorship of terrorism by Hezbollah, attempts to supply Hamas with shipment of arms, plus any number of unpublicized offensive operations. We see more disturbing signs of Jihad turmoil in Indonesia, Philippines, and especially India. Even Red China has its hands full with restive moslem citizens. Read the works of Robert Spencer for further documentation. I don't think it is bigotry but prudence. We may building up a "powder keg" in our communities. There are large segments in various cities that reject assimilation and advocate imposition of sharia law. Many of their practices involve subjugation of women, genital mutilation, "honor killings" (which has actually happened in several places), medieval punishments (barbaric in nature), etc. They are demanding to hold their own sharia law courts instead of the normal legal venues. Sharia law is very incompatible with Constitutional guarantees. It is incomprehensible to see how the "multiculturists" would want to gloss over the abuses of their women and other abhorrent methods. The Koran actually preaches and mandates all of those things. Moslem immigrants who want to stay in this country or become citizens should remember their OATH of citizenship and FULLY support the US Constitution. If they cannot accommodate BOTH then they should NOT be here. Not only do we need to put a pause on moslem immigration, we should seriously consider expelling (or exiling) current moslem residents back to where they came from. This also should apply to Louis Farrakhan and his hate cult, the Nation of Islam. And Rev. White, former moslem and currently preacher of Anti-Americanism. If America can RIGHTLY put pressure on the KKK, we can also give careful consideration of advocacy of violence against our citizens being preached in any mosque anywhere. We don't need to put up with bland "martyrdom operations" like the one perpetrated in San Bernardino and other places. Fascism is always presented as a necessity for survival.
Recommended Posts