Bobbieaware Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 4 hours ago, Nevo said: I can't speak for VGJ but I know I would find that distasteful. I would like to believe that God thinks more highly of worthy single women than to devise a plan where the only way they can receive a fullness of celestial glory is to become a polygamous wife for eternity. There is nothing distasteful when the institution is viewed and understood with spiritual, rather than carnal, eyes. Holy beings of perfect love and unselfishness can make it work without anyone feeling demeaned or slighted. Why some members insist on viewing celestial plural marriage with the distorted perspective of carnal eyes is beyond me. The exalted men and women who inhabit the highest degree of glory in the celestial kingdom have put the petty jealousies and competitiveness of the fallen nature far behind them. 2
cinepro Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) 9 hours ago, Bobbieaware said: Comparing the sexual infidelities and exploits of a fallen carnal man, who possesses little or no faith in Christ, with the unselfish and holy beings who live lives of perfect divine love in heaven is absurd. The reason why heavenly plural marriage seems impure and unholy to you is because you too are looking at that heavenly institution with the distorted perspective of carnal eyes. It's confusing in this thread to jump back and forth between discussing "celestial polygamy" and earthly polygamy, but I wonder if the pain felt by VGJ's mother feels any different than the pain felt by some polygamous wives, especially if they were to find out their husband had been practicing polygamy without their knowledge. Edited April 26, 2016 by cinepro 1
thesometimesaint Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 Their emotions probably filled the gambit from the delighted to the obscene.
ttribe Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 8 hours ago, Bobbieaware said: There is nothing distasteful when the institution is viewed and understood with spiritual, rather than carnal, eyes. Holy beings of perfect love and unselfishness can make it work without anyone feeling demeaned or slighted. Why some members insist on viewing celestial plural marriage with the distorted perspective of carnal eyes is beyond me. The exalted men and women who inhabit the highest degree of glory in the celestial kingdom have put the petty jealousies and competitiveness of the fallen nature far behind them. This response makes one wonder why "carnal" beings would be commanded to live polygamy here on Earth at all, then.
JLHPROF Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 48 minutes ago, ttribe said: This response makes one wonder why "carnal" beings would be commanded to live polygamy here on Earth at all, then. To help us to become more like God. Same as most commandments we have to live while stuck as carnal beings. 1
ttribe Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 34 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: To help us to become more like God. Same as most commandments we have to live while stuck as carnal beings. Unlike virtually every other Earthly commandment I can think of, this one has a long history of harmful corruption and exploitation by people allegedly attempting to live it. If there really is such a thing as Eternal Progression, is it impossible that there exist laws and commands which can only be lived after this life? If so, why couldn't this be one of them? The questions I am posing are purely academic, of course. But, my observations and studies on this issue do make me wonder.
T-Shirt Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 7 minutes ago, ttribe said: this one has a long history of harmful corruption and exploitation by people allegedly attempting to live it. Can you provide some examples of this among the Latter-day Saints? Ten or fifteen should be a good start since the history of such behavior is long. 1
Ahab Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 21 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: I still want someone to tell me what the benefits of having more than 1 wife in the Celestial Kingdom than having just 1 wife in the Celestial Kingdom. With that 1 wife can't you still have an eternal increase in children and world's without end to populate? What's the benefit of having more wives in heaven over having just 1? Or is there no benefit. The only reason I can think of got my polygamy thread locked and that reason is to have more female companions to have spirit children with, but that wouldn't make sense since you have eternity to have a continuation of the seeds forever with 1 companion. Again it's all about having more women to have babies with. What other need for polygamy in the afterlife is there? Women are wonderful as wives and I think they will always be wonderful to have as wives regardless of how many any man has. Other than that the only other benefit I can see to having more than one wife is the ability to have children faster than he could with only one wife. But still I don't think men should daydream about having more than one wife. I think we should be happy to have however many we have even when we have only one wife.
Ahab Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 19 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: All the benefits I can think of for polygamy are temporal and not eternal. What am I missing? The idea of the more the merrier, maybe? Imagine having a wife that wouldn't be bothered by the idea of her husband having more than one wife. Not jealous at all. Doesn't see anything wrong with it as long as her husband is a good man who truly loves her and also loves all of his other wives. Doesn't think she should be the only woman he loves as his wife. But don't go daydreaming about it. As things are now you're only supposed to have one wife, or only one that is living with you.
bcuzbcuz Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 3 minutes ago, Ahab said: Women are wonderful as wives and I think they will always be wonderful to have as wives regardless of how many any man has. Other than that the only other benefit I can see to having more than one wife is the ability to have children faster than he could with only one wife. But still I don't think men should daydream about having more than one wife. I think we should be happy to have however many we have even when we have only one wife. Having children Faster? Please explain how long eternity is ( or forever and ever and ever) and any benefit that would arise for being "faster"? And I agree, I don't think men should daydream about having more than one wife. I view that as nothing short of disgusting and immoral.. I've seen people post here about how they conspire with their present wife to prepare for multiple wives. Again, I find such behaviour disgusting and immoral. 1
ALarson Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 22 minutes ago, T-Shirt said: Can you provide some examples of this among the Latter-day Saints? Where did ttribe specify that they were speaking only of Latter-day Saints and polygamy? They stated: 33 minutes ago, ttribe said: Unlike virtually every other Earthly commandment I can think of, this one has a long history of harmful corruption and exploitation by people allegedly attempting to live it. 1
ttribe Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ALarson said: Where did ttribe specify that they were speaking only of Latter-day Saints and polygamy? They stated: 32 minutes ago, T-Shirt said: Can you provide some examples of this among the Latter-day Saints? Ten or fifteen should be a good start since the history of such behavior is long. First, see ALarson's comment above. I had in mind every example rooted in religious belief; not just our church. Second, I think the LDS-legacy of polygamy being lived out by the Fundamentalist church and the various offshoots (primarily) in Utah, Arizona, Mexico and Canada has to be considered in that discussion, whether we like it or not. Edited April 26, 2016 by ttribe 1
ttribe Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 35 minutes ago, Ahab said: Women are wonderful as wives and I think they will always be wonderful to have as wives regardless of how many any man has. Other than that the only other benefit I can see to having more than one wife is the ability to have children faster than he could with only one wife. But still I don't think men should daydream about having more than one wife. I think we should be happy to have however many we have even when we have only one wife. 28 minutes ago, Ahab said: The idea of the more the merrier, maybe? Imagine having a wife that wouldn't be bothered by the idea of her husband having more than one wife. Not jealous at all. Doesn't see anything wrong with it as long as her husband is a good man who truly loves her and also loves all of his other wives. Doesn't think she should be the only woman he loves as his wife. But don't go daydreaming about it. As things are now you're only supposed to have one wife, or only one that is living with you. Irony meter pegged. Ahab warns against "daydreaming" about having more than one wife, while writing up posts that outline his personal daydreaming about having more than one wife. 2
Ahab Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 1 hour ago, ttribe said: Irony meter pegged. Ahab warns against "daydreaming" about having more than one wife, while writing up posts that outline his personal daydreaming about having more than one wife. Yes it was ironic wasn't it. Me giving an example of something that I think men should not be doing just because I think it's helpful to give an example of that rather than having people just wonder about what I am talking about. All in a day's work for Prince Ahab, that is.
Ahab Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 2 hours ago, bcuzbcuz said: Having children Faster? Please explain how long eternity is ( or forever and ever and ever) and any benefit that would arise for being "faster"? And I agree, I don't think men should daydream about having more than one wife. I view that as nothing short of disgusting and immoral.. I've seen people post here about how they conspire with their present wife to prepare for multiple wives. Again, I find such behaviour disgusting and immoral. Benefit for being faster in eternity, example #1: With 1000 wives I could have 1000 children in about 9 months, if not sooner. With only 1 wife it would take me 1000 periods of 9 months to have just as many. Etc.
ALarson Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 2 minutes ago, Ahab said: Benefit for being faster in eternity, example #1: With 1000 wives I could have 1000 children in about 9 months, if not sooner. 1
Teancum Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 On 4/24/2016 at 0:24 PM, rodheadlee said: I think this post by MB is an excellent post and goes a long way towards explaining why polygamy is a part of the Celestial Kingdom, even though polygamy is not addressed directly. Polygamy is about sharing and sacrifice to further God's purpose, to increase God's glory. Honestly I find this as one of the most ludicrous arguments to justify LDS polygamy that I see. If this is the case just go out and burn your house down to show your commitment to sacrifice for God.
Tacenda Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) Ahab: "Benefit for being faster in eternity, example #1: With 1000 wives I could have 1000 children in about 9 months, if not sooner. Me: That's a lot of....oops better not say that. Edited April 26, 2016 by Tacenda
Teancum Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 On 4/24/2016 at 1:18 PM, thesometimesaint said: We don't. It is all at Gods' command. If and when God commands me to be polygamous. I'll cross that bridge when I get there. If God commands you to murder would you do it?
Teancum Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 On 4/24/2016 at 3:22 PM, BCSpace said: God has both authorized (2 Samuel 12), and commanded (Jacob 2:30 and D&C 132). Obviously, He can do either or both again. The matter is quite settled. It was not 'man created'. No 2 Samuel simply says God gave David his wives' same as his cows. Nothing in there about having to do polygamy to be exalted. In the Bible God simply seems to have tolerated a barbaric practice. Whether Jacob 2:30 and D&C 132 are God breathed scripture it open for debate.
Teancum Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 On 4/24/2016 at 7:52 PM, rodheadlee said: Seriously? What do you bring to your relationship with your wife? Now multiply that by 5 or whatever.# That would be 5 households to keep running and financed.Time would be the most valuable commodity sacrificed. Oh my what a tough sacrifice.......
Tacenda Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Teancum said: No 2 Samuel simply says God gave David his wives' same as his cows. Nothing in there about having to do polygamy to be exalted. In the Bible God simply seems to have tolerated a barbaric practice. Whether Jacob 2:30 and D&C 132 are God breathed scripture it open for debate. It's no wonder I dislike reading parts of the Bible so much. Scriptures such as the ones on this link make one wonder if God dislikes women. Or men are preferable. I really think polygamy was man made and God didn't okay it. I don't even believe God gave wives like the Bible says it did, or the cows either. I believe that's one man's version of the story, maybe he just wanted more cows or women, and said God told him to do it. That's my take, and probably will be forever. Man made all the way....and if women think polygamy is the bomb, so be it. To each their own I guess. http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible7.htm ETA: And children were abused or killed, the Bible is not my friend. But this probably belongs somewhere else. Anyhoo, I think that it's dangerous to take the Bible literally. There have been many women abused because of it, and in the case of polygamy...that too sometimes. Even the thought that women need to live polygamy in the hereafter is abusive to women, who agonize over it. Edited April 26, 2016 by Tacenda 1
Teancum Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 18 hours ago, JLHPROF said: Exaltation requires marriage. Period. Mormon doctrine says Exaltation requires marriage. And only Mormon Doctrine. The MAJORITY of the other religious doctrine does not require marriage for the highest heaven. Nor does the Bible. Period.
VideoGameJunkie Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 When I get home from work I'll post past prophets making the case for polygamy.
Teancum Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 14 hours ago, Bobbieaware said: Comparing the sexual infidelities and exploits of a fallen carnal man, who possesses little or no faith in Christ, with the unselfish and holy beings who live lives of perfect divine love in heaven is absurd. The reason why heavenly plural marriage seems impure and unholy to you is because you too are looking at that heavenly institution with the distorted perspective of carnal eyes. Calling LDS Polygamy as it started, was rolled out and practiced as holy, divine and pure is more absurd than your response to VGJ. Totally absurd. The mental gymnastics Mormons need to go through to justify this and protect Joseph and his immediate successors is not what is absurd.
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