cinepro Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 1 hour ago, TheSkepticChristian said: I just wonder if the anti-porn campaign makes it more attractive? perhaps anti-porn words backfire? I've never really understood that logic. People don't seek out porn because of what an anti-porn crusader does or doesn't say. They seek out porn because they really, really, really like to look at beautiful naked women (or whoever) doing sexual things (or whatever). As evidenced in this thread, I suspect the biggest problem is that a lot of people don't generally find pornography objectionable, or on par with cholera as a public health issue. In order for meaningful action to be taken at the community level (or, dare I say, the governmental level), that case is going to have to be made on something other than an anecdotal or religious basis.
The Nehor Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 7 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: but perhaps that makes it addictive. We had a similar argument before, people have more fun when they do something they know is not right. It is psychological. Question, do you know an Atheist that is addicted to porn? People like to misbehave, anti-porn words can make it more attractive. While there is an allure to breaking the rules if that allure is why you like to watch pornographic clips you are doing it wrong. It could be a small contributing factor in some cases but compare it to what would happen if the apostles announced that porn was okay. Do you think more LDS would start watching porn because it is okay or there would be a mass exodus away as the exciting allure of being naughty is gone? Yes, I do know of porn addictions. I know of one particular case though I am not sure if he is agnostic or atheist. It was back in college. He spent a lot of time with porn. I do not know a ton of details or want to know but his schoolwork, job, and personal relationships suffered. He went from a fun outgoing guy to a dead inside guy. It was an addiction. It had a negative impact on his life and he did not think he could stop. Some LDS call all porn use an addiction. That is obviously untrue. A person using porn a few times a month is probably not an addict even if it causes problems. 2
TheSkepticChristian Posted March 16, 2016 Author Posted March 16, 2016 3 minutes ago, cinepro said: I've never really understood that logic. People don't seek out porn because of what an anti-porn crusader does or doesn't say. They seek out porn because they really, really, really like to look at beautiful naked women (or whoever) doing sexual things (or whatever). True, but you don't understand the psychology of addiction. Without realizing it themselves, it is more fun to them when they know it is wrong.
TheSkepticChristian Posted March 16, 2016 Author Posted March 16, 2016 6 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Yes, I do know of porn addictions. I know of one particular case though I am not sure if he is agnostic or atheist. If anti-porn words by religion doesn't backfire, then we should be able to find a lot of atheists that are addicted to porn. Are there?
cinepro Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 6 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: True, but you don't understand the psychology of addiction. Without realizing it themselves, it is more fun to them when they know it is wrong. Well, I guess we could test your theory by identifying rates of porn addiction among communities where pornography isn't viewed as being "wrong" compared to those where it is. But we would first need to come up with a definition of what, exactly, "pornography addiction" is, and a way of reliably diagnosing it.
TheSkepticChristian Posted March 16, 2016 Author Posted March 16, 2016 52 minutes ago, cinepro said: Well, I guess we could test your theory by identifying rates of porn addiction among communities where pornography isn't viewed as being "wrong" compared to those where it is. But we would first need to come up with a definition of what, exactly, "pornography addiction" is, and a way of reliably diagnosing it. Yes, I agree. That is why I mentioned the Atheists, they see nothing wrong with pornography.
Raingirl Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 34 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: Yes, I agree. That is why I mentioned the Atheists, they see nothing wrong with pornography. Who are these atheists? What are their names? How many of them are there? Can you please share with this the polls that you took of these atheists and the results, so that we can see how you arrived at this conclusion? You must have tons of data, right? 1
The Nehor Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 1 hour ago, TheSkepticChristian said: If anti-porn words by religion doesn't backfire, then we should be able to find a lot of atheists that are addicted to porn. Are there? I think we do. However the self-reporting rates are probably low. I expect it to blow up in the next decade.
The Nehor Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 1 hour ago, cinepro said: Well, I guess we could test your theory by identifying rates of porn addiction among communities where pornography isn't viewed as being "wrong" compared to those where it is. But we would first need to come up with a definition of what, exactly, "pornography addiction" is, and a way of reliably diagnosing it. I imagine it will never be reported correctly...something like alcoholism now only even more humiliating.
TheSkepticChristian Posted March 16, 2016 Author Posted March 16, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, Raingirl said: Who are these atheists? What are their names? How many of them are there? Can you please share with this the polls that you took of these atheists and the results, so that we can see how you arrived at this conclusion? You must have tons of data, right? Atheists don't think pornography is evil. As for the stats, no, I don't have them. However, the available data that we have says, "Those states that do consume the most porn tend to be more conservative and religious than states with lower levels of consumption, the study finds" https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16680-porn-in-the-usa-conservatives-are-biggest-consumers/ The study doesn't prove anti-porn campaigns backfire, it is true pornography is harder to access in religious states, but the available data is the available data, it doesn't do any favors to anti-porn campaigns. Edited March 16, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
Rivers Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 One harmful aspect of porn use is the need for the user to isolate his/her self from friends and family to engage in porn. Since many atheists probably don't view porn as forbidden, I imagine that there is less secrecy and more openness in their porn use. Maybe porn isn't as destructive with the isolative and secretive factors taken away. I hear of couples that view porn together as a way to spice up their sex lives. I know a sex therapist who talks to couples' bishops abiut giving permission to the couples to watch erotic material for therapeutic purposes.
Tacenda Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 http://radiowest.kuer.org/ Listening to this show right now. "Tuesday, we’re asking the question at the heart of a resolution proposed by Utah Senator Todd Weiler: is pornography a public health crisis? Anti-porn groups point out that we’re not talking about a Playboy centerfold. They say a simple internet search will lead you to free content that’s degrading, violent, and hijacking our sense of healthy sexuality. But others say porn is a symptom, not the cause of anxiety, depression, and shame. Doug is joined by Weiler and others to explore the arguments."
Gray Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 I agree that it's something to be avoided, but this is starting to look like moral panic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic
The Nehor Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 9 hours ago, Rivers said: One harmful aspect of porn use is the need for the user to isolate his/her self from friends and family to engage in porn. Since many atheists probably don't view porn as forbidden, I imagine that there is less secrecy and more openness in their porn use. Maybe porn isn't as destructive with the isolative and secretive factors taken away. I hear of couples that view porn together as a way to spice up their sex lives. I know a sex therapist who talks to couples' bishops abiut giving permission to the couples to watch erotic material for therapeutic purposes. For the first part you could say that sex itself is just as dangerous as usually it involves two people isolating themselves. I maintain that porn use is dangerous. Even worse is the industry that creates it. While most of the legal US porn industry is heavily regulated and those regulations are followed there is a lot of underground stuff that is heavily exploitive.
The Nehor Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 15 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said: Yes, I agree. That is why I mentioned the Atheists, they see nothing wrong with pornography. You do not speak for all atheists. I know some who object to it on moral grounds. 2
TheSkepticChristian Posted March 16, 2016 Author Posted March 16, 2016 (edited) 14 minutes ago, The Nehor said: I maintain that porn use is dangerous and I think anti-porn words make it more attractive and addictive. Why is it that religious states see more online porn? It is true some religious states make it more difficult to get easy access to adult material, but that doesn't mean it is significant because most Americans have internet. What about nude tribes in Africa and South America? You think they have a problem with public nudity? and what is the evidence that porn itself is dangerous? Edited March 16, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
The Nehor Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 7 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: and I think anti-porn words make it more attractive and addictive. Why is it that religious states see more online porn? It is true some religious states make it more difficult to get easy access to adult material, but that doesn't mean it is significant because most Americans have internet. What about nude tribes in Africa and South America? You think they have a problem with public nudity? and what is the evidence that porn itself is dangerous? And I think you are absolutely wrong. The correlation may be due to other factors. Perhaps we should look at strip club availability? It may be there are other equivalents of that kind contributing to the discrepancy or even just social stigma preventing them from visiting such places. Why are you trying to argue that cultures with different modesty standards somehow relate to pornography? 2
ksfisher Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 14 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: and what is the evidence that porn itself is dangerous? Is this a serious question?
ksfisher Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 14 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: What about nude tribes in Africa and South America? You think they have a problem with public nudity? Nudity and pornography are two different things. 2
TheSkepticChristian Posted March 16, 2016 Author Posted March 16, 2016 (edited) 12 minutes ago, The Nehor said: And I think you are absolutely wrong. The correlation may be due to other factors. Perhaps we should look at strip club availability? It may be there are other equivalents of that kind contributing to the discrepancy or even just social stigma preventing them from visiting such places. I don't understand what you just said, but please tell me how I am absolutely wrong? How is porn itself dangerous? 7 minutes ago, ksfisher said: Nudity and pornography are two different things. So I assume you don't have a problem with women breastfeeding in public? So you wouldn't have a problem looking at the naked bike ride protesters? What about the free the nipple women protesters in New York? or simply, what about looking at naked tribe members? 9 minutes ago, ksfisher said: Is this a serious question? Yes Edited March 16, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
ksfisher Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 8 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: So I assume you don't have a problem with women breastfeeding in public? So you wouldn't have a problem looking at the naked bike ride protesters? What about the free the nipple women protesters in New York? or simply, what about looking at naked tribe members? You brought up tribes who traditionally wear less clothing than western societies in the context of a discussion on pornography. I pointed out that nudity and pornography are two different things, in the context of your remark. Now you've changed contexts. 2
Bernard Gui Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 (edited) Having led support groups for family members of addicts (including many addicted to pornography) for 8 years, I can offer first hand anecdotal evidence of the harm caused by pornography addiction. It is just as destructive as heroin, alcohol, crack, or whatever else one uses habitually. It is Satan's perfect tool.... it destroys agency, will, self-respect, ambition, faith, love, and families. It is extremely difficult to control because triggers are almost impossible to avoid. I have personally witnessed the pain, anger, and destruction that results. There is no defense for pornography. I can't believe anyone, especially Latter-day Saints, would come to its defense. Everyone involved is a target of the evil conspiring men and women who produce it that we are warned about in Section 89. Quote 4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation— Let's not gainsay the Brethren on this one. Their warning is loud and clear. We ignore it at our peril. Edited March 16, 2016 by Bernard Gui 3
BlueDreams Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 17 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said: True, but you don't understand the psychology of addiction. Without realizing it themselves, it is more fun to them when they know it is wrong. No offense, but if that's what you think addiction is about, then neither do you. I do think disease and evil language can play an effect on both shame/maintaining behaviors and spousal reactions. But i have yet to meet someone who went to porn after hearing it was bad and they got a little extra kick from knowing it was wrong. I have more to say about the article but I'm about to start another client (ironically whose past divorce was partially brought on by a porn addiction of the ex-partner and current problems are also tied to the sexual/identity problems surrounding that) with luv, bd 2
The Nehor Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 59 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: I don't understand what you just said, but please tell me how I am absolutely wrong? How is porn itself dangerous? It dulls the mind and the spirit and weakens us. Try it and find out. If you have already then I would like to present Exhibit A. 1 hour ago, TheSkepticChristian said: So I assume you don't have a problem with women breastfeeding in public? So you wouldn't have a problem looking at the naked bike ride protesters? What about the free the nipple women protesters in New York? or simply, what about looking at naked tribe members? This is a stupid derail. What level of modesty I or anyone else might find appropriate has nothing to do with pornography. What you do with your old National Geographic magazines might but I do not want to examine that too closely. 1
cinepro Posted March 16, 2016 Posted March 16, 2016 16 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said: Yes, I agree. That is why I mentioned the Atheists, they see nothing wrong with pornography. What do you mean that all "Atheists" see "nothing wrong with pornography"? If I find someone who doesn't believe in God, should I expect that they have no problem with any kind of pornography (including child pornography, violent pornography etc.), and that they believe that everyone, everywhere should be able to view any type of pornography that they desire (even young children)? 2
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