smac97 Posted February 29, 2016 Posted February 29, 2016 (edited) Here: Quote Amazon users are responding after leaders at a Brigham Young University ward reportedly asked students to post five-star reviews on The Book of Mormon's Amazon page. Amid 5-star reviews that have appeared on the page, some users say it was unethical for church leaders to solicit reviews from members. In the Provo Young Single Adults 9th Ward's Facebook group, according to posts published on Imgur and in a Reddit thread, the stake presidency and the bishopric requested all members of the ward publish positive reviews of the book on Amazon. "Hello wardies!" wrote one member in the Facebook post, which was not publicly available Monday afternoon. "Many people against the Church have, sadly, written negative comments about the Book... [Writing a review] is a great opportunity to share your testimony to the world and do online missionary work." The post went on to suggest that members could create new Amazon accounts if they didn't have one already, or borrow their parents' account. "Please accomplish this challenge by the end of the week," the post finished. "Thank you for serving the Lord!" Questions began to pop up on a Latter-day Saint subreddit, drawing attention to the ward leaders' request, and soon, several negative reviews began filtering in. "I am a member of the church of Jesus Christ of later day saints (sic) and was instructed to write a positive review to bolster the numbers. I do not agree with this sort of unethical behavior and my rating will reflect this," wrote one user alongside a one-star review. Amazon lists several versions of the book on its site. One listing for the paper book has received 10 five-star reviews in the past week, though it's unclear if any came from members of the YSA 9th ward. A Kindle edition of the Book of Mormon has received three new negative, one-star reviews over the past two days. The request does not appear to violate Amazon's terms of service, which "...do not permit artists, authors, developers, manufacturers, publishers, sellers or vendors to write Customer Reviews for their own products or services, to post negative reviews on competing products or services, or to vote on the helpfulness of reviews." More here. I'm not sure what is "unethical" about encouraging others to post positive reviews. Also, the article states that "leaders at a Brigham Young University ward reportedly asked students to post five-star reviews on The Book of Mormon's Amazon page," but I did not see such a request. This seems like a contrived issue, and hardly one that is newsworthy. This reader comment from the second link above seems rather apt: Quote While I don’t agree with the approach to ‘borrow’ someone’s account in order to write the review, I fail to see how this is even newsworthy, except for those who want to find fault with the LDS Church. With millions of active members of the LDS Church who publicly bear testimony all of the time that the Book of Mormon is true, why not turn to the internet to express those views? And what is wrong with countering others who want to speak so negatively about it? Are we members expected to remain silent while others tear us down? And so what if we use our organizations—such as stakes and wards—to organize that effort. How is that in any way unethical? They certainly aren’t lying!!! I can tell you that those positive reviews are genuine and written by people who have ACTUALLY READ and STUDIED the book, often multiple times. (And still counting, as we are encouraged to read and study the Book of Mormon throughout our lifetime.) What more qualifications are required to write a five-star review than having read and studied it? I’m a verified buyer on Amazon and I’m going over there right now to check things out, and to write a five-star review because I genuinely believe it is the BEST book on the planet—something I gained from my own personal study of it. And I think it’s a great idea to rally the troops behind it. The most interesting aspect of all of this will be to watch how Amazon handles this. Thanks, -Smac Edited February 29, 2016 by smac97 1
stemelbow Posted February 29, 2016 Posted February 29, 2016 (edited) Doesn't sound like ward members are doing it, at least not at this point. Do they think someone is going to try and read it? Hah..I just checked the Kindle version on Amazon. 45 reviews today. But by far the reviews are one star reviews. A couple of five stars and a couple selected 2 or 3. Great, now their ward's push is only hurting things. People heard of it jumped on amazon today and started going crazy with negative reviews. Guess they didnt' plan this out too well. Edited February 29, 2016 by stemelbow
VideoGameJunkie Posted February 29, 2016 Posted February 29, 2016 Who needs to buy the book on Amazon when the church is giving them away for free? 2
Jeanne Posted February 29, 2016 Posted February 29, 2016 25 minutes ago, smac97 said: Here: More here. I'm not sure what is "unethWowical" about encouraging others to post positive reviews. Also, the article states that "leaders at a Brigham Young University ward reportedly asked students to post five-star reviews on The Book of Mormon's Amazon page," but I did not see such a request. This seems like a contrived issue, and hardly one that is newsworthy. This reader comment from the second link above seems rather apt: Thanks, -Smac Wow..this doesn't leave much room to complain about a lawyer helping out with resignations for publicity. 2
smac97 Posted February 29, 2016 Author Posted February 29, 2016 14 minutes ago, Jeanne said: Wow..this doesn't leave much room to complain about a lawyer helping out with resignations for publicity. Huh? 1
Jeanne Posted February 29, 2016 Posted February 29, 2016 9 minutes ago, smac97 said: Huh? Just saying that if a ward gives stars for the B of M..it is like a publicity stunt. Then to complain about a lawyer (on the other thread) doing resignations for publicity is kind of weird don't you think?
smac97 Posted February 29, 2016 Author Posted February 29, 2016 3 minutes ago, Jeanne said: Just saying that if a ward gives stars for the B of M..it is like a publicity stunt. Then to complain about a lawyer (on the other thread) doing resignations for publicity is kind of weird don't you think? I reject the suggestion that there is logical or moral parity between A) a person publicly sharing their belief in The Book of Mormon, and B) an attorney using publicity adverse to the LDS Church to boost his career prospects. The two are not remotely equivalent. Thanks, -Smac 3
pogi Posted February 29, 2016 Posted February 29, 2016 1 hour ago, stemelbow said: Hah..I just checked the Kindle version on Amazon. 45 reviews today. But by far the reviews are one star reviews. A couple of five stars and a couple selected 2 or 3. Great, now their ward's push is only hurting things. People heard of it jumped on amazon today and started going crazy with negative reviews. Guess they didnt' plan this out too well. Yep, it kind of backfired. Here is one review: Beware of 5 star review because the Mormon church is telling it's members to go on Amazon and write reviews and bare their testimonies about it to bolster ratings. I attached a pictures from a text message sent to church members in Provo, Utah telling them to post 5 star reviews.I was born "under the covenant" -which means I was born into a Mormon family whose parents were temple mormons. They went to the temple to learn the secret handshakes so they could get our family into the highest heaven.I read the book of Mormon and studied it like bible studies in high school and college. But then I have since found real historical and factual information that proves it is a hoax. Do some research on websites like Mormon Stories podcast and exmormons.org where you will get much more factual information about Mormonism than the version those nice mormon missionaries will give you to try and convince you that "the book of Mormon is true".The actual book of Mormon does not explain all of the bizarre doctrine about multiple wives after you get to heaven.Mormons will try and get people to become new converts by telling this elaborate story about how Joseph Smith found the plates and translated them. They really can only appeal to people with the "sheeple" mentality who they can convince to have a "feel good" emotional experience to about the book and the things they tell you that will bring you into God's kingdom. So, if you are of the "sheeple" mentality, that can be swayed into believing something by a charismatic experience, be really careful --because you could be sucked into the cult of Mormonism only to find later that they have some weird beliefs that they don't share upfront.If you are not of the "sheeple" mentality, you are pretty safe because you'll see right through their tactics when they try to "bare their 'testimony' to you that the church is true".Also, you will find some truthful information and actual historical information at exmormons.org about the real origins of the book of mormon and 31st was really happening when Joseph Smith wrote it.Also if you are not mormon, look at the reviews that are positive here on Amazon about it. These people have been under mind control tactics and say the same things over and over that are based in a hypnotically induced trance state --that they come under to believe it is the word and work of God.Another important piece to this puzzle:There has been a lot of historical evidence to prove Joseph Smith was a fraud and this is causing the mormon church to hemorrhage a huge loss of it's membership in recent years. So, just recently, the bishops ans stake presidents (leadership at local levels) have been telling their members to come here on Amazon and give it 5 stars to boost ratings.If you eant some factual information about the book of mormon, read a book by Grant Palmer, An Insider's View of Mormon Origins. He was a Mormon teacher and has left the church and shares some authentic, factual mormon history in his book --not the changed version that the mormon church puts out.
flameburns623 Posted February 29, 2016 Posted February 29, 2016 I just posted mine. Five star. For the heck of it. 1
JLHPROF Posted February 29, 2016 Posted February 29, 2016 If they actually read the book they have every right to post a review of the book (positive or negative about it). That's what the site is for. Nothing "unethical" or dishonest about it. 3
USU78 Posted March 1, 2016 Posted March 1, 2016 In order to have your review mean anything, you have to be a verified purchaser. Otherwise, Amazon just deletes your review.
Rain Posted March 1, 2016 Posted March 1, 2016 As long as the reviews are honest I am ok with it. I once looked at reviewing it at Goodreads. I couldn't honestly figure out how to review it. I am not one who gives lots of 5, or even 4, star reviews. While I am grateful for it, believe it to be true, read regularly from it and have a testimony of it, I just don't think of it as that good of a book. I don't think many people would actually feel it was a 5 star book if it wasn't for the great spiritual nature. It won't take long for people to quit reading and never feel the Spirit from it if they are led to believe it is a 5 star book in ways besides spiritual. So if I see someone 5 staring then I would hope that most of their reviews of everything else is 5 stars or I may think they are being dishonest or unthinking.
Scott Lloyd Posted March 1, 2016 Posted March 1, 2016 1 hour ago, USU78 said: In order to have your review mean anything, you have to be a verified purchaser. Otherwise, Amazon just deletes your review. A verified purchaser of what? The Book of Mormon or just any Amazon merchandise?
Scott Lloyd Posted March 1, 2016 Posted March 1, 2016 56 minutes ago, Rain said: As long as the reviews are honest I am ok with it. I once looked at reviewing it at Goodreads. I couldn't honestly figure out how to review it. I am not one who gives lots of 5, or even 4, star reviews. While I am grateful for it, believe it to be true, read regularly from it and have a testimony of it, I just don't think of it as that good of a book. I don't think many people would actually feel it was a 5 star book if it wasn't for the great spiritual nature. It won't take long for people to quit reading and never feel the Spirit from it if they are led to believe it is a 5 star book in ways besides spiritual. So if I see someone 5 staring then I would hope that most of their reviews of everything else is 5 stars or I may think they are being dishonest or unthinking. If people feel spiritually edified by it (and, best-case scenario, they do) isn't that reason enough to give a favorable review? What would be not honest about reviewing it favorably for that reason?
VideoGameJunkie Posted March 1, 2016 Posted March 1, 2016 The reviews I'm reading about the book are brutal.
Scott Lloyd Posted March 1, 2016 Posted March 1, 2016 13 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said: The reviews I'm reading about the book are brutal. Welcome to the world of online anti-Mormonism. Why would Amazon be off limits to it?
ALarson Posted March 1, 2016 Posted March 1, 2016 (edited) 40 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said: The reviews I'm reading about the book are brutal. Yes, I just went over and read some of them (lots of 1 star reviews just today). Most of what is labeled anti-Mormon on here, is not really anti (IMO)....but these reviews are truly anti and ugly. Are these reviews today just a result of the request from these ward leaders at BYU (that others then heard about)? If so, wow. , Edited March 1, 2016 by ALarson
USU78 Posted March 1, 2016 Posted March 1, 2016 2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: A verified purchaser of what? The Book of Mormon or just any Amazon merchandise? The bom from a specific seller
Tacenda Posted March 1, 2016 Posted March 1, 2016 Yeah, that student ward in Provo's leaders really didn't get much inspiration on this one. Unless they are going for the adage opposition in all things. As I looked in the past the BoM got 5 stars consistently but now with the publicity of this leaderships idea, there are first several 1 stars. I don't know how many pages people will read before getting an eyeful.
Rain Posted March 1, 2016 Posted March 1, 2016 3 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: If people feel spiritually edified by it (and, best-case scenario, they do) isn't that reason enough to give a favorable review? What would be not honest about reviewing it favorably for that reason? This is one of the reasons I felt I could not rate it. I just could not find a way to rate the 5 stars for it's spiritual guidance and lesser stars for the quality of the writing. There are some masterful written parts in it of course, but scripture just does not read like fiction, or non fiction or even a textbook really. It is just different enough that I could not see any way to rate it. And no, I don't feel being spiritually edified by it is enough. There was one passage in Eat, Pray, Love that spiritually edified me, but overall the book stunk. If I am writing a review then I want people to trust what I write. So I could review the Book of Mormon and give it a glowing review, but I cannot honestly rate it as a 5. I recognize lots of people don't feel the way I do about rating books and items so I have no problem with people rating the Book of Mormon as a 5. I just fear that a challenge like this will encourage people to run out and give it a 5 without thinking how they really feel.
Thinking Posted March 1, 2016 Posted March 1, 2016 7 hours ago, smac97 said: This seems like a contrived issue, and hardly one that is newsworthy. Why then did you start this thread?
rodheadlee Posted March 1, 2016 Posted March 1, 2016 Yeah like we are the first ones to stuff the ballot box .
Scott Lloyd Posted March 1, 2016 Posted March 1, 2016 12 hours ago, Rain said: This is one of the reasons I felt I could not rate it. I just could not find a way to rate the 5 stars for it's spiritual guidance and lesser stars for the quality of the writing. There are some masterful written parts in it of course, but scripture just does not read like fiction, or non fiction or even a textbook really. It is just different enough that I could not see any way to rate it. And no, I don't feel being spiritually edified by it is enough. There was one passage in Eat, Pray, Love that spiritually edified me, but overall the book stunk. If I am writing a review then I want people to trust what I write. So I could review the Book of Mormon and give it a glowing review, but I cannot honestly rate it as a 5. I recognize lots of people don't feel the way I do about rating books and items so I have no problem with people rating the Book of Mormon as a 5. I just fear that a challenge like this will encourage people to run out and give it a 5 without thinking how they really feel. I haven't checked, but my guess is that on sites such as Amazon, the Bible is widely rated with five stars. Those who appreciate the Book of Mormon have just as valid reason for rating it highly as Bible devotees have for rating the Bible highly. And in both instances, I take their honesty for granted.
Scott Lloyd Posted March 1, 2016 Posted March 1, 2016 20 hours ago, smac97 said: This seems like a contrived issue, and hardly one that is newsworthy. 12 hours ago, Thinking said: Why then did you start this thread? He was citing a published news media report and evaluating its validity as news. He does that quite a bit with matters pertaining to the Church. This is one reason why I find his threads and posts quite interesting and compelling. 1
Thinking Posted March 1, 2016 Posted March 1, 2016 37 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: He was citing a published news media report and evaluating its validity as news. He does that quite a bit with matters pertaining to the Church. This is one reason why I find his threads and posts quite interesting and compelling. So it is newsworthy?
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