stemelbow Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 Just now, The Nehor said: If this is actually happening shouldn't my home teaching list be getting shorter??? Only if you are taking advantage of this fine free service. you got the names and info on them, after all.
Calm Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 Iirc, there was the case of an attorney filing a suit against Utah on behalf of a gay couple whose name he had just pulled out of the paper and had never contacted. Anyone remember that? What is the process of confirming a lawyer actually represents someone?
The Nehor Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 8 minutes ago, stemelbow said: Only if you are taking advantage of this fine free service. you got the names and info on them, after all. I am pretty sure this is a shortcut to hell.
saemo Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 (edited) 14 minutes ago, The Nehor said: If this is actually happening shouldn't my home teaching list be getting shorter??? Dunno, statistically this is a lawyer serving US members. 14000 congregations in the US according to LDS.org, so 6500 people is less than .5 people per congregation. Maybe someone's list in your ward decreased by at least one. Edited February 24, 2016 by saemo
Calm Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 They state the only info required is name as on church records, birthdate, address and email address. The person prints up the forms, signs and submits (to them, the church?). No suggestion of verification in any significant way. Hopefully the Church confirms it with a phone call or some other fashion but it is unfortunate that it makes more work for the Church imo. The lawyer should be doing it.
saemo Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 Just now, Calm said: They state the only info required is name as on church records, birthdate, address and email address. The person prints up the forms, signs and submits (to them, the church?). No suggestion of verification in any significant way. Hopefully the Church confirms it with a phone call or some other fashion but it is unfortunate that it makes more work for the Church imo. The lawyer should be doing it. No, it is the church's process, not the lawyer's. I've also seen on this forum where people have the opinion that apostates should resign, since our names hanging around are making more work for church members. Darned if we do, darned if we don't. 2
Jeanne Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, ALarson said: I've heard about these types of things happening too. I know of one case where the submitted resignation sat on the Bishop's desk for over a month and the member assumed it had been submitted and was waiting to hear it had been confirmed. I think things happen, and I really doubt any (or many?) Bishops or Stake Presidents would do this on purpose. Mistakes happen. Sometimes the wait is hard for people for one reason or another..but they really do understand that once the letter is in the Bishop's hand..they are out. I have a lot of friends and myself included, personally deliver a letter.to the bishop.then mailed it out myself with extra postage to acknowledge the resignation was received in SLC. Nowadays, it is quite done easily..on the internet. Edited February 24, 2016 by Jeanne
Buckeye Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 3 hours ago, smac97 said: Well, percentage or otherwise, 6,500 seems to qualify as a "mass resignation." That said, it's hard to say what the actual number is. Mr. Naugle's website has no mechanism for checking on whether people using his website are members of the Church. As a sidenote, Mr. Naugle's website generates a form for the individual to sign and send back to him. The form includes an "Authorization as Agent" document which establishes an attorney-client relationship between the individual and Mr. Naugle, and states that "any contact, whether verbal, written, electronic, or via representatives of the Church must be directed to Mark A. Naugle, Attorney at Law." There's a wee little problem with this. It's called "Unauthorized Practice of Law." The form indicates that Mr. Naugle is licensed in Utah, Washington State and California. So if he is actively licensed in those three states, he can certainly proceed to create attorney-client relationships with clients who are residents of those three states, and those three states only. I don't think Mr. Naugle can legally create attorney-client relationships with residents of any other state (or any other country, even though his website is designed to allow foreign nationals to sign up with him as well). I hope Mr. Naugle has taken these considerations into account. At first glance, however, it appears he has not. If that is the case, and if he is now publicly bragging about having represented 6,500 people, and if some of those 6,500 people are not residents of states in which he is licensed to practice law, he may be soliciting hundreds (thousands?) of not-in-Utah-or-Washington-State-or-California clients and establishing attorney-client relationships with them when he is not authorized by law to do so. Thanks, -Smac Can you provide some support for the premise that a client must reside the same state as her counsel for the attorney-client privilege to apply?
mfbukowski Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, ALarson said: I still don't see how the church would allow "fake resignations" to be successfully completed. . It's difficult but is done by proxy. The Presiding Bishop (since no other bishop has jurisdiction over non-existing people) has to first baptize an individual as a proxy for the fake name and create a record, hold a bishop's court, and then delete the record. No stakes are involved unless the non-existent person was also ordained to the Melchizadek priesthood, and then the court has to be held on the stake level It ties up an enormous amount of time and effort needlessly. It is even more complex for real people who were never members, but wanted to resign anyway, but that is a secret process I cannot reveal at this time. Edited February 24, 2016 by mfbukowski 4
strappinglad Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 Given how hard it is to track some members down , what would it take to verify that person X actually wants to resign? A phone call might work but that could be circumvented. To me it should need a face to face meeting to double check who is who. This is probably what some people want to avoid, the possible confrontation. Maybe I should start a business to contact members to verify their intent.
Johnnie Cake Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, Gray said: 6500 is a lot in absolute numbers, but not much as a percentage of the whole. The real number to keep track of is probably members per ward. Nothing to see here folks move along....these were all those who wanted to sin, the offended, the lazy, gays, queers, non-tithe payers, non-temple attending shellac's, the so called intellectuals and feminists... We really didn't lose anything of value...in fact we're better off without them to spew their micro minded lies and distortions of the truth...I say they've weighed us down and distorted our home teaching numbers for far too long. I say don't let the door hit your arse on the way out...good riddance Edited February 24, 2016 by Johnnie Cake 1
Johnnie Cake Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 3 hours ago, smac97 said: I suspect Mr. Naugle is simply counting the number of submissions he has received. That is the only number to which he has access. I'm not sure what the Church would do regarding the "Authorization Form" appended to the resignation letter which purportedly requires the Church to communicate through him rather than directly with his "clients." Thanks, -Smac I agree Smac97...we are talking about a lawyer after all...lying scumbags...he has every reason to lie and distort the truth...in fact he probably didn't help anyone resign...its all made up
Storm Rider Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 It is nice they can get together as a group and gain comfort in mass resignations if that is what works for them. Seeds fall on rocky soil, among the thorns, and seldom run with a deep root system. I have never read about a nirvana time period in modern history where all was well in Zion. If they need the attention I hope they got what they were looking for. God bless them in their lives and may they be happy. 2
Johnnie Cake Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 2 hours ago, saemo said: I have several times and our social functions now include a martini, named after me. (J/k....I've never resigned. In your opinion, should I contact this website?) Actually a Saemo Cocktail is one of my favorite drinks...2 green olives please, shaken not stirred...
Guest Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 Wait; why would anyone need legal representation to resign from the Church? BTW, I am not asking in jest.
Thinking Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: Do you really think he puts that much effort into it? I'm not going to judge how much effort he puts into the verification process. One thing is for sure, the LDS Church does not have resignation forms outside the bishop's office next to the tithing envelopes. There may be a process that is preferred by the Church for resignation, but it's not advertised. Sometimes people need a little direction.
Buckeye Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 4 minutes ago, Pa Pa said: Wait; why would anyone need legal representation to resign from the Church? BTW, I am not asking in jest. You don't, obviously. But an attorney can help people who want to avoid confrontation because the church can only make contact through the attorney. So so bishops, RS presidents, etc. showing up on your door to make sure you haven't changed your mind. Also, it's free and saves hassle of doing research to figure out how to resign and filling out the paperwork. And according to this guy, it's about 3 times quicker than doing it yourself.
Thinking Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 I just sent the following message to whoever reads the messages from the contact page. "How do you verify the the identity of the person who is requesting resignation?" I'll let you know if I get a response. 1
Buckeye Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 (edited) I'm not sure if someone else has noted this, but I do wonder what this attorney does to verify that the submission is authentic. According to the website, all that is required is full name, birth date, address, and an email address for contact purposes. A membership number is also helpful but not required. So pretty much anyone who knows my birthday (family, facebook friends) and who knows my address (easily found online) and can set up a dummy email address can submit a resignation for me. What happens when a rough ward clerk decides it would be funny to resign the whole ward? Clerks have easy access to all that information. Edited February 24, 2016 by Buckeye
Jeanne Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 29 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: Nothing to see here folks move along....these were all those who wanted to sin, the offended, the lazy, gays, queers, non-tithe payers, non-temple attending shellac's, the so called intellectuals and feminists... We really didn't lose anything of value...in fact we're better off without them to spew their micro minded lies and distortions of the truth...I say they've weighed us down and distorted our home teaching numbers for far too long. I say don't let the door hit your arse on the way out...good riddance
Calm Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 33 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: Nothing to see here folks move along....these were all those who wanted to sin, the offended, the lazy, gays, queers, non-tithe payers, non-temple attending shellac's, the so called intellectuals and feminists... We really didn't lose anything of value...in fact we're better off without them to spew their micro minded lies and distortions of the truth...I say they've weighed us down and distorted our home teaching numbers for far too long. I say don't let the door hit your arse on the way out...good riddance Gray is not the type of poster who has that attitude. He comes across as a much broader umbrella type including his own personal beliefs. You shouldn't make assumptions about why a poster posts without the info there. 1
Johnnie Cake Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, The Nehor said: He is almost certainly doing this for publicity and to get real clients. Smart business model. As we all know people leave the Church because they want to sin and many sins are also illegal. I agree with Nehor...this is a publicity grab...he's media whore...all he wants is glory...Scott Lloyd don't write a story about this in the DesNews Edited February 24, 2016 by Johnnie Cake
Johnnie Cake Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: Like Calm, I've heard of people showing up at "mass resignation" events to boost the appearance of large numbers when they have already resigned. That's what I mean by serial resignations. Exactly...its all a show...we can't trust these kinds of people...they're apostates and yeah can't trust an apostate
Scott Lloyd Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 14 minutes ago, Buckeye said: I'm not sure if someone else has noted this, but I do wonder what this attorney does to verify that the submission is authentic. According to the website, all that is required is full name, birth date, address, and an email address for contact purposes. A membership number is also helpful but not required. So pretty much anyone who knows my birthday (family, facebook friends) and who knows my address (easily found online) and can set up a dummy email address can submit a resignation for me. What happens when a rough ward clerk decides it would be funny to resign the whole ward? Clerks have easy access to all that information. Do you mean a rogue ward clerk? When I was an assistant ward clerk, I was a bit rough around the edges, primarily because they didn't leave me in office long enough to learn the ropes. I think they got tired of waiting.
Johnnie Cake Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Nehor said: If this is actually happening shouldn't my home teaching list be getting shorter??? Great minds think alike...this was exactly my thought and post I made before reading your post...plus all these so called members have been distorting our HT numbers...making it harder to get it done each month...now HT will be a breese...no more need to distort the numbers Edited February 24, 2016 by Johnnie Cake
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