carbon dioxide Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 32 minutes ago, savedwheat said: Since God is omnipotent there cannot be something beside God before time and space for that would limit God. What passage in the Bible says that if something existed besides God before time and space that would limit God? Also where does it say that God created time and space?
Calm Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 1 hour ago, RevTestament said: And you know this because He told you? If He knows what everyone is going to do with their whole life, why go through the motions? Just get it over with already, and skip the earth stage. This is being talked about on another thread, is it not? Because one has to live the life in order for the judgment to be valid (both in terms of justice and what we become), we are changed by the process of life into the person that is judged. If we were given blessings based on what we will do in the future, then we wouldn't be ready for those blessings anymore than a child would be ready for a car given to him for his fourth birthday even though his parent knew that when he was 16 he would be able to make great use of it. And getting some blessing early might just prevent the growth needed to use the blessing wisely, just as being given a million dollars when one became an adult might prevent someone from learning how to make a million dollars through hard work, creativity, etc.
Guest Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 On January 24, 2016 at 7:51 PM, savedwheat said: Isaiah 46:9 "for I am God, and there is none else; I am God and there is none like me." Mark 12:32 "for there is one God; and there is none other but he." Nothing beside God. Just God before time and space. We have no other God's. We too believe that Father, Son and Holy Ghost. We pray unto the Father, in the name of Christ while guided by the Holy Spirit. When we pray as Jesus Christ taught in the sermon on the mount...then we honor God. When we do else wise, God the Father is not pleased. It is our understanding of God that he allows us to prosper. You are hitting so hard, my guess is that you teach or if a student you have become charged, thus the many Threads. If you want to know truly what we believe...then you can continue on with the correct data...visit at Church of ours, or corisponded with us here. PM, any of us and we will extend the hand of fellowship. Proceed slowly and let us all find common ground. Bill Lee, in Christ Jesus
RevTestament Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) 7 hours ago, Calm said: This is being talked about on another thread, is it not? Apparently, but I was responding to the OPoster. While what you say makes sense, and is undoubtedly true, I believe our free agency makes it impossible for even an omnipotent being to know everything in advance. I also believe it is possible to fall. Satan fell, and others have followed him despite the mighty saving influence of God exactly because they have free will. I don't believe God knows before He created us whether at any particular second we are going to wag our finger right or left. He knows before we do it, because He knows our thoughts. His servants perform His will on the earth, and thereby history follows a predetermined course, but that does not mean the Father controls our each and every action or thought. Edited January 26, 2016 by RevTestament
savedwheat Posted January 27, 2016 Author Posted January 27, 2016 On 1/26/2016 at 0:25 AM, Pa Pa said: We have no other God's. We too believe that Father, Son and Holy Ghost. We pray unto the Father, in the name of Christ while guided by the Holy Spirit. When we pray as Jesus Christ taught in the sermon on the mount...then we honor God. When we do else wise, God the Father is not pleased. It is our understanding of God that he allows us to prosper. You are hitting so hard, my guess is that you teach or if a student you have become charged, thus the many Threads. If you want to know truly what we believe...then you can continue on with the correct data...visit at Church of ours, or corisponded with us here. PM, any of us and we will extend the hand of fellowship. Proceed slowly and let us all find common ground. Bill Lee, in Christ Jesus The Father you believe is not the same Father, because the Father Christians believe is the 1st Person of the Trinity. You pray to a God who is not alone from everlasting, so he's a lesser being, through another being (not sure how you would do that) by another being (still not sure how you do that). You can try to keep the conduct of Matt. 5-7 on the sermon on the mount but you won't have the power to do so because you don't have the Holy Spirit in you. Another human being can't indwell another person. Share with me why you think the church disappeared for 18 centuries and was anyone then saved in that time? What's wrong with the Bible that something so vital has been lost for 18 centuries? Be clear about this.
savedwheat Posted January 27, 2016 Author Posted January 27, 2016 On 1/26/2016 at 11:11 PM, carbon dioxide said: What passage in the Bible says that if something existed besides God before time and space that would limit God? Also where does it say that God created time and space? The Bible approaches your question by stating that God is the greatest by being alone from everlasting. So nothing beside Him would not be the greatest. The Bible says Jesus created all things: time and space. You can see I hope now what a devilish god you believe in.
busybee Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, savedwheat said: The Bible approaches your question by stating that God is the greatest by being alone from everlasting. So nothing beside Him would not be the greatest. The Bible says Jesus created all things: time and space. You can see I hope now what a devilish god you believe in. You really need to read the book 'How to Win Friends and Influence People' by Dale Carnegie. I'm pretty sure you won't find a chapter 'Insult people and criticize their belief system' as part of the advice therein. Your arrogance is exceeded only by your lack of comprehension regarding the nature of God and the Godhead. Reminder to self: STOPFEEDINGTHETROLLSTOPFEEDINGTHETROLL!!!!! Edited January 27, 2016 by busybee
Anakin7 Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) Olam - eternal = indefinant period of time. Did Jesus create The Father,Himself and The Holy Ghost/Spirit ?. You are rebelling against scripture with your communication with us please read Ephesians 4:29. As a side note you really need to work on your interpersonal relationship people skill if you want be accepted, said by the way out of True Love. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited January 27, 2016 by Anakin7
stemelbow Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 6 hours ago, savedwheat said: The Bible approaches your question by stating that God is the greatest by being alone from everlasting. So nothing beside Him would not be the greatest. The Bible says Jesus created all things: time and space. You can see I hope now what a devilish god you believe in. I think it best if you quote the Bible, support your statements, rather than telling us your dogma is directly derived from the Bible. I think it'd help conversation, at least.
Zakuska Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 6 hours ago, savedwheat said: Share with me why you think the church disappeared for 18 centuries and was anyone then saved in that time? What's wrong with the Bible that something so vital has been lost for 18 centuries? Be clear about this. The Church didn't disappear for 1800 years. It died and went to heaven when the last Apostle died. Only to be resurrected and brought back to the earth by Holy Angels just like God said it would be. Ask yourself this question... if the earth had the gospel and the power of the priesthood... why does an angel have to come back from heaven with it to preach if men already had it in the Bible? Rev 14 6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlastinggospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship himthat made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
Anakin7 Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 Zakuska - Remember John The Apostle never died. But you are correct. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 1
Guest Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 8 hours ago, savedwheat said: The Father you believe is not the same Father, because the Father Christians believe is the 1st Person of the Trinity. You pray to a God who is not alone from everlasting, so he's a lesser being, through another being (not sure how you would do that) by another being (still not sure how you do that). You can try to keep the conduct of Matt. 5-7 on the sermon on the mount but you won't have the power to do so because you don't have the Holy Spirit in you. Another human being can't indwell another person. Share with me why you think the church disappeared for 18 centuries and was anyone then saved in that time? What's wrong with the Bible that something so vital has been lost for 18 centuries? Be clear about this. We pray to the Father in the name of Christ...from what source do you get such ideas. What you call Trinity, we call Godhead. Also how do you know Mormons do not have the Holy Spirit, by what authority do you judge us?
JLHPROF Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 8 hours ago, savedwheat said: The Bible approaches your question by stating that God is the greatest by being alone from everlasting. Except it doesn't. You have never shown a scripture stating that. Only a word twisting interpretation. Quote The Bible says Jesus created all things: time and space. There is no mention of time being created in the Bible. There is a mention of earthly time being created (day and night) but that was performed at a specific point in time, meaning there was a before this was created and an after this was created. 1
Maidservant Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 On 1/24/2016 at 10:01 PM, savedwheat said: Trinity our likeness. I have a spirit, soul and body. My spirit is like the Holy Spirit. My soul is like the Father, and my body was like Jesus in that Jesus was in the likeness of flesh and atonement came from shedding His precious blood, substitution. Genesis absolutely does not describe this. Genesis describes the image of God as MALE AND FEMALE. 2
savedwheat Posted January 27, 2016 Author Posted January 27, 2016 6 hours ago, Pa Pa said: We pray to the Father in the name of Christ...from what source do you get such ideas. What you call Trinity, we call Godhead. Also how do you know Mormons do not have the Holy Spirit, by what authority do you judge us? Mormons don't have the Holy Spirit because they are not born-again OSAS. Mormons teach salvation by works. The reason you are not born-again is because you refuse to accept who Jesus truly is for eternity so for eternity you will be in Hell. Since the Bible says God was alone from everlasting, none beside Him, no gods beside, or after Him, and Jesus created all things, then you did not always exist. Jesus isn't a spirit brother, but the 2nd Person of the Trinity who has authority to atone for sins not your lesser being Jesus.
Calm Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 15 hours ago, savedwheat said: Share with me why you think the church disappeared for 18 centuries and was anyone then saved in that time? Can you please share with us who were some of the Apostles during the last 2000 years since for the churches to exist, there needs be Apostles, correct?
JLHPROF Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 5 minutes ago, savedwheat said: Mormons don't have the Holy Spirit because they are not born-again OSAS. Mormons teach salvation by works. The reason you are not born-again is because you refuse to accept who Jesus truly is for eternity so for eternity you will be in Hell. Since the Bible says God was alone from everlasting, none beside Him, no gods beside, or after Him, and Jesus created all things, then you did not always exist. Jesus isn't a spirit brother, but the 2nd Person of the Trinity who has authority to atone for sins not your lesser being Jesus. Again, just because you say it doesn't make it true. You need to start backing up your claims with actual scripture that says exactly what you claim. 1. Acts 8:17 says it requires the laying on of hands to receive the Holy Ghost/Spirit you refer to. Something given by those with authority, not taken upon oneself. 2. Christ taught salvation by works, not just the Mormons. Only those that love him are saved and only those that keep his commandments love him. 3. The Bible does NOT say God was alone from everlasting. I still would not choose to worship a God or Christ such as you describe.
Jim Stiles Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 18 hours ago, JLHPROF said: Except it doesn't. You have never shown a scripture stating that. Only a word twisting interpretation. There is no mention of time being created in the Bible. There is a mention of earthly time being created (day and night) but that was performed at a specific point in time, meaning there was a before this was created and an after this was created. Quote John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. All things were created by God. Space and time are things. Space and time are not transcendent nor are they a part of God. Space and time were created. We should not worship space and time.
Jim Stiles Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 11 hours ago, JLHPROF said: Again, just because you say it doesn't make it true. You need to start backing up your claims with actual scripture that says exactly what you claim. 1. Acts 8:17 says it requires the laying on of hands to receive the Holy Ghost/Spirit you refer to. Something given by those with authority, not taken upon oneself. 2. Christ taught salvation by works, not just the Mormons. Only those that love him are saved and only those that keep his commandments love him. 3. The Bible does NOT say God was alone from everlasting. I still would not choose to worship a God or Christ such as you describe. Do you follow all of his commandments? Are you without sin? Quote 1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
JLHPROF Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 2 hours ago, Jim Stiles said: All things were created by God. Space and time are things. Space and time are not transcendent nor are they a part of God. Space and time were created. We should not worship space and time. Space (location, not outer space) and time are not "things". I certainly don't worship them. If we can say God created everything (which is correct) there was a before he did it and an after - therefore time. And God created nothing out of nothing. God formed things.
JLHPROF Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 2 hours ago, Jim Stiles said: Do you follow all of his commandments? Are you without sin? Nobody does. That's why there's an atonement to make up for our inability. Christ still requires us to give our best - scripture is full of instruction to do so.
savedwheat Posted January 28, 2016 Author Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) 22 hours ago, JLHPROF said: Again, just because you say it doesn't make it true. You need to start backing up your claims with actual scripture that says exactly what you claim. 1. Acts 8:17 says it requires the laying on of hands to receive the Holy Ghost/Spirit you refer to. Something given by those with authority, not taken upon oneself. 2. Christ taught salvation by works, not just the Mormons. Only those that love him are saved and only those that keep his commandments love him. 3. The Bible does NOT say God was alone from everlasting. I still would not choose to worship a God or Christ such as you describe. You misread Acts 8. It says "14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that the people of Samaria had accepted God’s message, they sent Peter and John there. 15 As soon as they arrived, they prayed for these new believers to receive the Holy Spirit. 16 The Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them, for they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John laid their hands upon these believers, and they received the Holy Spirit." They already had accepted God's message so they were saved, born-again. So they already had the Holy Spirit indwelling them. What they didn't have was the sense of that Holy Spirit in them nor the infilling of the Holy Spirit. Once accepted by brothers and sisters in Christ then they could sense the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit within and the Holy Spirit upon them are two different operations. When one is baptized one will have a deeper sense of being a sojourner. Jesus never taught salvation by works to get saved. Nobody is saved by works lest anyone should boast. So you sin in your boast. Better to boast in Christ what He said. So a Christian once saved can't lose salvation. Works then become unto rewards not to keep saved. Yes the Bible says God was alone from everlasting even using the words alone and from everlasting. It also says Jesus created all things so that is alone from everlasting. And it say none beside God, no gods, nothing. So that is alone from everlasting. So you can see you worship a false Christ and are going to Hell. You wont atonement from a lesser Jesus that you degrade down to your level so you remain an unregenerate. Only accept atonement from the uncreated Creator. Praise God! Edited January 28, 2016 by savedwheat
JLHPROF Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 21 minutes ago, savedwheat said: You misread Acts 8. It says "14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that the people of Samaria had accepted God’s message, they sent Peter and John there. 15 As soon as they arrived, they prayed for these new believers to receive the Holy Spirit. 16 The Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them, for they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John laid their hands upon these believers, and they received the Holy Spirit." They already had accepted God's message so they were saved, born-again. So they already had the Holy Spirit indwelling them. What they didn't have was the sense of that Holy Spirit in them nor the infilling of the Holy Spirit. Once accepted by brothers and sisters in Christ then they could sense the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit within and the Holy Spirit upon them are two different operations. When one is baptized one will have a deeper sense of being a sojourner. Jesus never taught salvation by works to get saved. Nobody is saved by works lest anyone should boast. So you sin in your boast. Better to boast in Christ what He said. So a Christian once saved can't lose salvation. Works then become unto rewards not to keep saved. Yes the Bible says God was alone from everlasting even using the words alone and from everlasting. It also says Jesus created all things so that is alone from everlasting. And it say none beside God, no gods, nothing. So that is alone from everlasting. So you can see you worship a false Christ and are going to Hell. You wont atonement from a lesser Jesus that you degrade down to your level so you remain an unregenerate. Only accept atonement from the uncreated Creator. Praise God! So apparently you've overcome your challenges where you wrote to me that "However many times you think I posted, I am telling you the truth, I can't post a new thread or respond to any thread. I can't pm you either." Either way, this wresting of scripture is precisely the issue I have with traditional Christianity. Joseph Smith had it right when he said: What is the rule of interpretation? Just no interpretation at all. Understand it precisely as it reads. When Joseph Smith was asked "Do you believe the Bible?" he replied "If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do." And this twisting turning of scripture is exactly his point. "Peter and John laid their hands upon these believers, and they received the Holy Spirit." You will insist on taking a scripture like this and contorting it into a teaching NOT in the text. Go for it, but you are unable to back up your ideas from scripture. And Christ taught that only those who loved him and kept his commandments would be saved. That IS in the Bible.
Stormin' Mormon Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 "John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." I always found this a curious wording. It doesn't say "without him was not anything made," which is what Savedwheat is saying it says. It says "without him was not anything made that was made." There is a strong implication here that there are some things that were not created, otherwise there would be no qualifier. Essentially, it says, "if there's something that was created, it was created by Christ" leaving wide open the possibility that there are things that are were never created (time, space, intelligence?) and therefore Christ would have no role in bringing about. 4
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