Vance Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 13 hours ago, Jim Stiles said: The above scriptural quote mentions hell as the destination of the wicked. It makes no mention of the telestial kingdom. Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Apparently, hell isn't the final destination either. Also, what part of Quote Matthew 23:23-36 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Who was it, exactly, that Jesus was referring too?
Jim Stiles Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 20 minutes ago, busybee said: Well, I will willingly take chastisement from one of the Lord's anointed servants or from the Lord Himself. But I don't have to entertain you and others coming here and condemning me and my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, to hell. It is not your place or calling to do so. If you see a person drowning, does one need to be a lifeguard to thrown them a floatation device? Even if the person claims to not be drowning?
Vance Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 13 hours ago, Jim Stiles said: Muslim and Jews do not consider Trinitarian Christianity to be monotheistic. Everyone else does though. No, they don't. I am neither a muslim or a jew and I don't consider TRInitarian Christianity to be MONOtheistic! Here is another christian that doesn't buy it. http://www.stevenroyedwards.com/monotheistic.html 2
Vance Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
Jim Stiles Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 16 minutes ago, Vance said: Still looking for that fable "cogent argument". Hey, we all are just ignert mormonz so, you alls are just goin to have ta spoon fedz it to uznins. Read the Confession, Larger Catechism, and Smaller Catechism. Here are the direct links: Confession: http://opc.org/wcf.html Confession with Scriptural Proofs: http://opc.org/documents/CFLayout.pdf Larger Catechism: http://opc.org/lc.html Part 1 of Larger Catechism with Scriptural Proofs: http://opc.org/documents/LCLayout1.pdf Part 2 of Larger Catechism with Scriptural Proofs: http://opc.org/documents/LCLayout2.pdf Smaller Catechism: http://opc.org/sc.html Smaller Catechism with Scriptural Proofs: http://opc.org/documents/SCLayout.pdf
busybee Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 1 minute ago, Jim Stiles said: If you see a person drowning, does one need to be a lifeguard to thrown them a floatation device? Even if the person claims to not be drowning? Surely the person who you perceive to be drowning is perfectly able to tell himself whether he is drowning or not. It is most unlikely that someone will claim not to be drowning when they are. You can throw the safety device if you so wish, but you wouldn't bludgeon them with it. (if you think LDS are lost, your first point of action shouldn't be to tell them they are damned.) Here's example for you: I am a nurse by profession. One night a very inebriated man came in to my emergency room to tell me he had a friend in the car who had injured his leg. I went out to see his friend who, on examination, had a very severe fracture of his ankle. Patently obvious. No x-Ray needed. No doubt about his diagnosis. However, this man, also very inebriated, refused to get out of the car. Claimed his foot was fine and he needed no treatment. What do you suggest I do? Drag him out of the car? Force treatment on him? Because I know without a shadow of a doubt that he needs treatment. I'll tell you what I did do. I sent them all on their merry way. If someone doesn't feel they need your help and is happy with their current situation, then move along. That man came back when his self-administered anaesthesia had worn off and pleaded to be helped. If I realise I'm drowning, you'll be the first person I call.
Jim Stiles Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 6 minutes ago, Vance said: No, they don't. I am neither a muslim or a jew and I don't consider TRInitarian Christianity to be MONOtheistic! Here is another christian that doesn't buy it. http://www.stevenroyedwards.com/monotheistic.html Sorry, he is not a Christian: http://www.stevenroyedwards.com/religion.html
Damien the Leper Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 32 minutes ago, Vance said: Oh, so the apostle Paul wasn't an apostle. And the apostle Barnabas wasn't an apostle. (As in Acts 14:14). So, in Rom 1:1 and 11:13, Paul lied? Vance, are you seeing the same issues with consistency that I am with Mr. Stiles?
Vance Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 17 minutes ago, Jim Stiles said: If you see a person drowning, does one need to be a lifeguard to thrown them a floatation device? Even if the person claims to not be drowning? If you delude your self into believing that a person is drowning, when, in reality they are standing upon higher ground than your own, how do you think they should respond to you? Should they thank you for the rocks that you are throwing. Do you not know that the rocks that you are throwing are not flotation devices? 2
Jim Stiles Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 20 minutes ago, Vance said: Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Apparently, hell isn't the final destination either. Also, what part of Who was it, exactly, that Jesus was referring too? What Jesus called gehenna, which is translated as hell in the gospels, clearly means the Lake of Fire referred to by John in Revelation.
Vance Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 2 minutes ago, Jim Stiles said: Sorry, he is not a Christian: http://www.stevenroyedwards.com/religion.html MISSING the point. Neither is he a jew or a muslim.
busybee Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jim Stiles said: Read Hebrews 1 again. He speaks to us through his Son. No. Answer my question. What about this scripture in Amos 3:7 7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. Please explain what is meant when it says He will do nothing without revealing it to His servants, the prophets. You can't just ignore the scripture I have asked you about and tell me to read something else. Edited January 31, 2016 by busybee
Vance Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 6 minutes ago, Jim Stiles said: Read the Confession, Larger Catechism, and Smaller Catechism. Here are the direct links: Confession: http://opc.org/wcf.html Confession with Scriptural Proofs: http://opc.org/documents/CFLayout.pdf Larger Catechism: http://opc.org/lc.html Part 1 of Larger Catechism with Scriptural Proofs: http://opc.org/documents/LCLayout1.pdf Part 2 of Larger Catechism with Scriptural Proofs: http://opc.org/documents/LCLayout2.pdf Smaller Catechism: http://opc.org/sc.html Smaller Catechism with Scriptural Proofs: http://opc.org/documents/SCLayout.pdf I would like to see YOU make this fabled "cogent argument". Posting a bunch of links IS NOT A COGENT ARGUMENT! 3
Vance Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 Can YOU explain how the TRI God is MONO? In your own words? If YOU can't do it, stop wasting our time.
Damien the Leper Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 6 minutes ago, Jim Stiles said: Read the Confession, Larger Catechism, and Smaller Catechism. Here are the direct links: Confession: http://opc.org/wcf.html Confession with Scriptural Proofs: http://opc.org/documents/CFLayout.pdf Larger Catechism: http://opc.org/lc.html Part 1 of Larger Catechism with Scriptural Proofs: http://opc.org/documents/LCLayout1.pdf Part 2 of Larger Catechism with Scriptural Proofs: http://opc.org/documents/LCLayout2.pdf Smaller Catechism: http://opc.org/sc.html Smaller Catechism with Scriptural Proofs: http://opc.org/documents/SCLayout.pdf Westminster Reformed theology is a bastardization of traditional Calvin theology. It toes the line between heterodoxy and heresy. Evangelical Calvinism, such as T.F. Torrance and Karl Barth, is a much better version of Reformed theology.
Jim Stiles Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 49 minutes ago, Vance said: I see the part about "triune mystery-nature of God" and "trinity", but then again, those, BY DEFINITION are NOT monotheism. So, it is a "mystery" and it is "tri" meaning THREE not "mono" meaning one. Now if you want to FALSELY call it monotheism, you can. It just doesn't mean anything to do so. Tri - means three Persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit. Une - means one Essence. Quote Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
Jim Stiles Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 5 minutes ago, Vance said: Can YOU explain how the TRI God is MONO? In your own words? If YOU can't do it, stop wasting our time. I did.
Vance Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 2 minutes ago, Jim Stiles said: Tri - means three Persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit. Une - means one Essence. And what, exactly does "essence" mean in the Biblical sense? (Clue:It isn't found in the Bible) I do know that in French it mean GASOLINE. Is that the meaning you are wanting to use? 1
Jim Stiles Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 7 minutes ago, Vance said: I would like to see YOU make this fabled "cogent argument". Posting a bunch of links IS NOT A COGENT ARGUMENT! I have been doing so. You have not been reading.
Vance Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 Dan 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. Who is this "God of gods"? And who are these "gods"? Are they real? Are they true? Are they false?
Damien the Leper Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 8 minutes ago, Vance said: Can YOU explain how the TRI God is MONO? In your own words? If YOU can't do it, stop wasting our time. It is a mystery proclaimed in the confession of the Athanasian Creed. The hypostatic union or homoousio relationship cannot actually be explained because it doesn't make sense.
Vance Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 So, we have, 30 I and my Father are one. And, 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. Is that one in "essence" as well? How about this, 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. 8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. So, are Paul and Apollos one in "essence" as well?
Vance Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 https://translate.google.com/?sl=fr#fr/en/essence
Jim Stiles Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 10 minutes ago, busybee said: No. Answer my question. What about this scripture in Amos 3:7 7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. Please explain what it when it says He will do nothing without revealing it to His servants, the prophets. You can't just ignore the scripture I have asked you about and tell me to read something else. Amos 3:7 was applicable to the age in which it was written: the Old Testament period. During the Old Testament period, God spoke through his prophets. Now, the New Testament period, God spoke through his Son. Hebrews 1 again. Quote Galatians 1:7-9 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. What the LDS Church calls the Restored Gospel is really just another gospel, which is different from the gospel of Christ.
Jim Stiles Posted January 31, 2016 Posted January 31, 2016 21 minutes ago, Vance said: If you delude your self into believing that a person is drowning, when, in reality they are standing upon higher ground than your own, how do you think they should respond to you? Should they thank you for the rocks that you are throwing. Do you not know that the rocks that you are throwing are not flotation devices? Joseph Smith Jr. is an anvil that the drowning members of the LDS church grasp to ensure that they go to the same place as he did.
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