halconero Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 13 minutes ago, savedwheat said: The points of Calvinism were already taught by Augustine. That's calling what Jesus taught Paulianism then. Still anachronistic.
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 Just because Calvin had his name behind what Augustine's writings already taught doesn't change anything.
halconero Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 So then why does it matter if Jesus says something before Peter teaches the same thing (which isn't what the Book of Mormon says...but whatever...we'll go along with your argument in the other thread).
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 It wasn't a matter of teaching the same thing but literally quoting exactly what Peter quoted quoting Moses when Peter wasn't even born yet.
halconero Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 You took one step forward and then...well you didn't step back, you buried your head in the sand with the bloody Peter being born thing. Normally I wouldn't want to derail a thread, but since these are all yours and they're all over the bloody map I'll just say this clearly: The quote you're freaking out about as being anachronistic (a legitimate issue to be discussed), is given after Peter's birth in the BofM narrative.
Jude2 Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 I don’t know that you are actually interested in hearing the other side of the argument but here it goes; When Yahweh says in Isa 46 "To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?….Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,.." He was talking about phony gods like Babylonian god Bel, he even mentions Bel at the first of the chapter. He was not saying there is no Elohim. I’m going to go to Isa 43 “ Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour…. I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins. Put me in remembrance: let us plead together: declare thou, that thou mayest be justified.” If Yahweh who is speaking is the only God and there is non else then to whom is he pleading? In Mal 1 Yahweh is taking the priest to task because they have brought polluted bread to his alter he says; 9 And now, I pray you, beseech God/El that he will be gracious unto us: this hath been by your means: will he regard your persons? saith the Lord of hosts. Yahweh was the mediator between the Jews and El, they were asking him to plead to El in their behave and Yahweh was refusing to do so. Now I want to turn to Isa 45 “I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else…. I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded….” But then he stops short of taking all the glory to himself and he says; “For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God/'elohiym himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else.” The New Testament teaches us that God the Father made the earth through Jesus so Jesus has to be Yahweh. “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds” Heb 1 Nathanael understands this when he says “Rabbi, thou art the Son of God/El; thou art the King of Israel/Yahweh.
Zakuska Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 4 hours ago, savedwheat said: Since the Bible teaches OSAS Arminian and Augustine is a Calvinist, Augustine is going to Hell. OSAS Arminian is shown in the word of God. God gives us all sufficient grace to have the free choice to be kept. If this were true then every seed the sower sowed would germinate and thorns and briars would not be able to choke them out. It wouldn't matter what type of soil the seed fell upon. 1
busybee Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 5 hours ago, savedwheat said: Since the Bible teaches OSAS Arminian and Augustine is a Calvinist, Augustine is going to Hell. OSAS Arminian is shown in the word of God. God gives us all sufficient grace to have the free choice to be kept. Oh Lord it's hard to be humble When you're saved, and always will be I can't wait to get into heaven And find you there before me. 1
Zakuska Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) For OSAS to be true. There would be no way or need for Paul to warn the Saints from being broken off the Israel (Olive) tree. Once Graphed in you would be set and need not worry what type of fruit you bore. OSAS as a doctrine fails on soooo many levels! Edited January 25, 2016 by Zakuska 4
Anakin7 Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) Beware of OSAS Kandorians and Sith Lords http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/esteachers.htm In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited January 25, 2016 by Anakin7
Anakin7 Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Something forsavedwheat to ponder - http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/destiny.htm In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
savedwheat Posted January 26, 2016 Author Posted January 26, 2016 12 hours ago, Anakin7 said: Beware of OSAS Kandorians and Sith Lords http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/esteachers.htm In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 John 10.28 says those who are born-again "they shall never perish" but you are saying they can? Is this one of the situations where in Mormonism the Bible is true only insofar as Mormons say it is true. How do that work? Can't any cult say that?
The Nehor Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 2 minutes ago, savedwheat said: John 10.28 says those who are born-again "they shall never perish" but you are saying they can? Is this one of the situations where in Mormonism the Bible is true only insofar as Mormons say it is true. How do that work? Can't any cult say that? Maybe, how is your little cult going?
savedwheat Posted January 26, 2016 Author Posted January 26, 2016 No maybe. It says what it clearly says.
The Nehor Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 1 minute ago, savedwheat said: No maybe. It says what it clearly says. You left out the verses before as to what you have to do to claim those promises......probably because they would destroy you. 2 minutes ago, savedwheat said: No maybe. It says what it clearly says. I am not convinced that you are a rational being. Please do something so I can believe.
Anakin7 Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) savedwheat read the context contained in the text to the site I posted. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited January 26, 2016 by Anakin7
Avatar4321 Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 Why do you need to be humble if you are saved and cannot lose your salvation?
savedwheat Posted January 26, 2016 Author Posted January 26, 2016 Once saved you want to overcome because if you do you will be rewarded with returning to reign over the nations.
Anakin7 Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) savedwheat but according to you you believe in predestination so to better state your last post - "Once predestined to be saved you are predestined to want to overcome because being predestined to be conditioned to be if you do you are predestined to be rewarded with being predestined to rein over the nations". I hope I got that correct. Is that your predestined what you meant ?. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited January 26, 2016 by Anakin7
Avatar4321 Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 59 minutes ago, savedwheat said: Once saved you want to overcome because if you do you will be rewarded with returning to reign over the nations. So recognizing that God wants us to become like Him is a sign of pride but a desire to rule nations isn't?
savedwheat Posted January 26, 2016 Author Posted January 26, 2016 God predestinates by foreknowing our free choice not by making irresistibly do things. 1
halconero Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 That's a position I would generally agree with. Some Latter-day Saint lean towards God knowing his creations so well that he understands what choices they'll make evening without knowing a certainty of their judgement, but I tend to agree with your view.
RevTestament Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 41 minutes ago, savedwheat said: God predestinates by foreknowing our free choice not by making irresistibly do things. And you know this because He told you? If He knows what everyone is going to do with their whole life, why go through the motions? Just get it over with already, and skip the earth stage.
savedwheat Posted January 26, 2016 Author Posted January 26, 2016 Since God is omnipotent there cannot be something beside God before time and space for that would limit God.
RevTestament Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 4 minutes ago, savedwheat said: Since God is omnipotent there cannot be something beside God before time and space for that would limit God. In other words this is your belief, and God did not tell you this. Since God is omnipotent, whey did He bother with creating a bunch of minions to push around - since "that would limit God?"
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