FairMormon Blog: Gospel Hobbies and the Danger of “All-Consuming Patriotism”

[Calm]

Since we are having the discussion about the Oregen refuge takeover, I thought this might contribute and help focus the conversation again on Church doctrine as opposed to arguments about what is or isn't appropriate for the government to do:

http://blog.fairmormon.org/2016/01/06/gospel-hobbies-and-the-danger-of-all-consuming-patriotism/

Quote

 

Recent developments in rural Oregon have prompted Church leaders to respond to the claims of some Latter-day Saints who have taken up arms to protest the actions of the United States federal government.

For over one hundred years, Church presidents and apostles have warned against “religious hobbies” or “gospel hobbies,” which President Joseph F. Smith described as “dangerous because they give undue prominence to certain [gospel] principles or ideas to the detriment and dwarfing of others just as important, just as binding, just as saving” as the doctrines an individual may personally favor (Gospel Doctrine, p. 143).....

 

 

[juliann]

Hmmm....I've never thought of the preppers worldview as coming under the umbrella of a gospel hobby (religious hobby is probably better since there isn't much gospel in what these guys are doing.) But they have taken a few elements and blown them up into a lifestyle. This is a strong example of the results of doing that.

[Calm]

I saw it when I was researching Julie Rowe...those who were into that kind of thing ate up alleged and actual prophets and others' visions like popcorn and basically turned what might have been a fascinating and even useful interest into something they obsessed about every waking moment it would seem.  But it was to be encouraged in their view because it was part of the gospel, etc. etc., and now we are seeing it even to the point that they would disregard warnings even specifically directed at them (apparently Rowe is issuing another book if she hasn't already after her previous one being labeled as non doctrinal and spurious).

[Teancum]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

Since we are having the discussion about the Oregen refuge takeover, I thought this might contribute and help focus the conversation again on Church doctrine as opposed to arguments about what is or isn't appropriate for the government to do:

http://blog.fairmormon.org/2016/01/06/gospel-hobbies-and-the-danger-of-all-consuming-patriotism/

 

Does apologetics qualify?

[Calm]

Defintely could.

[thesometimesaint]

Anything done to excess is too much.

[Darren10]

2 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

Anything done to excess is too much.

Like dedicating yourself to God?

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

Like dedicating yourself to God?

Most people who excessively dedicate themselves to God are trying to escape some responsibility God gave them. I know a guy who argues he should not have to go to church as he is too busy praying and fasting and reading scriptures. Of course in reality he is watching Netflix but the excuse sounds good to him.

[Zakuska]

15 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Most people who excessively dedicate themselves to God are trying to escape some responsibility God gave them. I know a guy who argues he should not have to go to church as he is too busy praying and fasting and reading scriptures. Of course in reality he is watching Netflix but the excuse sounds good to him.

Then why do we have Apostles who "dedicate themselves to God and his Kingdom"?  Or how about our missionaries? What are they trying to escape?

Edited January 9, 2016 by Zakuska

[Scott Lloyd]

Thing about gospel hobbies is that they are not limited to any single ideology or political bent. They are all along the spectrum. 

Those who complain incessantly about Church correlation because it inhibits them in their own sermonizing, preaching or fault finding exhibit their own version of doctrinal hobbyism. 

Edited January 11, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[The Nehor]

22 hours ago, Zakuska said:

Then why do we have Apostles who "dedicate themselves to God and his Kingdom"?  Or how about our missionaries? What are they trying to escape?

I said "most".

[thesometimesaint]

On 1/9/2016 at 11:22 PM, Darren10 said:

Like dedicating yourself to God?

Even that. We all have our work to do to advance the Kingdom as well as ourselves and family.

[mfbukowski]

I honestly think part of the problem is that in the temple people hear the word "patriarchal" to be "patriotical"

Obviously I am not going to go into it but if one believes oneself to be a part of a special "patriotical" religious group that might change everything.

And we are not allowed to correct that impression or wording.

[Scott Lloyd]

6 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

I honestly think part of the problem is that in the temple people hear the word "patriarchal" to be "patriotical"

Obviously I am not going to go into it but if one believes oneself to be a part of a special "patriotical" religious group that might change everything.

And we are not allowed to correct that impression or wording.

I have long been annoyed by the rather common mispronunciation of patrirachal (I hear the errant pronunciation as "patriarticle") but this is the first I've heard that it might lead to doctrinal misconceptions. Perhaps you are right.

[mfbukowski]

27 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I have long been annoyed by the rather common mispronunciation of patrirachal (I hear the errant pronunciation as "patriarticle") but this is the first I've heard that it might lead to doctrinal misconceptions. Perhaps you are right.

Honestly I listen carefully because it bugs me so much.  Yes I hear "patriarticle" as well but very rarely.  "Patriotical" I hear perhaps 25- 30% of the time.  It is totally pervasive.  It is alarming how often I hear it.  I can't even imagine a solution. 

[Calm]

Oops...now that I think of it, that is how I say it a lot...or something halfway between the two.  I need to be able to read it to say it right.  

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Oops...now that I think of it, that is how I say it a lot...or something halfway between the two.  I need to be able to read it to say it right.  

On one occasion, I heard the late Boyd K. Packer mispronounce covetous. He said it "cov-e-choo-us." Now, every time I see that word, I can't help but think of the way he pronounced it.

Late in his life, I heard a talk where he again said the word. I think someone had tried to correct him on his pronunciation, because he appeared to try to get it right, but it came out "cov-e-chus." I think, at some point, a misspelling of the word had become ingrained in his mind's eye that prevented him from pronouncing the word correctly. Perhaps he thought it was spelled c-o-v-e-t-u-o-u-s.

I agree that sometimes words can be difficult for us to pronounce unless we see them written out. And many years of mispronunciation -- by ourselves as well as others -- can hamper our efforts at self-correction.

 

 

[Darren10]

On ‎1‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 1:27 AM, The Nehor said:

Most people who excessively dedicate themselves to God are trying to escape some responsibility God gave them. I know a guy who argues he should not have to go to church as he is too busy praying and fasting and reading scriptures. Of course in reality he is watching Netflix but the excuse sounds good to him.

Liars are not dedicating themselves too much to God I'd say. Your example would not even begin to qualify as "dedicating yourself to God" in my book.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Darren10
Grammar

[Darren10]

On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 4:14 PM, thesometimesaint said:

Even that. We all have our work to do to advance the Kingdom as well as ourselves and family.

And then why is it bad to do it "excessively"?

[thesometimesaint]

I love my Grandkids. I get to spoil them rotten and SEND THEM HOME to their parents.

 

Edited January 15, 2016 by thesometimesaint
spelling

[Darren10]

2 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

I love my Grandkids. I get to spoil them rotten and SEND THEM HOME to their parents.

 

And excellent and healthy experience for you, your grandkids, and their parents.  

[Tacenda]

http://mormonstories.org/  A short podcast of an interview with one of the militiamen. He believes the constitution is spiritual, and talks about the things that lead up to the takeover, such as a spiritual revelation that it was the right thing to do, and God was leading them to it.    

[thesometimesaint]

I wonder if he loves what George Washington did to armed tax cheats?