Armed Militia People Occupying Federal Building in Oregon are LDS, and Citing LDS Doctrines as Justification (Not Really)

[saemo]

2 minutes ago, sheilauk said:

No.  I was joking/teasing.  I don't really want to see any form of Empire by anyone.  Except the Lord's Kingdom.

ha, I was quoting Pink Floyd. Just a song that popped into my head at hearing of the British Empire returning.  

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2016 by saemo

[sheilauk]

Ah, didn't recognise the reference because I'm not much of a music fan and the only Pink Floyd I vaguely know of is the Wall!

[saemo]

4 minutes ago, sheilauk said:

Ah, didn't recognise the reference because I'm not much of a music fan and the only Pink Floyd I vaguely know of is the Wall!

From the same album (yes, album).

[Guest]

With all the laws being broken in the name of one's faith...this is equal to a Greek Tragedy. They are using "our Faith" to break the law, both insulting with their lack of vision and the undue dim light it will cast upon our faith. 

[Duncan]

This is gold, GOLD! it's an interview with one of the guys

 

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-wednesday-edition-1.3391862/oregon-activist-ryan-bundy-compares-government-to-slave-master-with-whip-1.3391869

[rodheadlee]

On 1/6/2016 at 6:02 PM, Avatar4321 said:

For one the command didn't come till over 50 years later

Actually it came about 1950 years before when Christ said:   25 And he said unto them, Render therefore unto ^aCaesar the things which be Caesar’s, and unto God the things which be God’s.  Paul says in Romans 13:

1 Let every soul ^abe subject unto the higher ^bpowers. For there is no ^cpower ^dbut of God: the ^epowers that be are ordained of God.

  2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that ^aresist shall receive to themselves ^bdamnation.

  3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the ^apower? do that which is ^bgood, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

[The Nehor]

59 minutes ago, Duncan said:

This is gold, GOLD! it's an interview with one of the guys

 

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-wednesday-edition-1.3391862/oregon-activist-ryan-bundy-compares-government-to-slave-master-with-whip-1.3391869

Wow. What a dope.

[Duncan]

47 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Wow. What a dope.

 

i'm sure the interviewer was killing herself laughing later on!! I know I would be!

[smac97]

Here's an interesting article on this topic by Jana Reiss.  In the main I don't think much of her writings, but I think she's nailed this one (kinda hard not to).

Here's the graphic she uses (under the title "The Mormon’s guide to hearing from God: Ammon Bundy edition"):

 

Thanks,

-Smac

[Calm]

Did he actually say that about the geese?

[The Nehor]

Just now, Calm said:

Did he actually say that about the geese?

[smac97]

10 minutes ago, Calm said:

Did he actually say that about the geese?

Ammon Bundy didn't say that.  "Captain Moroni" did:

Quote

Meanwhile, Bundy has called for “fellow patriots” to join him at the armed occupation. That call itself closely represents what Captain Moroni told his fellow Nephites in LDS scripture. And it’s part of the reason why “Captain Moroni” came to Burns.

The man identifying as Captain Moroni said he was inspired by the call, and that the inspiration was validated by God in the form of a flock of geese he saw flying.

“I just knew it was the right thing [to come to Oregon],” Captain Moroni said. “I’m willing to die here.”

Here's "Captain Moroni":

What's really weird is . . . he looks slightly familiar to me.

Thanks,

-Smac

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2016 by smac97

[Calm]

Thanks for the info.  I did many hours of research on this and don't really want to do more that this time.

[Zakuska]

More on this Captian Moroni Character...

 

Quote

I’m Captain Moroni, from Utah.”

That’s how one militiaman at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge responded to OPB’s Amanda Peacher when she asked for his name.

That name is not a silly response to deflect responsibility: In many ways, it encapsulates a deeply intertwined anti-federal sentiment mixed with Mormon symbolism. Captain Moroni is a crucial figure in the Church of Latter-day Saints. He’s also a heroic figure for anti-federalist extremists.

READ MORE: What’s next for the armed militiamen in Oregon?

In the modern day west, Captain Moroni has become one of several powerful symbols for the Bundy militia’s anti-governmental extremism.

Who Is Captain Moroni?

According to LDS scripture, Captain Moroni took command of the Nephites when he turned 25. Moroni innovated weaponry, strategy and tactics to help secure the safety of the Nephites, and allow them to worship and govern as they saw fit.

In LDS texts, Moroni prepares to confront a corrupt king by tearing off part of his coat and turning it into a flag, hoisting it as a “title of liberty.” This simple call to arms inspired a great patriotism in the Nephites, helping to raise a formidable army. Vastly outnumbered, the corrupt king fled. According to the Book of Mormon, Captain Moroni continued to push for liberty among his people.

“And it came to pass that Moroni was angry with the government, because of their indifference concerning the freedom of their country.”

 

 

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/why-the-bundy-militia-mixes-mormon-symbolism-with-anti-government-sentiment/

Why the Oregon occupiers are citing the Book of Mormon’s ‘military stud muffin’

Capt. Moroni is “the military stud muffin” of Mormon scripture, says one U.S. religious history expert. It’s also the moniker adopted by an armed man occupying a federal wildlife refuge in Oregon.

 

That’s because some supporters and members of the Bundy clan leading the occupation are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and have for years cited the Book of Mormon in their conflicts with the government and suggested that God blesses their actions.

During the current standoff that began this weekend, one member of the occupiers told an Oregon reporter that his name is “Captain Moroni,” a warrior-hero in the Book of Mormon who faces off against an unfeeling government.

As Jana Riess, Mormon writer and U.S. religious history expert puts it: “People are drawn to the historical Captain Moroni because he’s the military studmuffin of the Book of Mormon; the character is brash and decisive, even ‘angry’… He gets the job done.” In an essay Monday, Riess writes that the captain’s story is a bit more complex in Mormon scripture, and in fact sometimes he’s wrong about who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.

It’s not clear how many people are involved in the standoff, which began Saturday. One member of the Bundy family told a reporter in Oregon that “150 militiamen” were there, but at least one person who saw them leave for the refuge said there were “maybe a dozen” people.

It’s also not clear how much empathy the occupiers have among Mormons, who mostly live in the West and are familiar with tensions over government power. The church’s early decades were marked with confrontation with and persecution from the U.S. government, a reason why Mormons headed West to begin with. These days, perhaps church officials’ highest priority is their concern that the government is infringing on the freedom of religious conservatives with liberalizing changes such as gay marriage and mandatory contraception coverage in health-care plans.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/01/04/why-the-oregon-militia-is-citing-the-book-of-mormons-military-stud-muffin/

Edited January 8, 2016 by Zakuska

[halconero]

On January 7, 2016 at 5:04 PM, sheilauk said:

No.  I was joking/teasing.  I don't really want to see any form of Empire by anyone.  Except the Lord's Kingdom.

Somewhat unrelated, but I found out the other day that Canadians can stand for election in the British Parliament w/o being a British subject due to the Commonwealth ties, as long as they're a permanent resident. Same with the Australian, NZ and several Carribean Parliaments.

While I wouldn't want to see the resurrection of the Empire, it would be nice to see the proposed freedom-of-movement and freedom-of-residence proposal among the Big 4 Commonwealth countries go through

[Avatar4321]

I don't understand the captain Moroni reference. Moroni was a general for tthe government. He put down armed rebellions. He didn't lead them.

 

[The Nehor]

37 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

I don't understand the captain Moroni reference. Moroni was a general for tthe government. He put down armed rebellions. He didn't lead them.

He did threaten to at one point but he was convinced the government was made up of traitors selling out the military. This Captain Moroni is arguing that federal permits for their land use are too hard to come by and that arsonists shouldn't serve prison sentences.

Admittedly I do think mandatory minimum sentences are stupid and should be unilaterally repealed but I am also not a nutcase who constantly lights fires that could spread without approval from those in charge of fighting said fires.

[telnetd]

On 04/01/2016 at 3:19 PM, bluebell said:

The church just did. 

Here.

 

The church's article was very vague. Its reference to the Washington 
Post article made no mention of the word 'scripture', 'Mormon', or 'LDS'. One
needs to do another search to find out who the Bundys are.  

I wonder if the LDS Church will release a new article every time a Mormon creates
negative news in the press.

Gail

[bluebell]

27 minutes ago, telnetd said:

The church's article was very vague. Its reference to the Washington 
Post article made no mention of the word 'scripture', 'Mormon', or 'LDS'. One
needs to do another search to find out who the Bundys are.  

I wonder if the LDS Church will release a new article every time a Mormon creates
negative news in the press.

Gail

When a group of people use verses from the Book of Mormon to justify taking over a federal building, it's both reasonable and prudent for the church to distance themselves from that. 

[thesometimesaint]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

When a group of people use verses from the Book of Mormon to justify taking over a federal building, it's both reasonable and prudent for the church to distance themselves from that. 

If you forgive my turn of phrase. It also gives ammunition that oppose the Church.

[Zakuska]

12 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

I don't understand the captain Moroni reference. Moroni was a general for tthe government. He put down armed rebellions. He didn't lead them.

 

Comes from Alma 59

Chapter 59

Moroni asks Pahoran to strengthen the forces of Helaman—The Lamanites take the city of Nephihah—Moroni is angry with the government. About 62 B.C.

Especially chapter 60

 

Chapter 60

Moroni complains to Pahoran of the government’s neglect of the armies—The Lord suffers the righteous to be slain—The Nephites must use all of their power and means to deliver themselves from their enemies—Moroni threatens to fight against the government unless help is supplied to his armies. About 62 B.C.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Zakuska

[The Nehor]

5 minutes ago, Zakuska said:

Comes from Alma 59

Chapter 59

Moroni asks Pahoran to strengthen the forces of Helaman—The Lamanites take the city of Nephihah—Moroni is angry with the government. About 62 B.C.

Of course the real Moroni was self-aware enough to realize that the government was not a traitor when he got the facts. The new version is not as bright.

[Zakuska]

So here are the axact verses they are using as jutification...

Alma 59

11 And now, when Moroni saw that the city of Nephihah was^alost he was exceedingly sorrowful, and began to doubt, because of the wickedness of the people, whether they should not fall into the hands of their brethren.

 12 Now this was the case with all his chief captains. They doubted and marveled also because of the wickedness of the people, and this because of the success of the Lamanites over them.

 13 And it came to pass that Moroni was angry with the government, because of their ^aindifference concerning the freedom of their country.

Alma 60

Chapter 60

Moroni complains to Pahoran of the government’s neglect of the armies—The Lord suffers the righteous to be slain—The Nephites must use all of their power and means to deliver themselves from their enemies—Moroni threatens to fight against the government unless help is supplied to his armies. About 62 B.C.

 1 And it came to pass that he wrote ^aagain to the governor of the land, who was Pahoran, and these are the words which he wrote, saying: Behold, I direct mine epistle to Pahoran, in the city of Zarahemla, who is the chief judge and the ^bgovernorover the land, and also to all those who have been chosen by this people to govern and manage the affairs of this war.

 2 For behold, I have somewhat to say unto them by the way of^acondemnation; for behold, ye yourselves know that ye have been appointed to gather together men, and arm them with swords, and with cimeters, and all manner of weapons of war of every kind, and send forth against the Lamanites, in whatsoever parts they should come into our land.

 3 And now behold, I say unto you that myself, and also my men, and also Helaman and his men, have suffered exceedingly great ^asufferings; yea, even hunger, thirst, and fatigue, and all manner of afflictions of every kind.

 4 But behold, were this all we had suffered we would not murmur nor complain.

 5 But behold, great has been the slaughter among our people; yea, thousands have fallen by the sword, while it might have otherwise been if ye had rendered unto our armies sufficient strength and succor for them. Yea, great has been your neglect towards us.

 6 And now behold, we desire to know the cause of this exceedingly great neglect; yea, we desire to know the cause of your thoughtless state.

 7 Can you think to sit upon your thrones in a state of thoughtless ^astupor, while your enemies are spreading the work of death around you? Yea, while they are murdering thousands of your brethren—

 8 Yea, even they who have looked up to you for protection, yea, have placed you in a situation that ye might have succored them, yea, ye might have sent armies unto them, to have strengthened them, and have saved thousands of them from falling by the sword.

 9 But behold, this is not all—ye have withheld your provisions from them, insomuch that many have fought and bled out their lives because of their great desires which they had for the welfare of this people; yea, and this they have done when they were about to ^aperish with hunger, because of your exceedingly great neglect towards them.

 10 And now, my beloved brethren—for ye ought to be beloved; yea, and ye ought to have stirred yourselves more diligently for the welfare and the freedom of this people; but behold, ye have neglected them insomuch that the blood of thousands shall come upon your heads for vengeance; yea, for ^aknown unto God were all their cries, and all their sufferings—

 11 Behold, could ye suppose that ye could sit upon your thrones, and because of the exceeding goodness of God ye could do nothing and he would deliver you? Behold, if ye have supposed this ye have supposed in vain.

 12 Do ye ^asuppose that, because so many of your brethren have been killed it is because of their wickedness? I say unto you, if ye have supposed this ye have supposed in vain; for I say unto you, there are many who have fallen by the sword; and behold it is to your condemnation;

 13 For the Lord suffereth the ^arighteous to be slain that his justice and ^bjudgment may come upon the wicked; therefore ye need not suppose that the righteous are lost because they are slain; but behold, they do enter into the rest of the Lord their God.

 14 And now behold, I say unto you, I fear exceedingly that the judgments of God will come upon this people, because of their exceeding ^aslothfulness, yea, even the slothfulness of our government, and their exceedingly great neglect towards their brethren, yea, towards those who have been slain.

 15 For were it not for the wickedness which first commenced at our head, we ^acould have withstood our enemies that they could have gained no power over us.

 16 Yea, had it not been for the war which broke out ^aamongourselves; yea, were it not for these ^bking-men, who caused so much bloodshed among ourselves; yea, at the time we were contending among ourselves, if we had united our strength as we hitherto have done; yea, had it not been for the desire of power and authority which those king-men had over us; had they been true to the cause of our freedom, and united with us, and gone forth against our enemies, instead of taking up their swords against us, which was the cause of so much bloodshed among ourselves; yea, if we had gone forth against them in the strength of the Lord, we should have dispersed our enemies, for it would have been done, according to the ^cfulfilling of his word.

 17 But behold, now the Lamanites are coming upon us, taking^apossession of our lands, and they are murdering our people with the sword, yea, our women and our children, and also carrying them away captive, causing them that they should suffer all manner of afflictions, and this because of the great wickedness of those who are seeking for power and authority, yea, even those king-men.

 18 But why should I say much concerning this matter? For we know not but what ye yourselves are seeking for authority. We know not but what ye are also ^atraitors to your country.

 19 Or is it that ye have neglected us because ye are in the heart of our country and ye are ^asurrounded by security, that ye do not cause food to be sent unto us, and also men to strengthen our armies?

 20 Have ye forgotten the commandments of the Lord your God? Yea, have ye forgotten the captivity of our fathers? Have ye forgotten the many times we have been delivered out of the hands of our enemies?

 21 Or do ye suppose that the Lord ^awill still deliver us, while we sit upon our thrones and do not make use of the means which the Lord has provided for us?

 22 Yea, will ye sit in idleness while ye are surrounded with thousands of those, yea, and tens of thousands, who do also sit in idleness, while there are thousands round about in the borders of the land who are falling by the sword, yea, wounded and bleeding?

 23 Do ye suppose that God will look upon you as guiltless while ye sit still and behold these things? Behold I say unto you, Nay. Now I would that ye should remember that God has said that the ^ainward vessel shall be ^bcleansed first, and then shall the outer vessel be cleansed also.

 24 And now, except ye do repent of that which ye have done, and begin to be up and doing, and send forth food and men unto us, and also unto Helaman, that he may support those parts of our country which he has regained, and that we may also recover the remainder of our possessions in these parts, behold it will be expedient that we contend no more with the Lamanites until we have first cleansed our inward vessel, yea, even the great head of our government.

 25 And except ye grant mine epistle, and come out and show unto me a true ^aspirit of freedom, and strive to strengthen and fortify our armies, and grant unto them food for their support, behold I will leave a part of my freemen to maintain this part of our land, and I will leave the strength and the blessings of God upon them, that none other power can operate against them—

 26 And this because of their exceeding faith, and their patience in their ^atribulations—

 27 And I will come unto you, and if there be any among you that has a desire for freedom, yea, if there be even a spark of freedom remaining, behold I will stir up insurrections among you, even until those who have desires to usurp power and authority shall become extinct.

 28 Yea, behold I do not fear your power nor your authority, but it is my ^aGod whom I fear; and it is according to his commandments that I do take my sword to defend the cause of my country, and it is because of your iniquity that we have suffered so much loss.

 29 Behold it is time, yea, the time is now at hand, that except ye do bestir yourselves in the defence of your country and your little ones, the ^asword of justice doth hang over you; yea, and it shall fall upon you and visit you even to your utter destruction.

 30 Behold, I wait for assistance from you; and, except ye do administer unto our relief, behold, I come unto you, even in the land of Zarahemla, and smite you with the sword, insomuch that ye can have no more power to impede the progress of this people in the cause of our freedom.

 31 For behold, the Lord will not suffer that ye shall live and wax strong in your iniquities to destroy his righteous people.

 32 Behold, can you suppose that the Lord will spare you and come out in judgment against the Lamanites, when it is the^atradition of their fathers that has caused their hatred, yea, and it has been redoubled by those who have dissented from us, while your iniquity is for the cause of your love of glory and the vain things of the world?

 33 Ye know that ye do transgress the laws of God, and ye do know that ye do trample them under your feet. Behold, the Lord saith unto me: If those whom ye have appointed your governors do not repent of their sins and ^ainiquities, ye shall^bgo up to battle against them.

 34 And now behold, I, Moroni, am constrained, according to the covenant which I have made to keep the commandments of my God; therefore I would that ye should adhere to the word of God, and send speedily unto me of your provisions and of your men, and also to Helaman.

 35 And behold, if ye will not do this I come unto you speedily; for behold, God will not suffer that we should perish with hunger; therefore he will give unto us of your food, even if it must be by the sword. Now see that ye fulfil the word of God.

 36 Behold, I am Moroni, your chief captain. I ^aseek not for power, but to pull it down. I ^bseek not for honor of the world, but for the glory of my God, and the freedom and welfare of my country. And thus I close mine epistle.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Zakuska

[The Nehor]

5 minutes ago, Zakuska said:

So here are the axact verses they are using as jutification...

Alma 59

11 And now, when Moroni saw that the city of Nephihah was^alost he was exceedingly sorrowful, and began to doubt, because of the wickedness of the people, whether they should not fall into the hands of their brethren.

 12 Now this was the case with all his chief captains. They doubted and marveled also because of the wickedness of the people, and this because of the success of the Lamanites over them.

 13 And it came to pass that Moroni was angry with the government, because of their ^aindifference concerning the freedom of their country.

Alma 60

Chapter 60

Moroni complains to Pahoran of the government’s neglect of the armies—The Lord suffers the righteous to be slain—The Nephites must use all of their power and means to deliver themselves from their enemies—Moroni threatens to fight against the government unless help is supplied to his armies. About 62 B.C.

 1 And it came to pass that he wrote ^aagain to the governor of the land, who was Pahoran, and these are the words which he wrote, saying: Behold, I direct mine epistle to Pahoran, in the city of Zarahemla, who is the chief judge and the ^bgovernorover the land, and also to all those who have been chosen by this people to govern and manage the affairs of this war.

 2 For behold, I have somewhat to say unto them by the way of^acondemnation; for behold, ye yourselves know that ye have been appointed to gather together men, and arm them with swords, and with cimeters, and all manner of weapons of war of every kind, and send forth against the Lamanites, in whatsoever parts they should come into our land.

 3 And now behold, I say unto you that myself, and also my men, and also Helaman and his men, have suffered exceedingly great ^asufferings; yea, even hunger, thirst, and fatigue, and all manner of afflictions of every kind.

 4 But behold, were this all we had suffered we would not murmur nor complain.

 5 But behold, great has been the slaughter among our people; yea, thousands have fallen by the sword, while it might have otherwise been if ye had rendered unto our armies sufficient strength and succor for them. Yea, great has been your neglect towards us.

 6 And now behold, we desire to know the cause of this exceedingly great neglect; yea, we desire to know the cause of your thoughtless state.

 7 Can you think to sit upon your thrones in a state of thoughtless ^astupor, while your enemies are spreading the work of death around you? Yea, while they are murdering thousands of your brethren—

 8 Yea, even they who have looked up to you for protection, yea, have placed you in a situation that ye might have succored them, yea, ye might have sent armies unto them, to have strengthened them, and have saved thousands of them from falling by the sword.

 9 But behold, this is not all—ye have withheld your provisions from them, insomuch that many have fought and bled out their lives because of their great desires which they had for the welfare of this people; yea, and this they have done when they were about to ^aperish with hunger, because of your exceedingly great neglect towards them.

 10 And now, my beloved brethren—for ye ought to be beloved; yea, and ye ought to have stirred yourselves more diligently for the welfare and the freedom of this people; but behold, ye have neglected them insomuch that the blood of thousands shall come upon your heads for vengeance; yea, for ^aknown unto God were all their cries, and all their sufferings—

 11 Behold, could ye suppose that ye could sit upon your thrones, and because of the exceeding goodness of God ye could do nothing and he would deliver you? Behold, if ye have supposed this ye have supposed in vain.

 12 Do ye ^asuppose that, because so many of your brethren have been killed it is because of their wickedness? I say unto you, if ye have supposed this ye have supposed in vain; for I say unto you, there are many who have fallen by the sword; and behold it is to your condemnation;

 13 For the Lord suffereth the ^arighteous to be slain that his justice and ^bjudgment may come upon the wicked; therefore ye need not suppose that the righteous are lost because they are slain; but behold, they do enter into the rest of the Lord their God.

 14 And now behold, I say unto you, I fear exceedingly that the judgments of God will come upon this people, because of their exceeding ^aslothfulness, yea, even the slothfulness of our government, and their exceedingly great neglect towards their brethren, yea, towards those who have been slain.

 15 For were it not for the wickedness which first commenced at our head, we ^acould have withstood our enemies that they could have gained no power over us.

 16 Yea, had it not been for the war which broke out ^aamongourselves; yea, were it not for these ^bking-men, who caused so much bloodshed among ourselves; yea, at the time we were contending among ourselves, if we had united our strength as we hitherto have done; yea, had it not been for the desire of power and authority which those king-men had over us; had they been true to the cause of our freedom, and united with us, and gone forth against our enemies, instead of taking up their swords against us, which was the cause of so much bloodshed among ourselves; yea, if we had gone forth against them in the strength of the Lord, we should have dispersed our enemies, for it would have been done, according to the ^cfulfilling of his word.

 17 But behold, now the Lamanites are coming upon us, taking^apossession of our lands, and they are murdering our people with the sword, yea, our women and our children, and also carrying them away captive, causing them that they should suffer all manner of afflictions, and this because of the great wickedness of those who are seeking for power and authority, yea, even those king-men.

 18 But why should I say much concerning this matter? For we know not but what ye yourselves are seeking for authority. We know not but what ye are also ^atraitors to your country.

 19 Or is it that ye have neglected us because ye are in the heart of our country and ye are ^asurrounded by security, that ye do not cause food to be sent unto us, and also men to strengthen our armies?

 20 Have ye forgotten the commandments of the Lord your God? Yea, have ye forgotten the captivity of our fathers? Have ye forgotten the many times we have been delivered out of the hands of our enemies?

 21 Or do ye suppose that the Lord ^awill still deliver us, while we sit upon our thrones and do not make use of the means which the Lord has provided for us?

 22 Yea, will ye sit in idleness while ye are surrounded with thousands of those, yea, and tens of thousands, who do also sit in idleness, while there are thousands round about in the borders of the land who are falling by the sword, yea, wounded and bleeding?

 23 Do ye suppose that God will look upon you as guiltless while ye sit still and behold these things? Behold I say unto you, Nay. Now I would that ye should remember that God has said that the ^ainward vessel shall be ^bcleansed first, and then shall the outer vessel be cleansed also.

 24 And now, except ye do repent of that which ye have done, and begin to be up and doing, and send forth food and men unto us, and also unto Helaman, that he may support those parts of our country which he has regained, and that we may also recover the remainder of our possessions in these parts, behold it will be expedient that we contend no more with the Lamanites until we have first cleansed our inward vessel, yea, even the great head of our government.

 25 And except ye grant mine epistle, and come out and show unto me a true ^aspirit of freedom, and strive to strengthen and fortify our armies, and grant unto them food for their support, behold I will leave a part of my freemen to maintain this part of our land, and I will leave the strength and the blessings of God upon them, that none other power can operate against them—

 26 And this because of their exceeding faith, and their patience in their ^atribulations—

 27 And I will come unto you, and if there be any among you that has a desire for freedom, yea, if there be even a spark of freedom remaining, behold I will stir up insurrections among you, even until those who have desires to usurp power and authority shall become extinct.

 28 Yea, behold I do not fear your power nor your authority, but it is my ^aGod whom I fear; and it is according to his commandments that I do take my sword to defend the cause of my country, and it is because of your iniquity that we have suffered so much loss.

 29 Behold it is time, yea, the time is now at hand, that except ye do bestir yourselves in the defence of your country and your little ones, the ^asword of justice doth hang over you; yea, and it shall fall upon you and visit you even to your utter destruction.

 30 Behold, I wait for assistance from you; and, except ye do administer unto our relief, behold, I come unto you, even in the land of Zarahemla, and smite you with the sword, insomuch that ye can have no more power to impede the progress of this people in the cause of our freedom.

 31 For behold, the Lord will not suffer that ye shall live and wax strong in your iniquities to destroy his righteous people.

 32 Behold, can you suppose that the Lord will spare you and come out in judgment against the Lamanites, when it is the^atradition of their fathers that has caused their hatred, yea, and it has been redoubled by those who have dissented from us, while your iniquity is for the cause of your love of glory and the vain things of the world?

 33 Ye know that ye do transgress the laws of God, and ye do know that ye do trample them under your feet. Behold, the Lord saith unto me: If those whom ye have appointed your governors do not repent of their sins and ^ainiquities, ye shall^bgo up to battle against them.

 34 And now behold, I, Moroni, am constrained, according to the covenant which I have made to keep the commandments of my God; therefore I would that ye should adhere to the word of God, and send speedily unto me of your provisions and of your men, and also to Helaman.

 35 And behold, if ye will not do this I come unto you speedily; for behold, God will not suffer that we should perish with hunger; therefore he will give unto us of your food, even if it must be by the sword. Now see that ye fulfil the word of God.

 36 Behold, I am Moroni, your chief captain. I ^aseek not for power, but to pull it down. I ^bseek not for honor of the world, but for the glory of my God, and the freedom and welfare of my country. And thus I close mine epistle.

His comparison also fails when you realize that Moroni was basically Chairmen of the Joint Chiefs and had a whole military loyal to him personally with which to march in and launch a coup while the new version is begging a couple of idiots to join him so they can live in a building and hope no one gets mad enough to kill them all.

[Zakuska]

Just now, The Nehor said:

His comparison also fails when you realize that Moroni was basically Chairmen of the Joint Chiefs and had a whole military loyal to him personally with which to march in and launch a coup while the new version is begging a couple of idiots to join him so they can live in a building and hope no one gets mad enough to kill them all.

 

Just now, The Nehor said:

His comparison also fails when you realize that Moroni was basically Chairmen of the Joint Chiefs and had a whole military loyal to him personally with which to march in and launch a coup while the new version is begging a couple of idiots to join him so they can live in a building and hope no one gets mad enough to kill them all.

When one takes into account their prior successes in Nevada you see a beginning of a movement to stick it to the iron fist of an over bearing federal goverment that tramples on the Freedoms of its subjects.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Zakuska