hagoth7 Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 One of the candidates for U.S. president has recently reiterated a personal suggestion that the Egyptian pyramids were built by Joseph to store grain. Some of the commentators thought the suggestion was heckle-worth, calling the idea "quirky". What are your thoughts? Anyone familiar enough about the interior of some of the pyramids, and their supposed age, to offer comment? (Let's not get political about any specific party or candidate)
ksfisher Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Looks like a fairly efficient grain storage structure. 1
bluebell Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 They are burial tombs. It's pretty much a settle part of history. Like ksfisher said, pyramids are not hollow. It would be a very inefficient way to store anything. Not to mention it took something like 20 years to build them. That wouldn't work when Joseph only had 7 years to prepare for the drought.
hagoth7 Posted November 5, 2015 Author Posted November 5, 2015 (edited) Looks like a fairly efficient grain storage structure. Perhaps the candidate was speaking of some "pyramids" other than the ones in Giza....? Here's an example of one ancient Egyptian site (Saqqara), containing over a dozen enormous pits that could hold enough grain to feed entire cities, which at least one author believed was Joseph's granary. http://www.arkdiscovery.com/joseph.htm Have other sites been found that have been proposed as Joseph's granaries? Thoughts? Edited November 5, 2015 by hagoth7
ksfisher Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 Perhaps the candidate was speaking of some "pyramids" other than the ones in Giza....? Here's an example of one ancient Egyptian site (Saqqara), containing over a dozen enormous pits that could hold enough grain to feed entire cities, which at least one author believed was Joseph's granary. http://www.arkdiscovery.com/joseph.htm Have other sites been found that have been proposed as Joseph's granaries? Thoughts?It looks like the people behind this site have also found the Ark of the Covenant, Noah's Ark, Mt Siani, the Red Sea crossing site, etc.
The Nehor Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 It looks like the people behind this site have also found the Ark of the Covenant, Noah's Ark, Mt Siani, the Red Sea crossing site, etc. Oh, I didn't realize this came from those guys. Yeah, upgrade my answer from "unlikely" to "those people are nuts and you should believe the opposite of anything they say".
hagoth7 Posted November 6, 2015 Author Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) It looks like the people behind this site have also found the Ark of the Covenant, Noah's Ark, Mt Siani, the Red Sea crossing site, etc.Yep. Understood. Oh, I didn't realize this came from those guys. Yeah, upgrade my answer from "unlikely" to "those people are nuts and you should believe the opposite of anything they say". Guilt by association? I don't agree with the logic that just because someone might apparently be mistaken a number of times that they're going to strike out every additional time at bat. A discovered tomb of officials at Saqqara has wall paintings which depict things that suggest the earlier assessment might be spot on. "In the first three scenes, we find the barley being measured out in the granary and being noted by scribe and the overseer of the warehouse. In the next three registers, the grain is ground and cleaned." http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/niankhnumt.htm I notice many have quickly dismissed this.Too quick to judgement? Baby? Bathwater? Are there other suggestions for possible granary sites for Joseph? Thoughts? Edited November 6, 2015 by hagoth7 1
The Nehor Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 Yep. Understood. Guilt by association? I don't agree with the logic that just because someone might apparently be mistaken a number of times that they're going to strike out every additional time at bat. A discovered tomb of officials at Saqqara has wall paintings which depict things that suggest the earlier assessment might be spot on. "In the first three scenes, we find the barley being measured out in the granary and being noted by scribe and the overseer of the warehouse. In the next three registers, the grain is ground and cleaned." http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/niankhnumt.htm I notice many have quickly dismissed this.Too quick to judgement? Baby? Bathwater? Are there other suggestions for possible granary sites for Joseph? Thoughts? Yes, I believe in wrongness by association in this case. The same way when I see the cover story of the Weekly World News and how they just discovered the Chinese are digging a hole through the center of the planet to fire an ICBM at the United States from below I do not think: "Well, they were wrong about the bat-human hybrid baby and that reptilian aliens from Alpha Centauri have taken over Venezuela but maybe this time they got it right." True, the Egyptians did use pits as granaries but the idea that you found a random pit and that pit is somehow evidence that it comes from the time of Joseph is laughable. They had granaries before Joseph and continued to have granaries afterwards. Also, read their account trying to make Imhotep into Joseph. All I can say is: I imagine a real Egyptologist would be more like this:
hagoth7 Posted November 6, 2015 Author Posted November 6, 2015 Yes, I believe in wrongness by association in this case. The same way when I see the cover story of the Weekly World News and how they just discovered the Chinese are digging a hole through the center of the planet to fire an ICBM at the United States from below I do not think: "Well, they were wrong about the bat-human hybrid baby and that reptilian aliens from Alpha Centauri have taken over Venezuela but maybe this time they got it right." True, the Egyptians did use pits as granaries but the idea that you found a random pit and that pit is somehow evidence that it comes from the time of Joseph is laughable. They had granaries before Joseph and continued to have granaries afterwards. Also, read their account trying to make Imhotep into Joseph. All I can say is: I imagine a real Egyptologist would be more like this: If you recall, I closed my comments with:"Are there other suggestions for possible granary sites for Joseph?..." That was a genuine request. I'm interested in what other viable discoveries are out there, and what the evidence for them might be.Did you have a constructive response to that query?
The Nehor Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 If you recall, I closed my comments with:"Are there other suggestions for possible granary sites for Joseph?..." That was a genuine request. I'm interested in what other viable discoveries are out there, and what the evidence for them might be.Did you have a constructive response to that query? Yeah, I didn't bother answering that part. There are undoubtedly granaries old enough but tying them to Joseph? Yeah, probably not. For future reference I generally don't have constructive responses in general. 1
bluebell Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 If you recall, I closed my comments with:"Are there other suggestions for possible granary sites for Joseph?..." That was a genuine request. I'm interested in what other viable discoveries are out there, and what the evidence for them might be.Did you have a constructive response to that query? As far as i am aware, there is nothing in the historical record that supports the existence of Joseph of Egypt. There are plenty of granaries, but nothing that connects them to the bible story that i know of.
Glenn101 Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 As far as i am aware, there is nothing in the historical record that supports the existence of Joseph of Egypt. There are plenty of granaries, but nothing that connects them to the bible story that i know of. Is there anything in the historical record that supports the existence of the Children of Israel in Egypt at all?? Thanks,Glenn
bluebell Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 Is there anything in the historical record that supports the existence of the Children of Israel in Egypt at all?? Thanks,Glenn I haven't studying this topic very extensively, but not that i know of. I know a lot of people have tried to 'find' them in history, but last i heard no one has been able to.
Crypto Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 Is there anything in the historical record that supports the existence of the Children of Israel in Egypt at all?? Thanks,GlennThere are ancient Egyptian papyri which have Abraham's name on them. Probably not considered strong evidence though.
strappinglad Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 My biggest problem with the Joseph / Pharaoh story is that it documents how land and wealth were transferred from the people to the Pharaoh because of the shortage of grain. In the several millennia of Egypt's history, a drought of seven years might be mentioned but like many of the battles, the carvings depicted whatever the Pharaoh wanted, not necessarily what actually happened. Contrary to popular opinion , Egyptian history and timelines are not carved in stone , ( oh stop it strap ! ). 1
The Nehor Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 Is there anything in the historical record that supports the existence of the Children of Israel in Egypt at all?? Thanks,Glenn Not a lot. Some historians believe there is some element of truth to the Moses stories but their primary reason is that if a people make up their own history from scratch they rarely give themselves such an ignominious beginning as being slaves to another people. Even the Patriarchs are a bunch of landless vagrants wandering all over the place without any stability. Not all historians share this view though. I read one piece where a historian argued that an exiled Egyptian noble or priest may have led his followers out of Egypt, mixed with some locals out there, and become the Israelites and kept the story but even the writer admitted it was VERY speculative. I largely believe the Exodus account though I think hyperbole worked its way in particularly into the size of the Israelite exodus (about 600,000 men meaning over a million and probably more like a million and a half people counting women and children). The entire population of Egypt is estimated to have been between 2 and 4 million. This also makes the idea that two Israelite midwives were serving the entire Israelite populace pretty ridiculous.
Stone holm Posted November 8, 2015 Posted November 8, 2015 One of the candidates for U.S. president has recently reiterated a personal suggestion that the Egyptian pyramids were built by Joseph to store grain. Some of the commentators thought the suggestion was heckle-worth, calling the idea "quirky". What are your thoughts? Anyone familiar enough about the interior of some of the pyramids, and their supposed age, to offer comment? (Let's not get political about any specific party or candidate)Dr. Carson has raised some serious questions about our beliefs. Like the relative intelligence of surgeons.
Stone holm Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 One of the candidates for U.S. president has recently reiterated a personal suggestion that the Egyptian pyramids were built by Joseph to store grain. Some of the commentators thought the suggestion was heckle-worth, calling the idea "quirky". What are your thoughts? Anyone familiar enough about the interior of some of the pyramids, and their supposed age, to offer comment? (Let's not get political about any specific party or candidate)It was a comment made a long time ago, but the media seems intent on distracting all campaigns from discussing facts and issues that really matter. 1
KevinG Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 BOOO! Thank you, thank you. I'm here all week. Try the veal!
The Nehor Posted November 13, 2015 Posted November 13, 2015 It was a comment made a long time ago, but the media seems intent on distracting all campaigns from discussing facts and issues that really matter.To be fair we have candidates acting like little boys building forts making noise about building big fences to keep people with cooties out so it is not just the media focused on irrelevancies.
3DOP Posted November 14, 2015 Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) Okay...big disclaimer...for those who may not know, I am not even Mormon. But why else than grain storage can non-Mormons think Joseph built the Pyramids? Please recall that Napoleon observed them before Joseph had his first visions! It's fine if you guys think Joseph built the Pyramids, as a little child before Napoleon's Egyptian campaign. But it stretches credulity for LDS to insist that as an infant, Joseph, before HE was even a Latter-day Saint, built the Pyramids as the earliest Restoration Temples! Sorry about that, I just have to agree with the presidential candidate on this one.3DOP Edited November 14, 2015 by 3DOP
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