In a Handbasket

[hagoth7]

According to Brigham, Joseph once said, speaking of how much he loved Emma, that he would have her by his side in the hereafter, even if he had to go to hell for her.

Truman Madsen spoke a bit about that, saying that Joseph didn't say that Emma was going to hell, nor did he say he would have to go after her. He simply said it was a measure of his willingness to do whatever it took to serve and be with her.

Joseph also said, in response to condemnation from others:  "I see no faults in the Church, and therefore let me be resurrected with the Saints whether I ascend to heaven or descend to hell, or go to any other place. And if we go to hell, we will turn the devils out of doors and make a heaven of it, Where this people are, there is good society."

I hope this song doesn't come across as flippant in any way.

Twice in the last month, people have suggested a road to Hell was under construction. Once in the gaslighting thread. And again in one of the 3 nefite threads, in the context of good-intentions paving.

A talk by Elder Bednar basically illuminated a D&C passage where called recipients were told to simply load up, and head east, west, north, or south, it didn't matter which. Because in any direct, there was good that needed doing . Or as someone cited in the Flim thread, "Let's do some good." Aligns in a figurative way with not fretting about one's reward in the life to come, but simply focusing on the work at hand. Losing/finding oneself in that. Which Ibelieve is at essence what Joseph meant.

At the Vikings exhibit this week, there were several things about the afterlife, including Hel and a few of the other Norse understandings of the afterlife.  Folkvangr, for example, looked perhaps more fun than Valhalla. Interesting, and perhaps beneficial, that in such a famework, the valkyrie decide. Squares up with an earlier thread on Pharoah, and a few things taught in church over the years.

As to Hel, Baldr supposedly got sent there from a mishap...but was stuck there for a wee bit, in part because one troublemaker wouldn't weep for him...knowing full well that a shed tear was all that was needed for bail. So Baldr's brother Hermod was sent to Hel and back to fetch him.

Added: Which reminds me of the Doberman thread(s).

 

"The things of God are of deep import ; and time, and experience, and careful and ponderous and solemn thoughts can only find them out.Thy mind O man! If thou wilt lead a soul unto salvation, must stretch as high as the utmost heavens, and search into and contemplate the darkest abyss, and the broad expanse of eternity - thou must commune with God."

Placeholder OP for percolation. Feel free to comment. Don't even know yet what my question is on this. Perhaps tomorrow.

Edited July 15, 2017 by hagoth7

[RevTestament]

I'll speak for Joseph, but I stand by Yeshua.

[hagoth7]

Three comments (after adding/updating one to the OP)

1.

2. Have attended very few concerts in my life. But years back, my wife and I went uber-geek to Vegas to attend a sci-fi conference and visit a sci-fi museum. A different kinda trek.  

(No, we didn't suit up/LARP or gamble.)

While there, we noticed a concert was being held in our hotel, and the band name was slightly familiar, and we bought tickets on a lark. Other than the Kelly Clarkson/Pentatonix concert we attended with the kids a year or two ago, that's the only one we've been to together. Was stunned at how many of their songs we remembered from our teenage days...not really remembering having heard of them by name. But this was them:

 

3. Brings to mind a scene from a film seen sometimes during the last year or three, where someone is hollering "Hold!   Hold!" to a line of troops (? Russell Crowe?, Mel Gibson? Tom Hanks?), encouraging them to patiently hold their attack and/or not break ranks, while the enemy/foe advances. 

Honestly can't put my finger on it at the moment. Anyone know what clip/movie that might be?

Bueller?  

Edited July 16, 2017 by hagoth7

[hagoth7]

Which brings to mind a lesson once taught, or repeatedly taught, of how to best vanquish/destroy one's enemies. Compassionately. Akin to a message in a song in the early Camelot movie.

Taught in the NT, repeatedly

And in the Book of Mormon.

And was taught to me again in an odd/amplified way in the last year or so, through a little/powerpacked book handed to me by an elvish pastor/friend. 

Edited July 16, 2017 by hagoth7

[hagoth7]

Encountered a man not long ago. Who needed ministry.

A pastor that night treated him, me and a few others to a meal.

The other man said something at the table about what he had done, and what he wished to do, that raised my hackles in defense. I was ready to fight/fend him off  - wished to repulse him, thinking that was the slip-into-the-phone-booth, don-the-cape right thing to do. (I am immature....rash...at times too quick to judge, rather than seek to understand/minister.)

The pastor instead calmly/gently turned to that man and said that in such a case, he would want to give him a hug.

Should I ever grow up, my wish is to be more like that kind-hearted pastor.

Edited July 15, 2017 by hagoth7

[Robert F. Smith]

11 hours ago, hagoth7 said:

According to Brigham, Joseph once said, speaking of how much he loved Emma, that he would have her by his side in the hereafter, even if he had to go to hell for her.

..........................................

A sentiment Joseph obviously stole from "Orpheus and Eurydice."

[hagoth7]

4 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

A sentiment Joseph obviously stole from "Orpheus and Eurydice."

...every such book, except of course the four fastest, being among the smallish stack of books in the Palmyra public library, right?

Wasn't famliar with either of those names. Greek/Roman beliefs aren't my shtick. Thank you for sharing. Munching/chomping on two BYU talks to round out /square up relevance within a restoration context. 

 

Edited July 15, 2017 by hagoth7

[Maidservant]

Hell actually means light.  Helios.  Luz.  (Well, so does Lucifer.)  So it sounds like a place we actually want to go to.  Not sure where we got the wires crossed that it was something else.  I think 'hell' is very Greek.  It's not really Jewish or Jesus.  (In my reading of the Old and New Testament, not an expert.)   There's always Sheol.

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, hagoth7 said:

...every such book, except of course the four fastest, being among the smallish stack of books in the Palmyra public library, right?

Wasn't famliar with either of those names. Thank you for sharing. Munching/chomping on two BYU talks to round out /square up relevance within a restoration context. 

The public library we know about was in Manchester, and we have their book list.

[Calm]

17 minutes ago, Maidservant said:

Hell actually means light.  Helios.  Luz.  (Well, so does Lucifer.)  So it sounds like a place we actually want to go to.  Not sure where we got the wires crossed that it was something else.  I think 'hell' is very Greek.  It's not really Jewish or Jesus.  (In my reading of the Old and New Testament, not an expert.)   There's always Sheol.

No, it is Germanic:

Old English hel, hell, of Germanic origin; related to Dutch hel and German Hölle, from an Indo-European root meaning ‘to cover or hide.’

(google definitions)

"

also Hell, Old English hel, helle, "nether world, abode of the dead, infernal regions, place of torment for the wicked after death," from Proto-Germanic *haljo "the underworld" (source also of Old Frisian helle, Old Saxon hellia, Dutch hel, Old Norse hel, German Hölle, Gothic halja "hell"). Literally "concealed place" (compare Old Norse hellir "cave, cavern"), from PIE root *kel- (1) "to cover, conceal, save." 

The English word may be in part from Old Norse mythological Hel (from Proto-Germanic *halija "one who covers up or hides something"), in Norse mythology the name of Loki's daughter who rules over the evil dead in Niflheim, the lowest of all worlds (nifl "mist"). A pagan concept and word fitted to a Christian idiom. In Middle English, also of the Limbus Patrum, place where the Patriarchs, Prophets, etc. awaited the Atonement. Used in the KJV for Old Testament Hebrew Sheol and New Testament Greek Hades, Gehenna."

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=Hell

Sheol:

"Scholars have looked far and wide to explain the name Sheol via words found in other languages but no explanation wholly satisfied and we're back to the obvious, albeit difficult to explain, namely that the name Sheol comes from the verb שאל (sha'al), meaning to ask, inquire, borrow, beg..."

http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Sheol.html#.WWqLdJHOehA

Hades:

"His name is of unknown origin. Perhaps literally "the invisible" [Watkins], from privative prefix a- + idein "to see" (from PIE root *weid- "to see"). The name of the god was extended in later Greek writing to his kingdom, also "the grave, death." Related: Hadal (adj.), 1964; Hadean."

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Hades

Edited July 15, 2017 by Calm

[hagoth7]

17 hours ago, Maidservant said:

Hell actually means light. ..

And...if you and Calm are *both* right?

Hidden.

*And* light.

And health. Cue: vulcan.

English: hello  

Brings to mind my fav Neil Diamond song. From a movie that meant a lot to me as a teenager. Used to play it often. And I know a guy who had his raisin-sized, black-coal-colored heart broken over that song once.  Come to think of it, a woman I know, and hermother went to Neil's concert earlier this year when he came to town.

Gotta do it. Gonna break out into song. The kid's gotta sing.

 (paused to hear Neil's song a atime or two). 

 

English "hello" is used in meeting, *not* parting. (Has it always been that way?)

Meanwhile, their cousins on the European continent instead use a word having *both* meanings of hello *and* goodbye, akin to Aloha. (Iwrote a wee bit about that a few days ago.)

 

That does it...you're *all* pot stirrers. Every last one of ya.

 

That first Neil Diamond stong finished playing.

Youtube next cued: "the story of my life"

Don't know what that song might do for some of you, but today, reflects how I feel about every faith that has ministered to me throughout my life (Jewish/Christian/Muslim/Baha'i), both through the teachings, companionship, and kindness of those living in the here and now, and those in another plane...through the examples/histories/teachings/songs that they have left...like breadcrumbs.

Edited July 16, 2017 by hagoth7