Spirit World After Life References

[CASteinman]

I have an opportunity to compare some notes on our ideas of what happens after death with a friend.

He is convinced you go straight to Heaven.

I would like to share a good article that summarizes the Biblical and Other Christian Source Documents regarding the life after death from our perspective. -- written at the level of a "beginner" type student, but comprehensive.

I can put a paper together on my own, but I thought that this forum might have some really excellent links or ideas.

Any thoughts?

[Kevin Christensen]

The Bible actually contains surprisingly little information about the afterlife. A few hints in the OT here and there, the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, a few hints in Peter and Paul, a few passages in Revelation. Dante casts a long shadow in Christian tradition. Carol Zaleski's Otherworld Journey's compares modern NDE literature with medieval NDE accounts. Moody's The Light Beyond remains a very good introduction to modern NDE research.

The Book of Mormon contains far more information than does the Bible, mostly thanks to Alma, who obtained his information while "nigh unto death."

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/jbms/?vol=2&num=1&id=16

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Bethel Park, PA

[Nofear]

While there is a great deal of NDE literature, as a materialist and realist, I have come to some degree of skepticism about them. Not that I believe that NDE's aren't real but I am not persuaded as to their physical reality -- at least for a great many of them. Having read my fair share of NDE accounts and knowing the plasticity of memory for the mortal mind it becomes difficult to separate the actual experiences with a consistent reality.

My current working hypothesis is that during a near death experience we experience the following:

1. Loss of control of the physical body by the mind/intelligence (e.g. death)

2. Prior to resumption of sensory input from the spirit body from the spirit world we experience a mental/simulated/virtual transitory "reality". This transitory phase is specialized to the individuals and perhaps serves some preparatory purpose. Most, if not all, NDE accounts I speculate never make it past here.

3. The mind/intelligence again gains control of their spirit body and they are spatially and temporally synchronized with the spirit world and its inhabitants.

To put it another way, while I believe in NDE accounts and the impact on the individuals, I am not so persuaded that they can afford us with a useful description of post-mortal reality. Really kind of a shame because I am very, very interested in the physics of spirit matter. Ah well.

Anyway, as you get some references and material to look at (and their is much) don't be too afraid to confront incosistencies head on. I find that many authors (including LDS ones) try to pidgeon hole the data into preconceptions and even ignore anomolous data.

[Yep]

Any thoughts?

A couple of my favorite sources for LDS information right now are these:

LDS Citation Index For all general conference talks, the Journal of Discourses and Scriptural Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith with a decent search ability, sometimes slightly buggy though.

Religious Studies Center (BYU) I just really like some of the articles and books here.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Yep

[Yep]

I was also just thinking. My experience leads me to believe that much of the non-LDS view of Heaven is often more comparable to our Spirit World or with a general view of our Heaven (all glories) and Hell (Outer Darkness). Sometimes if they have a nearly completely encompassing faith alone entry Heaven with differing rewards based in works, our Heaven fits. But overall my discussions have led me to a general belief that non_LDS Christians often have a Heaven that is based in what we believe is the spirit world.

[urroner]

The Lord of the Rings, Gandalf died and was brought back. What more is necessary?

In my reality, the Lord hasn't let us know all that much about the next life. I don't think we would be able to understand it.

The Bible doesn't have too much about it and the ECFs didn't write that much about it either. Basically, what the Bible and the ECFs said is that Christ overcame death and broke the gates of hell/hades or death so there could be a resurrection. After the resurrection, the spiritually saved with live with God and those not, will not live iwith Him. AFAIK, there really is much detail about what we would be doing in the next life or much detail on what it would be like, even in modern day scriptures and revelations.

[Stone holm]

I remember a religious history class at Notre Dame where the Professor, an ex-priest, described the Italian view of Heaven as the sweet do nothing. I think that is the general Protestant view, which works pretty well as a description of hell for some people as well if you think about floating around on a cloud strumming a harp for eternity singing hymns of praise. I believe this concept may have inspired Mark Twain's twit that you go to heaven for the climate and hell for the company.

[volgadon]

For a decent overview of biblical ideas, try Bernhard Lang' article, "Afterlife: Ancient Israel's Changing Vision of the World Beyond."

[mfbukowski]

"This day thou shalt be with me in Paradise."

Sounds pretty quick to me.

[blackstrap]

"This day thou shalt be with me in Paradise."

Sounds pretty quick to me.

Gotta remember that 'ol " one day is as 1000 years " stuff.

[mfbukowski]

Gotta remember that 'ol " one day is as 1000 years " stuff.

Then the poor thief got robbed!

[volgadon]

Then the poor thief got robbed!

No one tried to say a thing

When they took him out in jest

Except, of course, the little neighbor boy

Who carried him to rest

And he just walked along, alone

With his guilt so well concealed

And muttered underneath his breath

“Nothing is revealed”

Well, the moral of the story

The moral of this song

Is simply that one should never be

Where one does not belong

So when you see your neighbor carryin’ somethin’

Help him with his load

And don’t go mistaking Paradise

For that home across the road

[kenporay]

"This day thou shalt be with me in Paradise."

Sounds pretty quick to me.

John 20:17 is a classic response to this...Jesus saith unto her, touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brethren and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Apparently he wasn't in heaven for 3 days.

[mfbukowski]

John 20:17 is a classic response to this...Jesus saith unto her, touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brethren and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Apparently he wasn't in heaven for 3 days.

That does not show that.

"Heaven" is spirit paradise, God resides in the Celestial Kingdom.

Two different places. I guess you are not LDS.

Edited April 29, 2013 by mfbukowski

[Yep]

That does not show that.

"Heaven" is spirit paradise, God resides in the Celestial Kingdom.

Two different places. I guess you are not LDS.

I don't believe that as LDS we could say that Paradise is "Heaven". Paradise and the Spirit Prison are located here, and Earth has yet to receive its paradisiacal glory. Now, I do believe that the Spirit World as we understand it can be viewed as the Heaven and Hell that many religions believe in. The Celestial Kingdom is a kingdom of Heaven, not a separate/different place.

[mfbukowski]

I don't believe that as LDS we could say that Paradise is "Heaven". Paradise and the Spirit Prison are located here, and Earth has yet to receive its paradisiacal glory. Now, I do believe that the Spirit World as we understand it can be viewed as the Heaven and Hell that many religions believe in. The Celestial Kingdom is a kingdom of Heaven, not a separate/different place.

That's nice- it appears to be semantics. If you want to call the Celestial Kingdom "heaven", that's your business, but you are only introducing confusion into the equation.

You said that the

Spirit World as we understand it can be viewed as the Heaven and Hell that many religions believe in

yet you also want to call the Celestial Kingdom "Heaven". That creates ambiguity- big time. It makes no separation between Heaven and the CK.

The problem of course is that on that definition, only Mormons "go to heaven" if by that term you mean the CK.

On the other hand if we use the right terminology separating the spirit world from the CK, when speaking to those outside our faith, it is not true that "only Mormons go to heaven"- since all go to the spirit world, which includes Paradise.

Clearly, on the cross, Christ was not telling the thief he would be exalted in the CK "this day".

The choice of words is important. It makes all the difference in the world.

Edited April 29, 2013 by mfbukowski

[Lightbearer]

My favorite scripture is the following:

"Now, concerning the state of the soul between death and the resurrection—Behold, it has been made known unto me by an angel, that the spirits of all men, as soon as they are departed from this mortal body, yea, the spirits of all men, whether they be good or evil, are taken home to that God who gave them life. And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of those who are righteous are received into a state of happiness, which is called paradise, a state of rest, a state of peace, where they shall rest from all their troubles and from all care, and sorrow. And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evil—for behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their house—and these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil. Now this is the state of the souls of the wicked, yea, in darkness, and a state of awful, fearful looking for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them; thus they remain in this state, as well as the righteous in paradise, until the time of their resurrection." (Book of Mormon | Alma 40:11-14)

add to that D&C 138, 76, and 137 and I think it would give a good picture of the LDS perspective.