Popular Post MiserereNobis Posted September 24, 2015 Popular Post Posted September 24, 2015 For those who are interested, here is the text of the Holy Father's address: http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/24/politics/pope-francis-congress-speech/index.html I thought he did a great job -- his tone was very calm and fatherly, even as he said things that both parties agree and disagree with. 6
TheSkepticChristian Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 For those who are interested, here is the text of the Holy Father's address: http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/24/politics/pope-francis-congress-speech/index.html I thought he did a great job -- his tone was very calm and fatherly, even as he said things that both parties agree and disagree with. Pope Francis is the only Pope we know that received a prayer and blessing from the First Presidency. "On behalf of the leadership and members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we extend our warmest wishes to His Holiness Pope Francis and pray he will feel the peace of the Lord as he serves as pontiff of the Catholic Church"http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/first-president-offers-warmest-wishes-pope-francis So I hope my fellow LDS take his words seriously 3
DJBrown Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 Pope Francis is the only Pope we know that received a prayer and blessing from the First Presidency. "On behalf of the leadership and members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we extend our warmest wishes to His Holiness Pope Francis and pray he will feel the peace of the Lord as he serves as pontiff of the Catholic Church"http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/first-president-offers-warmest-wishes-pope-francis So I hope my fellow LDS take his words seriously This does not necessarily suggest that anything he teaches is correct. We are to pray for our enemies. The Pope is not our enemy. But praying for him does not mean LDS necessarily need to heed the Pope's message.
why me Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) I don't think that he wrote this speech himself. But he didn't mention the plight of the christians in syria and iraq. Nor did he mention muslim extremism which has been reponsible for the bombing of churches and the rape of christian women. But he did mention extremism in general. And there were a lot of platitudes in his speech. But not much substance. For example: I will end my visit to your country in Philadelphia, where I will take part in the World Meeting of Families. It is my wish that throughout my visit the family should be a recurrent theme. How essential the family has been to the building of this country! And how worthy it remains of our support and encouragement! Yet I cannot hide my concern for the family, which is threatened, perhaps as never before, from within and without. Fundamental relationships are being called into question, as is the very basis of marriage and the family. I can only reiterate the importance and, above all, the richness and the beauty of family life. Why not just call it for what it is: gay marriage . Why be afraid to name the problem? He hedged his bets throughout the speech by giving hiding messages instead of straight words. Edited September 24, 2015 by why me
Popular Post halconero Posted September 24, 2015 Popular Post Posted September 24, 2015 I don't think that he wrote this speech himself. But he didn't mention the plight of the christians in syria and iraq. Nor did he mention muslim extremism which has been reponsible for the bombing of churches and the rape of christian women. But he did mention extremism in general. And there were a lot of platitudes in his speech. But not much substance. For example: I will end my visit to your country in Philadelphia, where I will take part in the World Meeting of Families. It is my wish that throughout my visit the family should be a recurrent theme. How essential the family has been to the building of this country! And how worthy it remains of our support and encouragement! Yet I cannot hide my concern for the family, which is threatened, perhaps as never before, from within and without. Fundamental relationships are being called into question, as is the very basis of marriage and the family. I can only reiterate the importance and, above all, the richness and the beauty of family life. Why not just call it for what it is: gay marriage . Why be afraid to name the problem? He hedged his bets throughout the speech by giving hiding messages instead of straight words. Why limit it to gay marriage? Divorce is current issue which calls into question fundamental relationships. The fact that people my age aren't even marrying as much anymore, but entering into domestic partnerships instead calls into question the fundamental relationship. 8
Ahab Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 I don't think that he wrote this speech himself. But he didn't mention the plight of the christians in syria and iraq. Nor did he mention muslim extremism which has been reponsible for the bombing of churches and the rape of christian women. But he did mention extremism in general. And there were a lot of platitudes in his speech. But not much substance.For example:I will end my visit to your country in Philadelphia, where I will take part in the World Meeting of Families. It is my wish that throughout my visit the family should be a recurrent theme. How essential the family has been to the building of this country! And how worthy it remains of our support and encouragement! Yet I cannot hide my concern for the family, which is threatened, perhaps as never before, from within and without. Fundamental relationships are being called into question, as is the very basis of marriage and the family. I can only reiterate the importance and, above all, the richness and the beauty of family life.Why not just call it for what it is: gay marriage . Why be afraid to name the problem? He hedged his bets throughout the speech by giving hiding messages instead of straight words."A soft voice turneth away wrath" came to my mind. It's called tact. Not something I am an expert with myself but it is usually more effective than brow beating from a pulpit.Our Lord's apostles are similarly tactful, as we often see and hear during our conference broadcasts, and while the pope is not an apostle he still is a very wise man who knows how to speak effectively to get his points across. I noticed how many were softened in Congress as they listened to him. Hopefully it will yield some good results for all of us. 2
rockpond Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 I don't think that he wrote this speech himself. But he didn't mention the plight of the christians in syria and iraq. Nor did he mention muslim extremism which has been reponsible for the bombing of churches and the rape of christian women. But he did mention extremism in general. And there were a lot of platitudes in his speech. But not much substance. For example: I will end my visit to your country in Philadelphia, where I will take part in the World Meeting of Families. It is my wish that throughout my visit the family should be a recurrent theme. How essential the family has been to the building of this country! And how worthy it remains of our support and encouragement! Yet I cannot hide my concern for the family, which is threatened, perhaps as never before, from within and without. Fundamental relationships are being called into question, as is the very basis of marriage and the family. I can only reiterate the importance and, above all, the richness and the beauty of family life. Why not just call it for what it is: gay marriage . Why be afraid to name the problem? He hedged his bets throughout the speech by giving hiding messages instead of straight words. Perhaps he wasn't referring to gay marriage. Not everyone sees gay marriage as a threat to the family. 1
The Nehor Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) Pope Francis is the only Pope we know that received a prayer and blessing from the First Presidency. "On behalf of the leadership and members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we extend our warmest wishes to His Holiness Pope Francis and pray he will feel the peace of the Lord as he serves as pontiff of the Catholic Church"http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/first-president-offers-warmest-wishes-pope-francisSo I hope my fellow LDS take his words seriouslyIf that is a blessing it is one of the most lukewarm blessings in history. Saying you will pray for someone can be anything from a kindly sentiment to passive aggressive patronization. Edited September 24, 2015 by The Nehor 3
Avatar4321 Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 It was an elegant speech. I wasn't too impressed though. My one question is why didn't he mention Christ at all? 1
why me Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 Why limit it to gay marriage? Divorce is current issue which calls into question fundamental relationships. The fact that people my age aren't even marrying as much anymore, but entering into domestic partnerships instead calls into question the fundamental relationship.He didn't seem to take the bull by the horns. He hedged his bets in not wanting to offend anyone. And he succeeded. He should name the issues and not generalize them in opaque words.
why me Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 Perhaps he wasn't referring to gay marriage. Not everyone sees gay marriage as a threat to the family.You don't seem to know the catholic church. Of course a part of it was directed at gay marriage but he didn't name it. I don't think that certain people would have liked it if he did. But then again, he didn't take a stand on much substance. It was all hidden in vague words, no punch to his words. Very political correct.
why me Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) "A soft voice turneth away wrath" came to my mind. It's called tact. Not something I am an expert with myself but it is usually more effective than brow beating from a pulpit.Our Lord's apostles are similarly tactful, as we often see and hear during our conference broadcasts, and while the pope is not an apostle he still is a very wise man who knows how to speak effectively to get his points across. I noticed how many were softened in Congress as they listened to him. Hopefully it will yield some good results for all of us.The media is very friendly to him. One can read much in his speech because it was very general. So one can see anything he or she wants in the speech. A religious leader needs to lead his flock with direct language. Spell it out and get the world humming. Just name the issues and convince people. Not be a leader for all seasons as he just did. I would hope that lds leaders can take the bull by the horns like they did in the proclamation of the family. It was direct and spelled it all out. Also, he is not a capitalist but he should name the system and go for it. Edited September 24, 2015 by why me
rockpond Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 You don't seem to know the catholic church. Of course a part of it was directed at gay marriage but he didn't name it. I don't think that certain people would have liked it if he did. But then again, he didn't take a stand on much substance. It was all hidden in vague words, no punch to his words. Very political correct. I'm aware of the Catholic Church's position and their past involvement (sometimes with our Church) in campaigning against gay marriage. But Pope Francis seems to have taken a much softer approach to the subject. One of the reasons he's a very popular Pope. 1
TheSkepticChristian Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 This does not necessarily suggest that anything he teaches is correct. We are to pray for our enemies. The Pope is not our enemy. But praying for him does not mean LDS necessarily need to heed the Pope's message. I didn't say that, but please notice that "pray he will feel the peace of the Lord as he serves as pontiff" = "pray he will feel the peace of the Lord as he teaches" Popes teach, that is their job, to teach. Still, what a coincidence that Pope Francis is the only Pope we know that received a prayer and blessing from the First Presidency.
The Nehor Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 As to this being the only "blessing":"My beloved brothers and sisters, on behalf of the worldwide membership of this Church, I extend to our Catholic neighbors and friends our heartfelt sympathy at this time of great sorrow. Pope John Paul II has worked tirelessly to advance the cause of Christianity, to lift the burdens of the poor, and to speak fearlessly in behalf of moral values and human dignity. He will be greatly missed, particularly by the very many who have looked to him for leadership." President Hinckley, April 2005 General Conference
Russell C McGregor Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 Perhaps he wasn't referring to gay marriage. Not everyone sees gay marriage as a threat to the family. Agreed. Not everyone sees what's right in front of their faces.
Teancum Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 This does not necessarily suggest that anything he teaches is correct. We are to pray for our enemies. The Pope is not our enemy. But praying for him does not mean LDS necessarily need to heed the Pope's message.Well he sure has a leg up on the LDS leadership these days.
Teancum Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 "A soft voice turneth away wrath" came to my mind. It's called tact. Not something I am an expert with myself but it is usually more effective than brow beating from a pulpit.Our Lord's apostles are similarly tactful, as we often see and hear during our conference broadcasts, and while the pope is not an apostle he still is a very wise man who knows how to speak effectively to get his points across. I noticed how many were softened in Congress as they listened to him. Hopefully it will yield some good results for all of us.Don't Catholics view the pope as the vicar of Christ...and apostle of sorts? If not an apostle he sure is getting a lot more air time than the LDS leaders who claim to be apostles. 1
Russell C McGregor Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 Don't Catholics view the pope as the vicar of Christ...and apostle of sorts? If not an apostle he sure is getting a lot more air time than the LDS leaders who claim to be apostles. How can that possibly be relevant to anything? How much "air time" did Peter, James and John get in Rome in the 1st century? If we apply your logic, Nero must have been more of an apostle than Peter, because he got more "air time." 3
The Nehor Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 Well he sure has a leg up on the LDS leadership these days.As we all know Jesus explained that his followers would be popular and praised by the world. President Monson be slacking. 1
Teancum Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 How can that possibly be relevant to anything? How much "air time" did Peter, James and John get in Rome in the 1st century? If we apply your logic, Nero must have been more of an apostle than Peter, because he got more "air time."The times are a changing Russell. The LDS church which claims to be the church of Jesus Christ has been on earth nigh on 200 years. Yet it has at best maybe 6 millions active members. It's influence overall on the human race is insignificant really. Yet the leader of the largest apostate Christian sect is at the cutting edge of world issues and can get air time with the U.S. Congress. Maybe this means nothing at all. Maybe the devil is better and PR than God is. Whatever it is it is amazing to me.
Teancum Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 As we all know Jesus explained that his followers would be popular and praised by the world. President Monson be slacking.You bet. When the church is growing rapidly that is a sign of its truth. When it is a hiss and a by word and insignificant on the world stage that proves it is true.How convenient .
The Nehor Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 You bet. When the church is growing rapidly that is a sign of its truth. When it is a hiss and a by word and insignificant on the world stage that proves it is true.How convenient .It is almost as Though neither state is evidence for truthfulness. 1
jkwilliams Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 It is almost as Though neither state is evidence for truthfulness. Well said. I admit I've often thought it was funny that some people get all excited about what they see as increased growth and visibility for the church as somehow validating the church's mission and destiny. At the same time, when things don't go well, that's see as validation as well.
Russell C McGregor Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 The times are a changing Russell. The LDS church which claims to be the church of Jesus Christ has been on earth nigh on 200 years. Yet it has at best maybe 6 millions active members. It's influence overall on the human race is insignificant really. Yet the leader of the largest apostate Christian sect is at the cutting edge of world issues and can get air time with the U.S. Congress. Maybe this means nothing at all. Maybe the devil is better and PR than God is.Whatever it is it is amazing to me. You find it "amazing" that a church with approximately 80 times our membership is more visible than we are? I find it to be the default assumption. What is amazing is that a church as small as ours doesn't disappear completely.
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