Papal Address To Congress

[saemo]

Catholic doctrine is neither politically left or right. What Pope Francis said in his address is Catholic doctrine. And addresses very real issues of Christian morality. It is the politicians who divide morality and faith into agendas and ideologies of liberal and conservative, but the Catholic church view is that of conveying one truth.

Edited September 25, 2015 by saemo

[saemo]

Please respond to post 42. One of the things I don't like is big money in politics, but our LDS church donated at least $189,903.58 (non-monetary) to a political campaign. I will forgive my church leaders for that, but please don't be a hypocrite .

 

As for Pope Francis, he is simply teaching Science and compassion for the poor.

 

Shep Smith (Fox News Host) said that the Pope's agenda is not political. He said,

Ah, poor Shep Smith. During his reporting on the conclave that elected Pope Francis, he referred to Vatican City as "pope land". That has not endeared him to Catholics.

[The Nehor]

Need I ask, where is the separation of Church and State?  When some high school teem has prayer at the 50 yard line the world flies off its hinges but when the Pope tells congress how to legislate it gets rave reviews.  What if it were President Monson addressing congress?  The world would be coming to an end.  Go Figure

 

The Pope is also a political leader of his own small theocratic state.

[The Nehor]

Ah, poor Shep Smith. During his reporting on the conclave that elected Pope Francis, he referred to Vatican City as "pope land". That has not endeared him to Catholics.

 

They should embrace it as the world embraced the Popemobile.

[carbon dioxide]

The Pope is also a political leader of his own small theocratic state.

Yes and since the Vatican is its own state with its own immigration rules, I think the US should enact immigration law that is the same as Vatican law.

[rodheadlee]

Yes and since the Vatican is its own state with its own immigration rules, I think the US should enact immigration law that is the same as Vatican law.

and that is?

[carbon dioxide]

and that is?

Some of it is found http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/sep/24/pope-call-immigration-unlikely-change-debate/

 

Anyway I am going to jump off this as I don't want to go down the political road on the thread.

Edited September 25, 2015 by carbon dioxide

[carbon dioxide]

You math is in error. I don't count the inactive LDS.

I have been inactive in periods of my life for various reasons but that does not mean my views of the Church changed.  I do believe the Church could be more specific in its membership.  If a person has not been to church in a few years, they go into a separate category but a number of "inactives" should be counted.

[thesometimesaint]

Where are the resident board separation of church and state activists?  Just curious.

 

I'm here. While the Pope the leader of the Catholic church he is also a head of state. Vatican city is a country.

[Yirgacheffe]

That is not all. Many conservative, social catholics are also a little disappointed. Not everyone is pleased with a political pope who takes a stance on secular issues that seem just a little too liberal in thought. Of course, a pope should be concerned with the spiritual direction of people that may lead them away from god. More time with god than with other secular issues that may distract the spiritual development of humanity.

Your post here remind sme of "anti-Mormons" who call the leadership of the LDS church nothing more than businessmen.

[TheSkepticChristian]

Our Church stated, "Some, however, have mistakenly asserted that churches should not ever be involved in politics when moral issues are involved.  In fact, churches and religious organizations are well within their constitutional rights to speak out and be engaged in the many moral and ethical problems facing society.  While the Church does not endorse candidates or platforms, it does reserve the right to speak out on important issues." 

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-responds-to-same-sex-marriage-votes

 

Climate Change and Poverty are moral issues that Christians need to worry about, and Global Warming theory is a scientific theory, not a political theory. Pope Francis is talking about important issues, not liberal politics. 

 

Climate scientists Dr. Calvin DeWitt, Dr. Kerry Emanuel, Dr. Barry Bickmore, Dr. Richard Alley, and Dr. Katharine Hayhoe are conservative Republicans, and they also agree that Climate Change is a moral issue. 

Edited September 25, 2015 by TheSkepticChristian

[Yirgacheffe]

However, there may be a difference if a church leader addresses congress. The pope speech was void of mentioning christ. One reason for this was because he addressed congress. I am sure that his ghost writer knew this very well. The speech was a good secular speech but it wasn't a religious speech. I am sure that lds church leaders can also give a good secular speech which also names secular worries and make a hit. But a christian leader should not forget god and christ in her and his speech. However, such a speech about divorce, abortion, living a moral code, birth control etc, would go down like a led balloon. Thus, we have the pope's speech in congress devoid of catholic dogma.

Why should the pope tell congress about Catholic dogma?

[thesometimesaint]

Our Church said, "Some, however, have mistakenly asserted that churches should not ever be involved in politics when moral issues are involved.  In fact, churches and religious organizations are well within their constitutional rights to speak out and be engaged in the many moral and ethical problems facing society.  While the Church does not endorse candidates or platforms, it does reserve the right to speak out on important issues." 

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-responds-to-same-sex-marriage-votes

 

Climate Change and Poverty are moral issues, and Global Warming theory is a scientific theory, not a political theory. 

 

Other countries don't necessarily have the US separation of Church and State. I agree that the Church has every right to speak out on moral issues. Even try to persuade others to agree with its position. What we can't do in the US is dictate law.

[why me]

Your post here remind sme of "anti-Mormons" who call the leadership of the LDS church nothing more than businessmen.

I see nothing of the kind in my post. I think that I gave a good analysis. Read it again. I did not give my opinion at all about what I believe. I stated what others may think. The pope gave a speech where liberal issues were somewhat named and conservative issues were opaque. This was done on purpose. If the pope speaks on secular issues and only secular issues he may be missing an opportunity to speak about catholic moral teachings: Abortion is wrong, same sex marriage is a threat to the traditional family, birth control is wrong etc. But he ignored such things because he knows that most people do not want to hear such things. Better to speak about poverty and love with a mixture of liberal social thinking. 

 

I don't care what he said but many conservative social catholics do not like the change in direction.

Try not to read my mind but you can address the issues in my post.

 

However here is a newsreport about his speech in the UN. I see no  mention  of jesus in this report. It may be good for people to also remember jesus as the savior and spend just a little time telling us about climate change and poverty. And if he does do so, with such secular issues, he can create a  political manifesto that puts christ's social teachings as an example for all to follow.

 

http://nypost.com/2015/09/25/pope-francis-at-the-un/

Edited September 25, 2015 by why me

[Yirgacheffe]

I see nothing of the kind in my post. I think that I gave a good analysis. Read it again. I did not give my opinion at all about what I believe. I stated what others may think. The pope gave a speech where liberal issues were somewhat named and conservative issues were opaque. This was done on purpose. If the pope speaks on secular issues and only secular issues he may be missing an opportunity to speak about catholic moral teachings: Abortion is wrong, same sex marriage is a threat to the traditional family, birth control is wrong etc. But he ignored such things because he knows that most people do not want to hear such things. Better to speak about poverty and love with a mixture of liberal social thinking. 

 

I don't care what he said but many conservative social catholics do not like the change in direction.

Try not to read my mind but you can address the issues in my post.

Well you are reading the popes mind when you state why he spoke about the things he did.  And why should he be telling the US congress about Catholic beliefs in the first place? 

[jkwilliams]

Well you are reading the popes mind when you state why he spoke about the things he did.  And why should he be telling the US congress about Catholic beliefs in the first place? 

 

Funny, when Mormons complain about what their leaders should or shouldn't say, they're criticized as being disloyal ark-steadiers.

[why me]

Well you are reading the popes mind when you state why he spoke about the things he did.  And why should he be telling the US congress about Catholic beliefs in the first place? 

I read his words and question them. I can only go by what he says. When he speaks words, people analyze them. That is what I did. Again, address my issues and do not give such statements that add nothing to the discussion as above. I also put links to back up my opinions and statements. It is called dialogue. This is a dialogue board and not a one or two sentence flame board.

 

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/355073/conservative-catholics-gop-and-pope-nicholas-frankovich

 

I still haven't heard the pope mention jesus. Why? What is wrong in mentioning jesus? I think that it is obvious why he isn't. But is it good for a pope to not to mention him?

 

 

I am on limited and so I am out of posts...soon. Only one left. Such is life of a limited person.

Edited September 25, 2015 by why me

[thesometimesaint]

James Madison is rolling over in his grave. He didn't even want a Office of the Chaplain in the US government.. Let alone a prayer before Congressional meetings. Personally I have no problem with any religious person being asked to speak to Congress. But insist on keeping my government secular. The world has seen enough of where people, in public office, put their religion before the state. IE; Kim Davis.

[Teancum]

For such people, generally speaking, separation of church and state only needs to enforced when a spokesperson for a particular religion espouses conservative principles and traditional moral values. But if a spokesperson for a particular religion espouses liberal principles and progressive moral values, he or she is given a pass because such values are largely embraced by the secular humanist/atheist community, therefore the religious spokesperson is seen as an ally in the cause of a creating Godless state.

There are so many things wrong with the premises outlined in this post both for what is happening with the pope as well as an us vs them mentality that it borders on sad and even pathetic.

And oh by the way if you think humanist/atheists are setting the agenda these days Google to see how many people % wise would never vote for an atheist running for president.

[carbon dioxide]

Our Church stated, "Some, however, have mistakenly asserted that churches should not ever be involved in politics when moral issues are involved.  In fact, churches and religious organizations are well within their constitutional rights to speak out and be engaged in the many moral and ethical problems facing society.  While the Church does not endorse candidates or platforms, it does reserve the right to speak out on important issues." 

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-responds-to-same-sex-marriage-votes

 

Climate Change and Poverty are moral issues that Christians need to worry about, and Global Warming theory is a scientific theory, not a political theory. Pope Francis is talking about important issues, not liberal politics. 

 

Climate scientists Dr. Calvin DeWitt, Dr. Kerry Emanuel, Dr. Barry Bickmore, Dr. Richard Alley, and Dr. Katharine Hayhoe are conservative Republicans, and they also agree that Climate Change is a moral issue. 

The climate has been changing since the world began.  Plus if the end times events are based in part on a changed climate, I am all for it.   Poverty is an important issue.  The debate is what should be done to deal with it.  If it means bigger government and forced wealth redistribution, I am against it.  Some of what the Pope advocates is contradictory.  He would like to help the poor yet he wants more to be done on global warming (which means higher taxes and things costing more) and more immigrants to be brought in which only requires more taxes to be collected to pay for it.  But perhaps that is the ultimate poverty program.  Make everyone poor and then everyone will be equal.

[TheSkepticChristian]

The climate has been changing since the world began.  

 

Really? You won a Nobel prize!  You are the new Einstein! Congratulations for your great discovery. 

 

 

which means higher taxes and things costing more

 

That is politics, I won't get into a political discussion. 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2015 by TheSkepticChristian

[The Nehor]

Yes and since the Vatican is its own state with its own immigration rules, I think the US should enact immigration law that is the same as Vatican law.

 

You do realize that there is no moral, logistical, or even rational reason to expect the immigration laws of a large nation like the United States and a tiny quasi-nation barely deserving the term that consists of about 110 acres to be in any way comparable?

[Storm Rider]

You do realize that there is no moral, logistical, or even rational reason to expect the immigration laws of a large nation like the United States and a tiny quasi-nation barely deserving the term that consists of about 110 acres to be in any way comparable?

 

In principle or in production?  I see no reason for two countries, regardless of size, to have a similar constitution and laws.  What does size have to do with it?

[Storm Rider]

Really? You won a Nobel prize!  You are the new Einstein! Congratulations for your great discovery. 

 

 

That is politics, I won't get into a political discussion. 

 

 

 

Actually, I think it is economics rather than politics.  That is part of the problem with the pope's admonitions - the economics make no sense.  Although I appreciate his voice, I don't think anyone needs to follow without thinking about the consequences of our policies.  

[rodheadlee]

The Pope talked about Christ to the children in Harlem. Here is a quote from the Washington Post. "Today we want to keep dreaming. We celebrate all the opportunities which enable you, and us adults, not to lose the hope of a better world with greater possibilities. I know that one of the dreams of your parents and teachers is that you can grow up and be happy. It is always good to see children smiling. Here I see you smiling. Keep smiling and help bring joy to everyone you meet.

Because Jesus is joy, and he wants to help us to feel that joy every day of our lives.

But he warned them about someone who wants to steal their dreams:

Who is always sowing mistrust? What’s his name? The devil! The devil is always sowing sadness, because he doesn’t want us to be happy. He doesn’t want us dreaming.

But where there’s joy, Jesus is present."