Mormons Hoarding Against "the End Of The World"?

[Stargazer]

I don't know where you live, but here in the SF Bay Area of California, the sources of water are in the mountains, well over 100-200 miles away. If those pipes were shut off for even a few days, the situation would become dire very quickly. This does not even account for the fact that the largely urban population wouldn't know how to dig wells, etc.

I have a 70 gallon water heater but none of that would last long.

Yes, we are so interdependent as a society that we will need help from FEMA or its equivalent.

I'm luckier than most, I have a country property near a reliable water source, but it's still 278 miles away, and in a major catastrophe I probably couldn't get there.

Maybe catastrophe will strike during one of my frequent visits.:-)

 

In some parts of the country water isn't that big a problem -- like where I live, in western Washington.  We have lots of water, easily available. 

 

In a really big quake, however, pipes will break and roads will become impassable, so transporting the water where it's needed will be a problem.  There is an artesian well (actually several) in downtown Olympia, WA, and these just flow constantly and are good water.  There are plenty of lakes around, too.

 

I wouldn't want to be in Seattle in case of The Big One, however.

[The Nehor]

I can promise you no individual in this household drinks a gallon of anything a day.  Collectively we probably do no more than 2.   One can cut back as well for survival.  When water is scarce, drinking is priority 1.   I also have a good water filter that will filter out several thousand gallons.  So I can find some dirty rain water, run it through the filter and it will be clean enough to drink. 

 

In the barebones survival scenario so many envision drinking water consumption will go up. Without climate control (air conditioning) people will lose a lot more water. If food is scarce water consumption also goes up. If you factor in water for cooking a gallon per person is actually pretty conservative.

[The Nehor]

One can assume that a certain % of the population will riot and die out.  Competition for resources will lessen and one can take their food since they will not need it anymore. 

 

Since most people can survive less then a week on the food they have on hand that won't add up to much unless the disaster kills quickly and the food survives. This is why zombies are so popular in survival scenarios. If you accept the zombie as plausible the huge reserves of food still being around with few human survivors makes sense.

 

If people have time to riot most likely they are already hungry and the food is gone. Same for those who imagine they can live off of hunting. They somehow think the people starving in the cities are not going to disperse everywhere in a desperate search for food and kill off all the game (and most of the foodstuffs that grow naturally). Even if half the people are dead we will run out of food very quickly.

[filovirus]

All are welcome to join me in OR for the end of the world. Plenty of water here. Just bring a pump filter that removes viruses/bacteria/parasites. Illnesses will be a major concern.

[The Nehor]

All are welcome to join me in OR for the end of the world. Plenty of water here. Just bring a pump filter that removes viruses/bacteria/parasites. Illnesses will be a major concern.

 

I am planning to be caught up in the air to meet the Savior. Is that in Oregon?

[filovirus]

Pretty enough to be, but Eugene will scare off all the angels.

[hagoth7]

Most faithful LDS don't fear the apocalypse. In fact they want it to happen. 

Perhaps that is the reason why some want war? I don't know.

Apocalypse doesn't mean war.

 

It means "uncovering", per Wikipedia "translated literally from Greek, is a disclosure of knowledge, i.e., a lifting of the veil or revelation."

 

As such, of course we should want apocalypse to happen, early and often.

Edited September 12, 2015 by hagoth7

[bcuzbcuz]

Here: Some Mormons stocking up amid fears that doomsday could come this month

 

 

> At American Fork’s Thrive Life, which sells mostly freeze-dried food, sales have shot up by “500 percent or more in the past couple of months,” says customer-service representative Ricardo Aranda. “There is a sense of urgency, like something is up. A lot of people are mentioning things about September, like a financial collapse.”

 

Have sales in weapons also shown a similar increase?

[Rain]

Are the sales related to fear for end times or response to calls for banning guns after shootings?

[carbon dioxide]

In the barebones survival scenario so many envision drinking water consumption will go up. Without climate control (air conditioning) people will lose a lot more water. If food is scarce water consumption also goes up. If you factor in water for cooking a gallon per person is actually pretty conservative.

Depends on how much I eat.  As long as I have one good meal a day, that is enough to survive on.  I can tell you right now if I was go cook a dinner for my family, I will not need 4 gallons of water.  For example I just looked at my canned potatoes I would need just 4 cups of water to make mashed potatoes for all of us.  Or I can make 6 servings of one of my soup with 6.5 cups.  Air conditioning is only needed in summer time.  What about winter?  Now yes I will run through my water fast if I use it to wash clothes, bath, and other things not essential for survival but for just survival, we could cook and drink off 4 gallons a day with not much of a problem with 16 cups per gallon.

Edited September 12, 2015 by carbon dioxide

[The Nehor]

Depends on how much I eat.  As long as I have one good meal a day, that is enough to survive on.  I can tell you right now if I was go cook a dinner for my family, I will not need 4 gallons of water.  For example I just looked at my canned potatoes I would need just 4 cups of water to make mashed potatoes for all of us.  Or I can make 6 servings of one of my soup with 6.5 cups.  Air conditioning is only needed in summer time.  What about winter?  Now yes I will run through my water fast if I use it to wash clothes, bath, and other things not essential for survival but for just survival, we could cook and drink off 4 gallons a day with not much of a problem with 16 cups per gallon.

 

You can survive off one meal a day for a while but not for extended periods unless it is a huge meal that will take much more then 4 cups of water mixed with potatos. Your family will also need to drink in addition to the water used for cooking.

 

I had mashed potatos for lunch and it took 2 cups of water to make enough just for me and I am definitely not full for the whole day. I could survive no problem but in a survival situation I will probably need to be physically active too. Either way I am digging into my fat reserves if that is all I eat.

[rodheadlee]

Don't forget water for washing the dishes. Hand washing clothes takes about 3 times a much water to rinse as to wash. Be very careful how much soap you use, sudsy ammonia can be used with little rinsing

[carbon dioxide]

You can survive off one meal a day for a while but not for extended periods unless it is a huge meal that will take much more then 4 cups of water mixed with potatos. Your family will also need to drink in addition to the water used for cooking.

 

I had mashed potatos for lunch and it took 2 cups of water to make enough just for me and I am definitely not full for the whole day. I could survive no problem but in a survival situation I will probably need to be physically active too. Either way I am digging into my fat reserves if that is all I eat.

You need to get the potatoes I have.  2 cups of water for 1 cup of potatoes and it makes a good amount.  Plus I would not eat just that.  I think if done right my family could drink and eat off no more than 3 gallons a day if we needed to.   Now if I had the money, I would buy a solar powered generator and one of these devices that makes water from the humidity in the air.  That would add more water.   For those who live in high humidity places, they could have continual water to drink

[Monster]

Its a lousy God who teaches his children with destruction and suffering. We constantly ascribe behaviors to God that we would never allow in ourselves. 

[Bobbieaware]

Its a lousy God who teaches his children with destruction and suffering. We constantly ascribe behaviors to God that we would never allow in ourselves.

So I presume you don't believe the Book of Mormon account in 3 Nephi that testifies the Lord caused a widespread destruction of many wicked ancient Americans just prior to the Lord's appearance to the more righteous portion of the Nephites?

[Bobbieaware]

Here: Some Mormons stocking up amid fears that doomsday could come this month

 

> Mixing a brew of biblical prophecies, the Hebrew calendar, a volatile economy, world politics, and astronomical occurrences, hordes of Utahns have become convinced that calamitous events are imminent — maybe by month’s end — and are taking every precaution.

 

> They are called “preppers” and are buying up food-storage kits, flashlights, blankets and tents. Some are even bracing to leave their homes, if need be.

 

> At American Fork’s Thrive Life, which sells mostly freeze-dried food, sales have shot up by “500 percent or more in the past couple of months,” says customer-service representative Ricardo Aranda. “There is a sense of urgency, like something is up. A lot of people are mentioning things about September, like a financial collapse.”

 

==I know a lot of people who are concerned about provident living generally (and have been working on it for a long time), but not about a collapse in September.

 

> Here’s how the doomsday scenario plays out: History, some preppers believe, is divided into seven-year periods — like the Hebrew notion of “shemitah” or Sabbath. In 2008, seven years after 9/11, the stock market crashed, a harbinger of a devastating recession. It’s been seven years since then and Wall Street has been fluctuating wildly in recent weeks in the wake of China devaluing its currency.

 

> Thus, they believe, starting Sept. 13, the beginning of the Jewish High Holy Days, there will be another, even larger financial crisis, based on the United States’ ”wickedness.” That will launch the “days of tribulation” — as described in the Bible.

 

> Sept. 28 will see a full, red or “blood moon” and a major earthquake in or near Utah. Some anticipate an invasion by U.N. troops, technological disruptions and decline, chaos and hysteria.

 

==This all strikes me as rather cobbled together and hokey.

 

> Some of these speculations stem from Julie Rowe’s books, “A Greater Tomorrow: My Journey Beyond the Veil” and “The Time Is Now.”

 

> Rowe, a Mormon mother of three, published the books in 2014 to detail a “near-death experience” in 2004, when the author says she visited the afterlife and was shown visions of the past and future.

 

> Though Rowe rarely gives specific dates for predicted events, she did describe in a Fox News Radio interview “cities of light,” including scores of white tents where people will live in the mountains and sometimes be fed heavenly “manna.” She she saw a “bomb from Libya landing in Israel, but Iran will take credit.”

 

...

 

> For the past year, the popular writer has been sharing her experience and visions at Mormon venues nationwide, drawing crowds of eager — and worried — listeners. Her two books have sold more than 20,000 copies apiece.

 

> In a rare move, officials with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints sent a memo to administrators and teachers in the Church Educational System, saying, that although Sister Rowe is an active member of the LDS Church, “her book is not endorsed by the church and should not be recommended to students or used as a resource in teaching them. The experiences . do not necessarily reflect church doctrine or they may distort doctrine.”

 

==I'm glad the Church is taking these steps.  I believe the scriptural prophecies regarding the latter days, but I don't believe the Saints need to look to self-appointed folks like Julie Rowe for guidance on such important matters, particularly where what she says is not reflected in the counsel from the Brethren (and, apparently to some extent, not reflected in the doctrines of the Church).

 

> The late Mormon apostle Boyd K. Packer said in a 2011 LDS General Conference that the “end” was not near and urged young Latter-day Saints to plan to live long, productive lives.

 

> “You can look forward to doing it right.” Packer said, “ — getting married, having a family, seeing your children and grandchildren, maybe even great-grandchildren.”

 

==Here's a link to Elder Packer's October 2011 General Conference talk: Counsel to Youth

 

==Here's the key bit:

 

Sometimes you might be tempted to think as I did from time to time in my youth: “The way things are going, the world’s going to be over with. The end of the world is going to come before I get to where I should be.” Not so! You can look forward to doing it right—getting married, having a family, seeing your children and grandchildren, maybe even great-grandchildren.

 

If you will follow these principles, you will be watched over and protected and you yourself will know by the promptings of the Holy Ghost which way to go, for “by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.” I promise you that it will be so and invoke a blessing upon you, our precious youth, in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

 

==Well said.  The Church's counsel regarding provident living remains.  I believe we can and ought to be doing more to live in accordance with the doctrine and counsel we have received.  But the hysteria described in this story is, I think, misplaced.  And to the extent it has been caused by Julie Rowe, I hope she becomes more circumspect in her public statements.

 

Thanks,

 

-Smac

How does the following fit into your thinking?

Too often we bask in our comfortable complacency and rationalize that the ravages of war, economic disaster, famine, and earthquake cannot happen here. Those who believe this are either not acquainted with the revelations of the Lord, or they do not believe them. Those who smugly think these calamities will not happen, that they somehow will be set aside because of the righteousness of the Saints, are deceived and will rue the day they harbored such a delusion.

The Lord has warned and forewarned us against a day of great tribulation and given us counsel, through His servants, on how we can be prepared for these difficult times. Have we heeded His counsel? (Ezra Taft Benson, 1980)

[smac97]

How does the following fit into your thinking?

Too often we bask in our comfortable complacency and rationalize that the ravages of war, economic disaster, famine, and earthquake cannot happen here. Those who believe this are either not acquainted with the revelations of the Lord, or they do not believe them. Those who smugly think these calamities will not happen, that they somehow will be set aside because of the righteousness of the Saints, are deceived and will rue the day they harbored such a delusion.

The Lord has warned and forewarned us against a day of great tribulation and given us counsel, through His servants, on how we can be prepared for these difficult times. Have we heeded His counsel? (Ezra Taft Benson, 1980)

 

Well, I said this: "The Church's counsel regarding provident living remains.  I believe we can and ought to be doing more to live in accordance with the doctrine and counsel we have received."

 

Thanks,

 

-Smac

[HappyJackWagon]

 

How does the following fit into your thinking?

Too often we bask in our comfortable complacency and rationalize that the ravages of war, economic disaster, famine, and earthquake cannot happen here. Those who believe this are either not acquainted with the revelations of the Lord, or they do not believe them. Those who smugly think these calamities will not happen, that they somehow will be set aside because of the righteousness of the Saints, are deceived and will rue the day they harbored such a delusion.

The Lord has warned and forewarned us against a day of great tribulation and given us counsel, through His servants, on how we can be prepared for these difficult times. Have we heeded His counsel? (Ezra Taft Benson, 1980)

I think there is plenty of room to err on either side of the preparedness equation. It would be foolish to think that nothing bad will ever happen but it would be equally foolish to think that everything bad will happen according to a Julie Rowe kind of timeline and the end is here NOW.

A lot of the preparedness efforts are a plecebo effect to help people feel comfortable and ready so they aren't living in fear. But the idea that anyone can adequately prepare for any situation is a bit silly. If my home is hit by an earthquake, a tornado, and a foreign invasion all on the same weekend, my rifle and 3 months of food storage may not guarantee my survival. On the other hand, an arsenal, 1 year supply probably wouldn't help much more. Hopefully I haven't gone into debt to buy the arsenal, the extra tents and 1 year supply of food.

[bluebell]

Its a lousy God who teaches his children with destruction and suffering. We constantly ascribe behaviors to God that we would never allow in ourselves. 

 

The principle is sound.  When we tell our kids not to do something, we usually have a negative consequence waiting if they don't obey.  As the disobedience gets worse, so do the consequences.  Society works the same way.  Break the law, and you will suffer. 

 

God is parenting on a much much grander scale than we are of course, and the similarities are there in principle only and not in practice.  Also, it would be wrong to assume that every time there is destruction and suffering that it was purposefully sent by God.  Some of that (probably most of it) is just the way this fallen world works.

[Sleeper Cell]

Its a lousy God who teaches his children with destruction and suffering. We constantly ascribe behaviors to God that we would never allow in ourselves. 

 

Yeah. Its not like he ever gave us a choice about whether or not we were willing to live in such a world.

 

 

BTW, isn’t a good deal of the destruction and suffering commonly blamed on God actually the natural and foreseeable consequences of our own behavior and/or that of our fellow men?  You know, the sort of behavior that God warned us against, but which we allow in ourselves, anyway.  

[pogi]

Someone just told me on Facebook that Pres. Monson's talk last sept. says that "the "laborers" don't want to scare the chickens (the saints) because we would stop being productive." and that's why the Brethren have not told us to prepare for all the calamities that Rowe is prophesying.

 

The faithful will be prepared because they've been paying attention, and that's all that matters.

 

That's right, and John Lennon said "I buried Paul" in Strawberry Fields Forever, because McCartney "blew his mind out in a car" (A Day in the Life) and was replaced by McCartney look alike, Billy Shears (Sgt Peppers), who was walking barefoot on the cover of Abey Road to symbolize Paul's death.  Can't you guys see that!!!

[Bobbieaware]

I think there is plenty of room to err on either side of the preparedness equation. It would be foolish to think that nothing bad will ever happen but it would be equally foolish to think that everything bad will happen according to a Julie Rowe kind of timeline and the end is here NOW.A lot of the preparedness efforts are a plecebo effect to help people feel comfortable and ready so they aren't living in fear. But the idea that anyone can adequately prepare for any situation is a bit silly. If my home is hit by an earthquake, a tornado, and a foreign invasion all on the same weekend, my rifle and 3 months of food storage may not guarantee my survival. On the other hand, an arsenal, 1 year supply probably wouldn't help much more. Hopefully I haven't gone into debt to buy the arsenal, the extra tents and 1 year supply of food.

What difference does it make? We're supposed to be fully prepared for the prophesied calamities of the last days whether Julie Rowe is correct in her timeline or not. And is it not true that if a member family prepares fully, in the manner set forth by our leaders, they will pretty much do most of the same things these 'preppers' are doing? Isn't it true the main difference between the preppers and the fully faithful LDS families, who are following the counsel to be fully prepared, is that the preppers are more fearful and believe the prophesied tribulations of the last days are going to come sooner rather than later, while the faithful families are less emotionally exercised because the Lord has promissed the faithful members that if they are prepared there's will be no need to fear?

Edited September 15, 2015 by Bobbieaware

[Sleeper Cell]

You need to get the potatoes I have.  2 cups of water for 1 cup of potatoes and it makes a good amount.  Plus I would not eat just that.  I think if done right my family could drink and eat off no more than 3 gallons a day if we needed to.   Now if I had the money, I would buy a solar powered generator and one of these devices that makes water from the humidity in the air.  That would add more water.   For those who live in high humidity places, they could have continual water to drink

 

Rather than just “think” your family could manage on 3 gallons of water a day, why not try it -- at least for a weekend (and preferably during the summer)?  Then you would know, one way or the other. In any case, it is a good idea to occasionally practice aspects of your personal family emergency plan.  If nothing else, doing so will help you improve it, and sometimes even reveal unforeseen deficiencies.

 

An embarrassing personal example.  When conducing my own very simple emergency evacuation exercise (based on a wildfire scenario), I actually mislaid my car keys, and couldn’t locate my spare.  Took me 15 minutes to find them.  Not the best thing to happen in the event of a real fire evacuation.

 

Solution.  I now keep a third set of car/house keys in my “Go bag” at all times.  (A “Go Bag” is a small, pre-packed carry bag or suitcase that would only take me seconds to grab as I ran out the door.  It contains the bare essentials and a few other items such as copies of a few important papers, a couple of family photos, etc.)  

[thesometimesaint]

Be prudent, resourceful, and realistic. No one can be prepared for every possible contingency. We can be prepared for what is likely to happen.

[HappyJackWagon]

 

What difference does it make? We're supposed to be fully prepared for the prophesied calamities of the last days whether Julie Rowe is correct in her timeline or not. And is it not true that if a member family prepares fully, in the manner set forth by our leaders, they will pretty much do most of the same things these 'preppers' are doing? Isn't it true the main difference between the preppers and the fully faithful LDS families, who are following the counsel to be fully prepared, is that the preppers are more fearful and believe the prophesied tribulations of the last days are going to come sooner rather than later, while the faithful families are less emotionally exercised because the Lord has promissed the faithful members that if they are prepared there's will be no need to fear?

 

Well, Julie Rowe is also very specific in the calamities that are supposed to happen. An earthquack from the gulf of mexico to the great lakes which cause the rivers to run backwards. A tsunami in Missouri? That's right, a TSUNAMI. ??? Should Missourians build an ark to truly be prepared for a TSUNAMI? That sounds pretty reasonable.

Yes, these preppers believe in very specific calamities and specific timelines. It is IMPOSSIBLE to be "fully prepared" for every potential threat. So if we are wise, prepare for the basics like the church has counseled, then there's nothing else we can do. There is no promise that the faithful will avoid the hardships and death of the calamitous end days. So instead of mortgaging my future I will be wise in my preparations. I will not be fanatical or fearful. No one knows when the end will come. Everyone who has ever claimed to know has been wrong.