ERayR Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Apparently I've already met my "likes" quota for the day so I couldn't give you a rep point, but you nail it right here! It seems to not be working. I was out when I started this morning.
ttribe Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Sorry, should let sleeping dogs lie. There's a long history, and I can't say I don't deserve some of what I get.AFAIK, it wasn't you who kicked the dogs. Edited August 25, 2015 by ttribe
The Nehor Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 It's dangerous to confuse God with fallible human beings. You don't give tithing to God, you give it to men, and hope that they show good judgement in using it in godly endeavors. Transparency would only help, not hinder that objective. Transparency is sound fiscal policy for any church or non-profit.I give it to God. His servants then use it. If it is mishandled that is God's problem and he can deal with it as he wishes. 1
JulieM Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Sorry, should let sleeping dogs lie. There's a long history, and I can't say I don't deserve some of what I get.Well, like I posted on that thread, it was very ugly.Here we are discussing critics of the church but I personally have not seen any critic post anything like how you were treated yesterday. 1
Gray Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 But it's not just one fallible human being we are talking about; it is many prophets and men called of God to handle it all (along with a very strict auditing program). Their collective righteousness and honesty and inspiration from God will keep any one person from mishandling it. Transparency would cause an enormous volume of criticisim from those who don't see the big picture like church leaders see it and they will want to counsel the leaders on how it should be spent. That's a big assumption. But bottom line is without any information we have no real idea what happens to most of the money. Sunshine is the best policy to help fallible people make the wisest use of donated resources. People act more ethically when they know they are being observed. That's just human nature. 2
Gray Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 I give it to God. His servants then use it. If it is mishandled that is God's problem and he can deal with it as he wishes. Sounds ominous.
The Nehor Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Sounds ominous.I suppose that depends on how serious the transgression is.
MorningStar Posted August 25, 2015 Author Posted August 25, 2015 Oh my! The examples are legion; virtually never-ending.The Church gets criticized for not opening its financials to public view. Yet if it did so, there would be no end to the carping, second-guessing and ignorant fault-finding about Church expenditure of funds. Not to mention frivolous or vexatious lawsuits by greedy people trying to raid the coffers of the church of deep pockets of latter-day saints. Yes, I figure if the church had a ginormous amount in savings, people would say that should go to the poor, but it might actually be for a "rainy day" (major disasters). I would never give to any organization if I questioned their motives. 1
ALarson Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Well, like I posted on that thread, it was very ugly.Here we are discussing critics of the church but I personally have not seen any critic post anything like how you were treated yesterday.Yes. Ironic, huh?
MorningStar Posted August 25, 2015 Author Posted August 25, 2015 I for one will not be satisfied until Mormonism is nothing but a vague memory in our cultural history, up there with platform sneakers and sparkling yogurt. Seriously, though, I think you're right that some people just like to find things to criticize, and if something is ever resolved, they'll move on to the next target. That's just human nature. What I find interesting is that criticism or commentary is taken very differently when it's from a church member. For example, when an active high priest muses about diversity in church videos, it's taken very differently than when a known critic says it. Well, of course. It would be like me reviewing a recipe that has mayonnaise in it when I have a history of hating mayonnaise with a passion. If a friend who likes mayonnaise had an issue with a recipe that has it as an ingredient, but felt like it didn't taste right in it, the reaction would be different. People would say to me, "You hate mayonnaise in everything!" This is the part where I go to Allrecipes.com and give every potato salad recipe with mayonnaise 1 star. "This was disgusting! It has mayonnaise in it!" Or 5 stars, "I substituted sour cream for the mayo, omitted the potatoes, added some tortillas, ground beef, cheese, diced tomatoes, olives, and cilantro. 5 stars! I would definitely make this again!" 2
Gray Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) I suppose that depends on how serious the transgression is. In any case, last I heard God operates through human beings, otherwise we wouldn't need a missionaries to spread the gospel. God could just send angels out to do it for us. Or beam discussions straight into people's homes. Edited August 25, 2015 by Gray 1
JAHS Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 That's a big assumption. But bottom line is without any information we have no real idea what happens to most of the money. Sunshine is the best policy to help fallible people make the wisest use of donated resources. People act more ethically when they know they are being observed. That's just human nature. They are being observed by God. That should strike more fear into them and a concern to do it right than being observed by the world or church members. Beleive it or not these men really do believe God is watching them and that they will have to answer for their actions. 2
ALarson Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Well, of course. It would be like me reviewing a recipe that has mayonnaise in it when I have a history of hating mayonnaise with a passion.So, you believe that jkwilliams hates the church "with a passion"?
CA Steve Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 I miss the good ole days when we were more concerned with Satan than what the critics were saying.
Gray Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 They are being observed by God. That should strike more fear into them and a concern to do it right than being observed by the world or church members. Beleive it or not these men really do believe God is watching them and that they will have to answer for their actions. Is no one else being observed by God? Most people in the world believe they are. In any case, human nature is what it is. I don't think general authorities become super humans when they get their callings. 1
ERayR Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Sorry, should let sleeping dogs lie. There's a long history, and I can't say I don't deserve some of what I get. Well, like I posted on that thread, it was very ugly.Here we are discussing critics of the church but I personally have not seen any critic post anything like how you were treated yesterday. I like brother Williams but I have at times been a sharp critic of his as on occasion he has been critical of me. That is part of what we do here. First I agree with his above quoted post but it is not what he did. That opened it up for criticism. Second JulieM you either have a short memory or have not been around long. I am pretty sure it is a short memory. Ones perception is colored by ones pov. From a different pov it would look different. I have seen some pretty harsh tone come from critics of the Church. 3
MorningStar Posted August 25, 2015 Author Posted August 25, 2015 Not if the church opens up their financial records and there's nothing to hide. There would be no criticism if the church were transparent regarding their finances unless they've spent the tithing money and other donations unwisely.There are problems on local levels when it comes to budgets. "Why does this group get x amount when this other group only gets x amount?" 1
ERayR Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Not if the church opens up their financial records and there's nothing to hide. There would be no criticism if the church were transparent regarding their finances unless they've spent the tithing money and other donations unwisely. Come now you don't really believe that, do you? If you do I have this neat bridge near me that spans the Snake River Canyon I would sell you.
sdc999 Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Then they aren't as TBM as they think they are. I don't care to see it at all. I trust that the church leaders in charge of using the Lord's tithing are taking care of it in the best way to further the work. Once I give God;s tithing to him; I no longer need to concern myself with it. So then you 'trust' that the missionaries could be alone with a single sister and you trust that the windows could be taken out of the doors in the classrooms? Surely if the Lord called someone to serve, he would 'trust' them as well. 1
jkwilliams Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 So, you believe that jkwilliams hates the church "with a passion"? Please don't make this about me. Then don't make this board about you. Again. Mods are aware of a lot and have long memories.
Teancum Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Oh my! The examples are legion; virtually never-ending.The Church gets criticized for not opening its financials to public view. Yet if it did so, there would be no end to the carping, second-guessing and ignorant fault-finding about Church expenditure of funds. Not to mention frivolous or vexatious lawsuits by greedy people trying to raid the coffers of the church of deep pockets of latter-day saints.Maybe the criticism for use of funds claim is partially valid. The claim on law suits is unfounded. Other religious institutions open their books and that does not make a difference for or against lawsuits.This thread is a fine specimen of th persecution complex that is still alive and well in the minds of true believing Mornons.
JulieM Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Second JulieM you either have a short memory or have not been around long. I am pretty sure it is a short memory.When I stated that I haven't seen this on here from a critic, it's because I haven't seen it. I can't speak for you or anyone else, but my memory is just fine.
ERayR Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 So, you believe that jkwilliams hates the church "with a passion"? Come now you know that isn't what she said. 2
ALarson Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Please don't make this about me.Good suggestion. We don't want a repeat of yesterday. Sorry.
ALarson Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Maybe the criticism for use of funds claim is partially valid. The claim on law suits is unfounded. Other religious institutions open their books and that does not make a difference for or against lawsuits.This thread is a fine specimen of th persecution complex that is still alive and well in the minds of true believing Mornons.My thought exactly. Seem there's plenty of whining from both sides.
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