rockpond Posted July 28, 2015 Author Posted July 28, 2015 Homo-sexuality is a religion? No. But some religions believe that God accepts and affirms gay unions. Some of those religions probably even charter BSA troops.
Danzo Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 No. But some religions believe that God accepts and affirms gay unions. Some of those religions probably even charter BSA troops. You can find a religion for any belief you want. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) We went after gays and marital rights. Before that we fought against housing rights for them.What you assert here a priori is highly debatable, but it would take the thread afield to do it here. It's been talked about before on this board. Section 134 repeatedly speaks to protecting free exercise of conscience. It speaks to preserving moral agency, which is the right to choose right or wrong but is not license to escape the consequences of choosing wrong. Edited July 28, 2015 by Scott Lloyd
MorningStar Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 Thank goodness it wasn't cooking wine! Laughed out loud! 1
Gray Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) The part I bolded makes me wonder why we have a multiple page thread about this subject then. And if there is no policy about Lesbiansim, how come? Have we only been concerned about the young men? Because some American political groups are convinced that the sky is falling on top of religious freedoms (loosely defined as the right of religious people to do anything they want whenever they want with no repercussions from either the government or other Americans). Why no concern over lesbians? Probably because a lot of our morality is based off of disgust. Edited July 28, 2015 by Gray
rockpond Posted July 28, 2015 Author Posted July 28, 2015 For starters http://politicalaffairs.net/the-communist-movement-and-gay-rights-the-hidden-history/ There are some good references on this article between the connections between the formative gay rights years and the communist party. Neither is a friend to the traditional values crowd (LDS hyper patriotism included). Now tell me where is the groundswell of units being chartered to accommodate gay youth, and the gay activist organizations sponsorship of those groups, to replace the chartered organizations who have withdrawn from the Scouts because they are not consistent with their values? I can tell you what has happened in our council (not Utah). None, nada, zip, zilch... No new units sponsored by secular organizations. No gain in membership due to new more open policies on membership. Those who sought to impose their values on a private organization despite the Supreme Court decision in Dale vs. Boy Scouts have not stepped up to provide services to youth. They just sought to make the BSA in their own likeness without contributing to the BSA in significant fashion. Seriously? Gay rights are now a communist plot? Seems like a fitting conclusion given (then) Elder Benson's proclamation that civil rights for blacks were a "communist program" (Oct 1967 Gen Con). How would a gay group sponsor a BSA troop? They couldn't serve as leaders! Just because you want an all heterosexual troop doesn't mean that gay rights groups want an all homosexual troop. Wanting access for gay leaders and scouts doesn't mean they want exclusively gay leaders and scouts. And, yes, there have been plenty of gay scouts and gay leaders. Some openly gay leaders even defied the ban and served anyway with permission from their troops (just as LDS troops registered openly gay scouts prior to the 2014 policy change). One of the recent cases that made news was then a NY Scout Camp hired the nation's first openly gay eagle scout to serve as a camp director. Gay scouts and leaders have invested in the BSA.
Scott Lloyd Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) Oh, for heaven's sake, let's dial down the hyperbole.Speaking of hyperbole, I was just re-reading. You said "dozens of trips to the ER over a three-day period." To be "dozens" it would had to have been at least two dozen, or 24 people from one youth trek rushed to the ER over a three-day period. That seems awfully high for a youth event, perhaps high enough to warrant investigation by public safety authorities. Were there really 24 or more people who required emergency medical treatment at health care facilities? How large was this youth trek? Maybe if it were several thousand participants, 24 ER trips wouldn't be as large a proportion of the whole. But the average stake youth trek is what, two or three hundred? Edited July 28, 2015 by Scott Lloyd
ttribe Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 Speaking of hyperbole, I was just re-reading. You said "dozens of trips to the ER over a three-day period." To be "dozens" it would had to have been at least two dozen, or 24 people from one youth trek rushed to the ER over a three-day period. That seems awfully high for a youth event, perhaps high enough to warrant investigation by public safety authorities. Were there really 24 or more people who required emergency medical treatment at health care facilities? How large was this youth trek? Maybe if it were several thousand participants, 24 ER trips wouldn't be as large a proportion of the whole. But the average stake youth trek is what, two or three hundred? Oh, my. Let it go.
Jeanne Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 The part I bolded makes me wonder why we have a multiple page thread about this subject then. And if there is no policy about Lesbiansim, how come? Have we only been concerned about the young men?In my observation, women/young girls are not to be concerned about in any criteria.
Jeanne Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 If you're willing, PM me the details. I have an open mind.Me too,
ERayR Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 In my observation, women/young girls are not to be concerned about in any criteria. Jeanne You know this is not true. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) Oh, my. Let it go.Maybe it was "dozens," but it just seems a little overblown, and I think it's fair to question the reported number. I'll leave it at that. Edited July 28, 2015 by Scott Lloyd
jkwilliams Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 Speaking of hyperbole, I was just re-reading. You said "dozens of trips to the ER over a three-day period." To be "dozens" it would had to have been at least two dozen, or 24 people from one youth trek rushed to the ER over a three-day period. That seems awfully high for a youth event, perhaps high enough to warrant investigation by public safety authorities. Were there really 24 or more people who required emergency medical treatment at health care facilities? How large was this youth trek? Maybe if it were several thousand participants, 24 ER trips wouldn't be as large a proportion of the whole. But the average stake youth trek is what, two or three hundred? It was our stake, probably about 200 kids. And I think it was around 35 kids who went to the ER, and about a dozen who were admitted.
ttribe Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) Maybe it was "dozens," but it just seems a little overblown, and I think it's fair to question the reported number. I'll leave it at that. The two bits of alleged hyperbole (Bobbieaware's and John's) are not even in the same ballpark. One was a personal attack and unnecessarily aggressive. One is about an estimated "number" as a description of severity. Edited July 28, 2015 by ttribe
Jeanne Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) Jeanne You know this is not true.You must have a different take on "concerned"..Young girls were expected to and approved to always sustain our fathers, our brothers, husbands and sons..and then to teach our daughters to do the same. I mentioned earlier on another that we should be MORE concerned about young girls alone in bishop interviews answering personal questions. P.S. ERayR..I respect you very much and your intelligence..but there is no way that you know what I know. Edited July 28, 2015 by Jeanne
Russell C McGregor Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 Don't forget that Alan Turing was gay and hence basically all modern computing. And committed suicide entirely without the baleful influence of Mormon "homophobia." 1
Russell C McGregor Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 So tell us again about how this is not going to affect the Church's ability to maintain "its standards of morality and chastity?" Thanks, -Smac It's like this, Smac: maintaining standards of morality and chastity has nothing whatever to do with religious freedom. The immoralists will say so. Just watch. 1
Danzo Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 You must have a different take on "concerned"..Young girls were expected to and approved to always sustain our fathers, our brothers, husbands and sons..and then to teach our daughters to do the same. I mentioned earlier on another that we should be MORE concerned about young girls alone in bishop interviews answering personal questions. P.S. ERayR..I respect you very much and your intelligence..but there is no way that you know what I know. I don't know what you know, And you don't know what I know However if we share our knowledge, then we can both be enlightened
Scott Lloyd Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 It was our stake, probably about 200 kids. And I think it was around 35 kids who went to the ER, and about a dozen who were admitted.OK. I think this is atypical. Our stake does a trek every two or three years, and I don't recall hearing of even one ER trip, though they do keep health-care volunteers on site to deal with emergencies.
jkwilliams Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 OK. I think this is atypical. Our stake does a trek every two or three years, and I don't recall hearing of even one ER trip, though they do keep health-care volunteers on site to deal with emergencies. I think it's atypical, too, hence my agreement with you that maybe a churchwide program would be better managed.
ttribe Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 OK. I think this is atypical. Our stake does a trek every two or three years, and I don't recall hearing of even one ER trip, though they do keep health-care volunteers on site to deal with emergencies. The leadership in your Stake is probably also smart enough to let people bring sunblock and other such modern "conveniences."
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 Talk about a derail. Trips to the ER for trek. It happens. So what.
jkwilliams Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 Talk about a derail. Trips to the ER for trek. It happens. So what. Scott suggested that the pioneer trek could partially replace scouting, and I said I thought a churchwide program would be less likely to end in disaster like the one my kids went on. Derail? Sure.
Tacenda Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 "Utahan" is pretty much unacceptable among Utahns.That is untrue, I'm a Utahan.
Saint Sinner Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 It's like this, Smac: maintaining standards of morality and chastity has nothing whatever to do with religious freedom. The immoralists will say so. Just watch.Persons without belief, like myself (though this isn't always clear either), are not amoral and therefore immoral. I hope that isn't your claim. I've read your posts. I may not always agree with you but I do see the value of consideration. Evidenced by your posts, you seem too intelligent to make the claim I've stated.
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