An Exemplary Mission?

[Senator]

You know what, I'm going to back out of this discussion. I debated whether or not to post this at all. It just hits to close to home.

[cinepro]

Having spent more time than I ever wanted to on that blog, it looks like the focus on "Exact Obedience" started in November of 2014:

 

It has been revealed to me that there are two reasons we are struggling with poor results right now:
1. Lack of Exact Obedience which leads to a lack of worthiness, commitment, and focus! I fear many are currently serving in a manner they will regret.
2. Lack of Desire which leads to complacency, laziness, and indifference! This, at the end of the day, is a result of a lack of conversion to our Missionary Purpose.

I think our current situation relative to our goal and desire to reach the "Strength of 1,000" has us exactly where the Lord wants us. He wants us to step up, give more, be more diligent, more obedient. In fact, He wants us to be Exactly Obedient so we can learn what it takes to baptize 100 a month. We will then know how as well as know that we can do it if we give what it takes and rely on Him in faith. We must do this so we will be prepared to assist the Wards and Stakes next year in their baptism goals - which will undoubtedly be more than 1,000.

 

Then two weeks later:

 

Your commitment to Exact Obedience has yielded a portion of the blessing we desire and I know the trend is set and the trajectory is clear. Last weekend, November 15th and 16th, we were blessed with 31 Baptisms - including a family of 6 in Madera. Wow! What a blessing! Thank you for "partnering" with the Lord as He Hastens His work! What we seek, the Strength of 1,000, will only come as a result of our Obedience, Worthiness, Commitment, Focus and Faith. You are on the right path and are "participating" with the Lord in His way as He Hastens His work. Now is the time to become even more Committed and Focused. Look in your lives to find where you can become even more Obedient and make the necessary changes.

[Duncan]

I had a friend years ago who quit the Church now but in his mission in Chile they had this cut out of Christ with his hands extended out, I think it was that second coming one by Harry Anderson. Anyways it was at the mission office. He said that all the missionaries that baptized that month their  headshots were on the right hand of Christ and all the ones that didn't were on the left hand of Christ. He told me he would cry because sometimes they couldn't get things going with people and whatever. Some GA came through the mission and saw this and took it down and did whatever

[SeekingUnderstanding]

Having spent more time than I ever wanted to on that blog, it looks like the focus on "Exact Obedience" started in November of 2014:

 

 

 

 

Then two weeks later:

 

Actually the first thing that he did when he got to the mission was have his wife talk on exact obedience: http://fresnomission.blogspot.com/2014/07/first-mission-leadership-council.html

 

Then taught on my most favorite topic - Exact Obedience.  I referenced 1 Chronicles 13:7-10 - the people were commanded not to touch the ark, the symbol of the covenant.  But when the oxen stumbled and the ark appeared to be falling, Uzza stretched forth his hand to steady it and was immediately killed by the Lord.  Uzza seemed justified (great opening to talk about justification).  President David O. McKay stated, this incident conveys a lesson of life obedience - full obedience.  

Edited May 27, 2015 by SeekingUnderstanding

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I knew a guy who served there then, Elder Filhart

That names sounds really familiar. Ill have to dig out all the old stuff and see.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Actually the first thing that he did when he got to the mission was have his wife talk on exact obedience: http://fresnomission.blogspot.com/2014/07/first-mission-leadership-council.html

Side note: I heard an interesting take on the ark steadying story.

Synopsis, it wasn't really the guy who stretched out his arm to steady the ark that the LORD was mad at, it was the whole assembly because they weren't carrying the ark according to how He had commanded, that poor shlub just got the brunt of punishment.

So just because we should try to steady the ark, doesn't mean the ark is fine or that we can't point out that there is an issue with it.

[ERayR]

I had a friend years ago who quit the Church now but in his mission in Chile they had this cut out of Christ with his hands extended out, I think it was that second coming one by Harry Anderson. Anyways it was at the mission office. He said that all the missionaries that baptized that month their  headshots were on the right hand of Christ and all the ones that didn't were on the left hand of Christ. He told me he would cry because sometimes they couldn't get things going with people and whatever. Some GA came through the mission and saw this and took it down and did whatever

 

Looks like there was a GA who indulged in a small amount of micromanagement. It is necessary sometimes.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I too served in a mission like this and in California and it got out of hand for about 3 years. I don't like the idea of tying obedience to baptism, I like the ideas of obedience and baptism but there is just so much involved for someone to get baptized and whether or not your shirt is ironed daily or your read your scriptures, as if God has checklist just waiting for you to do all these things and then he'll somehow make it so you baptize someone

In my mission our rebuttal, there were several in the Zone that had issues with the AP's words, that Noah must have been unfaithful because he only saved his own family. 

 

The idea that having baptisms is some sort of barometer on the missionaries obedience is so wrong. There are so many factors that lead to baptism or prevent a baptism. The idea that it is all in the missionaries hands is just wrong. That the only reason baptisms are not happening is because of the missionary.

 

And... I cannot tell you how many times I was told "it is not about numbers". But that is all it ever was about. It was all about this goal to get x amount of baptisms.

 

This blog is driving me nuts. And I have not even read most of it.

[ERayR]

Side note: I heard an interesting take on the ark steadying story.

Synopsis, it wasn't really the guy who stretched out his arm to steady the ark that the LORD was mad at, it was the whole assembly because they weren't carrying the ark according to how He had commanded, that poor shlub just got the brunt of punishment.

So just because we should try to steady the ark, doesn't mean the ark is fine or that we can't point out that there is an issue with it.

 

The "poor shlub" that got the brunt did so because it wasn't his job and he exceeded his authority so be careful.

[teddyaware]

As a father of a son that will be entering the mission field in the coming weeks, this "strategy" greatly concerns me.

 

http://fresnomission.blogspot.com/2015/05/presidents-weekly-why-of-exact-obedience.html

 

I actually took some time to read through more of the Fresno Mission's blog pages than the one singled out here. It's amazing what happens to one's perspective when you get to see the "other side of the story." (I'm wondering if I'm the only responder to this thread who even bothered to read some of the other entries on the Fresno Mission blog?) Anyway, the following words of counsel to the Church from President Uchtdorf are found prominently placed on the blog and appear to be a major contributory factor that caused the mission president to adopt the exact obedience approach. After carefully reading and digesting President Uchtdorf's inspired words, if one keeps an open mind, it will appear there's more spiritual heart and soul informing the Fresno Mission's exact obedience effort than just a slavish, ill-considered adherence to someone's idea of a "cult of strict obedience." Here are President Uchtdorf's words of counsel copied and pasted verbatim directly from the blog...

 

... Quoting from President Uchtdorf: "And yet for some of us, obedience to God’s commandments doesn’t always feel very joyful. Let’s face it: there may be some that seem harder or less appealing—commandments that we approach with the enthusiasm of a child sitting before a plate of healthy but hated vegetables. We grit our teeth and force ourselves to comply so that we can move on to more desirable activities.

 

"Perhaps during times such as these, we might find ourselves asking, “Do we really need to obey all of God’s commandments?”

 

"My response to this question is simple:

 

"I think God knows something we don’t—things that are beyond our capacity to comprehend! Our Father in Heaven is an eternal being whose experience, wisdom, and intelligence are infinitely greater than ours. Not only that, but He is also eternally loving, compassionate, and focused on one blessed goal: to bring to pass our immortality and eternal life.

 

"In other words, He not only knows what is best for you; He also anxiously wants you to choose what is best for you.

 

"If you believe this in your hearts—if you truly believe the great mission of our Heavenly Father is to exalt and glorify His children and that He knows best how to do it—doesn’t it make sense to embrace and follow His commandments, even the ones that appear difficult? Should we not cherish the light posts He has given that guide us through the darkness and the trials of mortality? They mark the way back to our heavenly home! By choosing Heavenly Father’s path, you lay a divine foundation for your personal progress...that will bless you throughout your life.

 

"Part of our challenge is, I think, that we imagine that God has all of His blessings locked in a huge cloud up in heaven, refusing to give them to us unless we comply with some strict, paternalistic requirements He has set up. But the commandments aren’t like that at all. In reality, Heavenly Father is constantly raining blessings upon us. It is our fear, doubt, and sin that, like an umbrella, block these blessings from reaching us.

 

"His commandments are the loving instructions and the divine help for us to close the umbrella so we can receive the shower of heavenly blessings.

 

"We need to accept that the commandments of God aren’t just a long list of good ideas. They aren’t “life hacks” from an Internet blog or motivational quotes from a Pinterest board. They are divine counsel, based on eternal truths, given to bring “peace in this world, and eternal life in the world to come.”

 

"So we have a choice. On the one hand, there is the opinion of the world with its ever-changing theories and questionable motives. On the other hand, there is God’s word to His children—His eternal wisdom, His certain promises, and His loving instructions for returning to His presence in glory, love, and majesty.

 

"The choice is yours!

 

"The Creator of the seas, sands, and endless stars is reaching out to you this very day! He is offering the grand recipe for happiness, peace, and eternal life!

 

"To qualify for these glorious blessings, you must humble yourself, exercise faith, take upon you the name of Christ, seek Him in word and deed, and resolutely “stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places.” ('Living the Gospel Joyfully" Uchtdorf, WC Oct 2014) 

[Senator]

One final question. If your son or daughter was in this mission and was writting home expressing anxiety, guilt, what would be your response to him or her?

 

What can or should a parent do in such a case?

[BookofMormonLuvr]

The "poor shlub" that got the brunt did so because it wasn't his job and he exceeded his authority so be careful.

 

Point is, the ark wouldn't have needed steadying if the had followed directions in the first place. They were ALL guilty, not just him. So for those who weren't struck down to feign some type of righteousness would've been folly. #deepthoughts

[ERayR]

 

Point is, the ark wouldn't have needed steadying if the had followed directions in the first place. They were ALL guilty, not just him. So for those who weren't struck down to feign some type of righteousness would've been folly. #deepthoughts

 

Or if he would have just let God handle it in his own way and own time.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Or if he would have just let God handle it in his own way and own time.

He shouldn't have put forth his hand, but there is nothing wrong with pointing out, "Hey, guys, we did this wrong, You might want to fix it." and hoping those in charge of carrying it will make the changes. The LORD isn't saying to just ignore obvious problems. 

Ooo, this is getting good, but probably should be in the Calderwood thread.

[Gray]

Another thought;  Basic military training is very successful application of micromanagement.   First get them going the right direction then move on to other things.

 

Maybe, except you don't move on to other things on the mission. It's just 2 solid years of micro management. Maybe understandable if it was teenagers flipping burgers. Doesn't really make sense when applied to gospel teaching. 

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

One final question. If your son or daughter was in this mission and was writting home expressing anxiety, guilt, what would be your response to him or her?

 

What can or should a parent do in such a case?

Try your best and focus on individuals and families and getting to know them and serve them. I know, you have to report numbers and sometimes people might judge you for it.

 

Goals might be based off of numbers too. But have the primary goal be about getting to know people and serve them in your area and testify of the truths of the gospel.

 

And if you slip up in some rule. Don't worry about. You are not sent there to be perfect but to be a witness.

 

P.S. If you know there is an area that you can improve in make the effort to do that. You will be blessed for it. Love you see you later.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

I actually took some time to read through more of the Fresno Mission's blog pages than the one singled out here. It's amazing what happens to one's perspective when you get to see the "other side of the story." (I'm wondering if I'm the only responder to this thread who even bothered to read some of the other entries on the Fresno Mission blog?) Anyway, the following words of counsel to the Church from President Uchtdorf are found prominently placed on the blog and appear to be a major contributory factor that caused the mission president to adopt the exact obedience approach. After carefully reading and digesting President Uchtdorf's inspired words, if one keeps an open mind, it will appear there's more spiritual heart and soul informing the Fresno Mission's exact obedience effort than just a slavish, ill-considered adherence to someone's idea of a "cult of strict obedience." Here are President Uchtdorf's words of counsel copied and pasted verbatim directly from the blog...

 

... Quoting from President Uchtdorf: "And yet for some of us, obedience to God’s commandments doesn’t always feel very joyful. Let’s face it: there may be some that seem harder or less appealing—commandments that we approach with the enthusiasm of a child sitting before a plate of healthy but hated vegetables. We grit our teeth and force ourselves to comply so that we can move on to more desirable activities.

 

"Perhaps during times such as these, we might find ourselves asking, “Do we really need to obey all of God’s commandments?”

 

"My response to this question is simple:

 

"I think God knows something we don’t—things that are beyond our capacity to comprehend! Our Father in Heaven is an eternal being whose experience, wisdom, and intelligence are infinitely greater than ours. Not only that, but He is also eternally loving, compassionate, and focused on one blessed goal: to bring to pass our immortality and eternal life.

 

"In other words, He not only knows what is best for you; He also anxiously wants you to choose what is best for you.

 

"If you believe this in your hearts—if you truly believe the great mission of our Heavenly Father is to exalt and glorify His children and that He knows best how to do it—doesn’t it make sense to embrace and follow His commandments, even the ones that appear difficult? Should we not cherish the light posts He has given that guide us through the darkness and the trials of mortality? They mark the way back to our heavenly home! By choosing Heavenly Father’s path, you lay a divine foundation for your personal progress...that will bless you throughout your life.

 

"Part of our challenge is, I think, that we imagine that God has all of His blessings locked in a huge cloud up in heaven, refusing to give them to us unless we comply with some strict, paternalistic requirements He has set up. But the commandments aren’t like that at all. In reality, Heavenly Father is constantly raining blessings upon us. It is our fear, doubt, and sin that, like an umbrella, block these blessings from reaching us.

 

"His commandments are the loving instructions and the divine help for us to close the umbrella so we can receive the shower of heavenly blessings.

 

"We need to accept that the commandments of God aren’t just a long list of good ideas. They aren’t “life hacks” from an Internet blog or motivational quotes from a Pinterest board. They are divine counsel, based on eternal truths, given to bring “peace in this world, and eternal life in the world to come.”

 

"So we have a choice. On the one hand, there is the opinion of the world with its ever-changing theories and questionable motives. On the other hand, there is God’s word to His children—His eternal wisdom, His certain promises, and His loving instructions for returning to His presence in glory, love, and majesty.

 

"The choice is yours!

 

"The Creator of the seas, sands, and endless stars is reaching out to you this very day! He is offering the grand recipe for happiness, peace, and eternal life!

 

"To qualify for these glorious blessings, you must humble yourself, exercise faith, take upon you the name of Christ, seek Him in word and deed, and resolutely “stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places.” ('Living the Gospel Joyfully" Uchtdorf, WC Oct 2014) 

Can you give a link?

 

I read through a lot of his blog and don't recall seeing this. Google doesn't help either:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=site%3Afresnomission.blogspot.com%20uchtdorf

 

Edit found it:

http://fresnomission.blogspot.com/2015/05/presidents-weekly-ripple-effect-of.html

Edited May 27, 2015 by SeekingUnderstanding

[teddyaware]

Can you give a link?

 

I read through a lot of his blog and don't recall seeing this. Google doesn't help either:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=site%3Afresnomission.blogspot.com%20uchtdorf

 

Click on the "2015" on the right side of the page and then scroll down a bit till you se the following heading:

 

MONDAY, MAY 11, 2015

PRESIDENT'S WEEKLY - THE RIPPLE EFFECT OF EXACT OBEDIENCE

 

Edited to add: Didn't realize I was providing the above link.

 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2015 by teddyaware

[cinepro]

I actually took some time to read through more of the Fresno Mission's blog pages than the one singled out here. It's amazing what happens to one's perspective when you get to see the "other side of the story." (I'm wondering if I'm the only responder to this thread who even bothered to read some of the other entries on the Fresno Mission blog?) Anyway, the following words of counsel to the Church from President Uchtdorf are found prominently placed on the blog and appear to be a major contributory factor that caused the mission president to adopt the exact obedience approach. After carefully reading and digesting President Uchtdorf's inspired words, if one keeps an open mind, it will appear there's more spiritual heart and soul informing the Fresno Mission's exact obedience effort than just a slavish, ill-considered adherence to someone's idea of a "cult of strict obedience." Here are President Uchtdorf's words of counsel copied and pasted verbatim directly from the blog...

 

... Quoting from President Uchtdorf: "And yet for some of us, obedience to God’s commandments doesn’t always feel very joyful. Let’s face it: there may be some that seem harder or less appealing—commandments that we approach with the enthusiasm of a child sitting before a plate of healthy but hated vegetables. We grit our teeth and force ourselves to comply so that we can move on to more desirable activities.

 

"Perhaps during times such as these, we might find ourselves asking, “Do we really need to obey all of God’s commandments?”

 

"My response to this question is simple:

 

"I think God knows something we don’t—things that are beyond our capacity to comprehend! Our Father in Heaven is an eternal being whose experience, wisdom, and intelligence are infinitely greater than ours. Not only that, but He is also eternally loving, compassionate, and focused on one blessed goal: to bring to pass our immortality and eternal life.

 

"In other words, He not only knows what is best for you; He also anxiously wants you to choose what is best for you.

 

"If you believe this in your hearts—if you truly believe the great mission of our Heavenly Father is to exalt and glorify His children and that He knows best how to do it—doesn’t it make sense to embrace and follow His commandments, even the ones that appear difficult? Should we not cherish the light posts He has given that guide us through the darkness and the trials of mortality? They mark the way back to our heavenly home! By choosing Heavenly Father’s path, you lay a divine foundation for your personal progress...that will bless you throughout your life.

 

"Part of our challenge is, I think, that we imagine that God has all of His blessings locked in a huge cloud up in heaven, refusing to give them to us unless we comply with some strict, paternalistic requirements He has set up. But the commandments aren’t like that at all. In reality, Heavenly Father is constantly raining blessings upon us. It is our fear, doubt, and sin that, like an umbrella, block these blessings from reaching us.

 

"His commandments are the loving instructions and the divine help for us to close the umbrella so we can receive the shower of heavenly blessings.

 

"We need to accept that the commandments of God aren’t just a long list of good ideas. They aren’t “life hacks” from an Internet blog or motivational quotes from a Pinterest board. They are divine counsel, based on eternal truths, given to bring “peace in this world, and eternal life in the world to come.”

 

"So we have a choice. On the one hand, there is the opinion of the world with its ever-changing theories and questionable motives. On the other hand, there is God’s word to His children—His eternal wisdom, His certain promises, and His loving instructions for returning to His presence in glory, love, and majesty.

 

"The choice is yours!

 

"The Creator of the seas, sands, and endless stars is reaching out to you this very day! He is offering the grand recipe for happiness, peace, and eternal life!

 

"To qualify for these glorious blessings, you must humble yourself, exercise faith, take upon you the name of Christ, seek Him in word and deed, and resolutely “stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places.” ('Living the Gospel Joyfully" Uchtdorf, WC Oct 2014) 

 

Uh, I don't see anything in that talk by President Uchtdorf that tempers the focus on "Exact Obedience".  It certainly offers a perspective on why obedience brings blessings, but when placed alongside the other statements about Exact Obedience, it serves to reinforce the importance of Exact Obedience (including the link between Exact Obedience and baptisms).  In the CFM, the "blessings" God wants to rain down are baptisms, and the reason missionaries aren't getting all the baptisms they should is because they're not being exactly obedient.

 

Especially in the context of their other statements on the blog.

Edited May 27, 2015 by cinepro

[ALarson]

Looks like he expects "exact obedience" from his wife too:

 

President Clark:  "I felt very prompted to have Bonnie teach obedience at the MLC.  I started by asking her to give her farewell talk - which she was hesitant to do. I continued to feel prompted that she needed to speak on obedience.  She may not have been enthused but she was obedient.

 

 

 

[Tacenda]

Looks like he expects "exact obedience" from his wife too:

My blood just started to boil.

[mapman]

I recently returned from a mission in Argentina. Reading the blog post brings back a lot of memories. I'm very happy that I went on a mission, it was truly the best thing I've ever done so far in my life. That being said, much of my time in the mission was an exercise in learning to recognize and appreciate the beautiful experience of preaching the Gospel while being pressured about numbers and having to deal with rules that (in my opinion) were more strict than necessary and with the vain ambition of some missionaries trying to get leadership positions or whatever. I think that I largely succeeded in finding the beautiful parts of serving a mission and keeping my intentions pure, and I think that most missionaries are able to do that, but for some of them it is easy to get caught up in numbers, leadership positions, or enforcing rules. In my mission we also had problems with sketchy baptisms, missionaries baptizing people without going through the established requirements and process of the church (I worked with the mission president to do damage control in some of these cases).

 

I feel like missions are always amazing experiences for spiritual growth for the missionaries, but the work that missionaries do isn't always very effective. If we were to eliminate all the unnecesary stuff (obsession with numbers, obsession with rules, etc.) it would still be a great experience for the missionaries, but would also be a lot more efficient work. The church would grow faster and retention would be higher. From my experience the problems usually originate with the missionaries; my mission president was actively trying to change things, though I'm sure it varies from mission to mission.

 

In my experience, successful missionaries are those that have the spirit with them and that do things in an effective way. You can be super obedient, but if you don't do things in an effecient way, it just won't work. To recieve revelation and help from the spirit you should have pure motives (do things only to serve God and your fellow men and women), have faith, strive to be obedient, and use your brain to try to figure out the best way to do things. Obedience is very important, but it won't automatically cause revelation to drop out of heaven, and in the end it won't save you. You must have faith and a pure heart as well.

Edited May 27, 2015 by mapman

[teddyaware]

Uh, I don't see anything in that talk by President Uchtdorf that tempers the focus on "Exact Obedience".  It certainly offers a perspective on why obedience brings blessings, but when placed alongside the other statements about Exact Obedience, it serves to reinforce the importance of Exact Obedience (including the link between Exact Obedience and baptisms).  In the CFM, the "blessings" God wants to rain down are baptisms, and the reason missionaries aren't getting all the baptisms they should is because they're not being exactly obedient.

 

Especially in the context of their other statements on the blog.

 

If this stake president takes President Uchtdorf's remarks seriously -- and I'm sure he does --  it indicates he's trying to help the missionaries under his charge find a greater happiness by joyfully surrendering to the will of God. And I'll bet the majority of the missionaries who serve under his leadership really do believe in their hearts, despite what's been said thus far on this thread, that he loves them and has their eternal best interests at heart.

 

And I'm quite sure that if it were possible for the mission president to be able to speak for himself he would make a good, scripturally-based case for the reasons why he adopted his particular approach to missionary work. I'm also confident he would offer up clarifications that would reasonably answer and satisfy many of the objections to the program that have been made on this thread. And I must say that since there seems to be a widely-held presumption the program is being heartlessly administered without love and compassion, I would caution all that each one of us will be judged by the same measure of judgement that we use to judge others.  And since the mission president can't defend himself, may I suggest that those who have been blasting him become thoroughly acquainted with the contents of the mission blog before continuing to believe he's the LDS equivalent to Simon Legree? 

[bluebell]

Even the Law of Moses, he was willing to stretch. 

 

Mission rules and general good moral principles are really two different topics. I agree that Jesus taught that people should follow good moral principles. 

 

I can't think of any part of the law of Moses that Christ did not keep.  Nor can i think of any time when Jesus did not teach obedience to commandments and instead simply wanted everyone to have good morals.

 

[bluebell]

Wow.  There are a lot of interesting statements about "exact obedience" on that blog:

 

If he would have ended with something along the lines of 'you won't be able to be exactly obedient, but hungering after it your entire life will bring about many blessings.  Don't forget the miracle of the Atonement for the times when you fall short....' the rest would have been salvageable.