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Maxwell Institute: Book Of Mormon Could Be "modern" And "fictional" (?)


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Posted

In a recent blog post, John Gee "reviews" an article recently published by the Maxwell Institute at BYU.

 

The blog post is here:

 

On the Latest Anti-Mormon Attack on the Book of Mormon I

 

The original article is here, but behind a paywall:

 

Theological Apostacy and the Role of Canonical Scripture

 

Can anyone read the original article and confirm that it says what Gee says it says?  Because if such an article was really published by the Maxwell Institute, I would have to say I'm really surprised.  Here are some of the excerpted quotes:

 

What I am suggesting, in essence, is that the Book of Mormon could be taken as a genuinely restored ancient text with a fictional narrative that originated in the Old World

(Owen, "Theological Apostasy and the Role of Canonical Scripture," 99)

Joseph Smith (or someone in his circle) could have read 2 Esdras in the King James Version of the Apocrypha and perhaps had access to commentary on its meaning through libraries and cultural knowledge.

(Owen, "Theological Apostasy and the Role of Canonical Scripture," 94.)

Consequently, Owen maintains

that the gold plates that were shown to Joseph Smith by the angel Moroni [were] not necessarily historical artifacts from the history of the America

(Owen, "Theological Apostasy and the Role of Canonical Scripture," 97.)

[it] would allow the Book of Mormon to be taken as simultaneously modern and fictional, on the one hand, and miraculous and inclusive of authentic ancient material on the other. It would thus bring the manner of the production of the Book of Mormon more in line with the restoration of other ancient texts (e.g., the Book of Abraham, the Book of Moses, Doctrine and Covenants 7).

(Owen, "Theological Apostasy and the Role of Canonical Scripture," 98.)

Posted

So the angel Moroni was just the author and the two characters named Moroni were just author-insertion.

Kind of sad that the angel did not explain it to Joseph and we are left waiting for the inaptly Maxwell Institute to figure this out, I wonder if Elder Maxwell even now asking for permission to call down fire from heaven and consume the apostates. I am tempted to add my prayer to his if that is the case.

Posted

Calm down people. Calm down Gee. Paul Owen is not Mormon. He's published in FARMS back in 1998.

FARMS has always allowed nice guys to publish opposing viewpoints.

If it's the right Paul Owen, he is an evangelical turned Anglican.

Posted

And I think it's awesome a non-LDS scholar recognizes there may be something supernatural with the BOM!

Posted

I'm well aware of who Mr. Owen is.  I'm well aware that he is not, by far, the worst critic extant of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  I'm aware of some of his prior publishing history.  That doesn't mean that I must be happy that he has been granted a forum in a publication of the flagship university of the Church of Jesus Christ, or that I must be happy about what he writes therein.  I must say that, while I don't support purported tithe payers who wish to have a say in how the Lord spends His money, that shoe is, to however small a degree, now on the other foot: I can certainly see why a tithe payer might wonder whether BYU giving Mr. Owen a forum is the wisest use of sacred funds.

Posted

And I think it's awesome a non-LDS scholar recognizes there may be something supernatural with the BOM!

Excuse us if we don't dissolve into paroxysms of ecstasy.  Mr. Owen's ... Ahem! ... "praise" ... is rather faint.

Posted

In a recent blog post, John Gee "reviews" an article recently published by the Maxwell Institute at BYU.

The blog post is here:

On the Latest Anti-Mormon Attack on the Book of Mormon I

The original article is here, but behind a paywall:

Theological Apostacy and the Role of Canonical Scripture

Can anyone read the original article and confirm that it says what Gee says it says? Because if such an article was really published by the Maxwell Institute, I would have to say I'm really surprised. Here are some of the excerpted quotes:

Well it seems like there's lots of people here that don't believe in horses, steel swords, wheat, etc. etc., that is mentioned in the book of Mormon. Just playing devils advocate here, but at what point does subjective belief become frowned upon. How much disbelief is okay as long as you don't take it to the next level? And what is that level? I think to some degree we all justify things away or rationalize beliefs to fit into a perceived paradigm or understanding.

Where exactly is that line in the sand that makes one a believer or not? At what level is it okay to believe or not believe?

Just another interpretation by another scholar, there can't help but be many more to follow...

Things that make you go hmmmmmmm...

Posted

Calm down people. Calm down Gee. Paul Owen is not Mormon. He's published in FARMS back in 1998.

FARMS has always allowed nice guys to publish opposing viewpoints.

If it's the right Paul Owen, he is an evangelical turned Anglican.

Oh, then boring!

Posted

Paul Owen tries to be charitable to the LDS within the confines of his theological bias. I also think he is trying to give tools to nonlds who are willng to consider the Book of Mormon. I like his writings for the most part.

Posted

How can you not grab this lifeline?  ... [i opted to view this post, but don't expect me to see or to view any of your replies unless someone else quotes them.]

 

Because ... I'm not drowning?

 

To each, his or her own.  If one finds value in the Book of Mormon but believes it to not be historical, more power to him or her.  That said, the only things more preposterous to me than the original story of the Book of Mormon's coming forth are the attempts to remove that event from the realm of the supernatural.  As I said on another board:

 

I don’t think the question of Book of Mormon historicity can be considered apart from the history of the Restoration. Book of Mormon historicity is one thing; Book of Mormon historicity, in light of the fact that figures in the Restoration claimed to have interactions with actual objects that purport to be a part of the narrative (plates, but also other objects), is another thing; and Book of Mormon historicity in light of the fact that figures in the Restoration claimed to have interactions with actual beings purporting to have lived during Book of Mormon times in Book of Mormon locales is still another.

 

The Book of Mormon is entirely too obsessed with its own purported source material to be a good fraud. If Joseph Smith is a fraudster, he violated the first rule of fraud—repeatedly: “Keep it simple, stupid.” If one is going to perpetrate a fraud, he should have a convincing back story. First mistake? Angels/heavenly beings! Second mistake? Plates (and not only plates, but plates that refer to [several sets of] other plates)!

 

The only thing less convincing than the Book of Mormon’s actual narrative (and the narrative of its coming forth) are the various narratives that attempt to account for all of the evidence while explaining away its supernatural origins. It’s as though God said, “Let’s see, what am I going to need to restore my church? The Bible won’t do it. That’s just been confusing everybody for hundreds of years. I need a new (purportedly) sacred text. Should it be on parchment? Stone tablets? Nah! It’s been done. Hey, I think I’ve got it: Plates!” And it’s as though he then said, “If I’ve gonna have plates, I’ve got to have a hologram of an Angel Moroni …” And away He went from there.

 

Posted (edited)

How can you not grab this lifeline?  This is the best apologetic argument that I've ever heard for the historicity problems in the BoM. In fact, it's so good that I'm going to give reading the BoM another shot.  And I'm 100% serious (well, not about trying to read the entire BoM again, but about the other part).

 

Is the Book of Job any less scripture, although it appears largely allegorical?  And, to my knowledge, there is no disclaimer at the beginning of Job that states that it is a work of fiction.  I suspect that, at some point, early readers of this work thought that it was a real story that actually happened.  When later scholars began to question that narrative, they didn't throw it out as a "fraud."  It still has valuable lessons to teach us.  Why couldn't that be the case here?

 

In fact, I would see this as likely, given the non-historical nature of some of the events in the OT and NT.  In fact, the Savior taught almost entirely through fictional stories.  Yet, He didn't start them with a disclaimer ("Now, you know none of this really happened, right?").  Instead, He launched into the story without any explanation whatsoever.  Given how often He was misunderstood, I'm almost certain that some of those people walked away thinking that there was actually a Prodigal Son, Good Samaritan, etc.

 

Isn't it at least possible that this is what happened to JS with the BoM?  Would he be any less inspired and a prophet if he translated an ancient Book of Job?  Or, say, an ancient Book of Samuel, where there is a mix of historical and non-historical information?  It would seem to answer many of the questions about horses, steel, etc., while still leaving open the possibility of the historicity of the rest of the narrative.

 

As I see it, Paul Owen should be made an "honorary Mormon" (right along with C.S. Lewis).n

 

This sounds exactly how one would expect the devil to act in his mission to carefully lead the souls of men down to hell: If he can't get the Latter-day Saints to repudiate and reject the Book of Mormon all at once, the devil will first tempt the weak in faith to feel some discomfort and embarrassment over the fact that the Book of Mormon's historicity and truthfulness cannot be confirmed by earthly means (because by divine design there is no other way to verify its historicity and authenticity other than to receive confirmatory revelation from heaven) and then employ a clever scheme to further persuade these same weak members to adopt the untenable position that the Book of Mormon is somehow both true and untrue at the same time! 

 

As strange as it seems, the adoption of this "hybrid" position of the Book of Mormon being both true and untrue will unavoidably lead these people to believe and disbelieve in the Book of Mormon at the same time; and this, in turn, will effectively set the stage for the inevitable day when the Book of Mormon will be rejected outright. Then, spiritually speaking, more souls will bite the dust as they exit the Church. The adoption of this bizarre position on the Book of Mormon can be likened to the proverbial camel who first pokes his nose into a tent without any apparent harm, only to be followed by the camel recklessly plowing forward with the tent being uprooted, torn to the ground and trampled upon.

 

Rather than grabbing mormonnewby's false and faithless "lifeline" of simultaneous belief and unbelief in the Book of Mormon, I strongly recommend that the faithful saints lay a firm grip on the iron rod of word of God, for it will safely guide us through the treacherous waters that lie ahead. 

 

 

10 And now, my beloved brethren, and also Jew, and all ye ends of the earth, hearken unto these words andbelieve in Christ; and if ye believe not in these words believe in Christ. And if ye shall believe in Christ ye will believe in these words, for they are the words of Christ, and he hath given them unto me; and they teach all men that they should do good.

 11 And if they are not the words of Christ, judge ye—for Christ will show unto you, with power and great glory, that they are his words, at the last day; and you and I shall stand face to face before his bar; and ye shall know that I have been commanded of him to write these things, notwithstanding my weakness. (2 Nephi 33)

Edited by teddyaware
Posted

Calm down people. Calm down Gee. Paul Owen is not Mormon. He's published in FARMS back in 1998.

FARMS has always allowed nice guys to publish opposing viewpoints.

If it's the right Paul Owen, he is an evangelical turned Anglican.

Paul Owen and his colleague Carl Mosser have had some very nice things to say about LDS scholarship.  Particularly LDS apologetics.  In any case, Mark Wright, speaking for the editors of JBMS, explains: 

 

“Theological Apostasy and the Role of Canonical Scripture: A Thematic Analysis of 1 Nephi 13-14″ is the work of Paul Owen. His detailed exegesis of the apocalyptic portions of Nephi’s vision serve to highlight the tension between Mormonism and the wider Christian tradition.

 

Indeed, Owen's views are equally applicable to biblical literature, in that, as we know, much of biblical primeval history also appears in much earlier works in Mesopotamia (creation, flood, etc.).  One could rightly ask whether the appearance of such mythic and epic materials in the Bible is meant to be taken literally?  Or are they merely part of a standard, poetic and symbolic liturgy?  What can a form critical analysis tell us about such texts?

Posted

It all depends on whether one has enough faith in the strength of his position to withstand an occasional buffeting from outside. Brother Brigham allowed anti-Mormons to speak in the Tabernacle without fear that his flock might be converted.  Of course, he had the very able Orson Pratt there to deliver a defense (Orson won the debate hands down).

 

Faithful Mormon scholars at FARMS hosted Owen & Mosser years ago when, as theology grad-students, they sought to examine in-depth the validity of Mormon apologetics.  They came away deeply impressed:  See their remarkable “Mormon Scholarship, Apologetics, and Evangelical Neglect: Losing the Battle and Not Knowing It?" Trinity Journal, 19/2 new series (Fall 1998):179-205.  First delivered on April 25, 1997, at the Evangelical Society Far West Annual Meeting.  Available online at  http://www.cometozarahemla.org/others/mosser-owen.html .

 

We need to be good neighbors to such sincere and serious scholars.  They are our friends, and they don't need to convert to prove it.

What part of, "I'm well aware of some of [Mr. Owen's] prior publishing history" do you not understand, Sir?  As much as I support "being good neighbors to such sincere and serious scholars" (e.g., while Pastor Johnson may not be a scholar, I support the bridge building efforts of Robert Millet and Pastor Greg Johnson between Mormonism and other Christian faiths), such efforts need not necessarily include providing them a forum in one of the publications of the flagship university of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  I'm sure Mr. Owen does not struggle in the least to find fora for his work.  He's perfectly welcome to publish it in such fora.  We should reserve ours for responding.

Posted

Where exactly is that line in the sand that makes one a believer or not? At what level is it okay to believe or not believe?

I think this goes along with 1 Corinthians 8.

 

Knowledge can both puff up and increase faith. Charity always edifies. So I think the line is not so much "what" but "how" the scholar honors and expresses his knowledge and faith to charitable edify others, and how much charity one can display toward the scholar in any perceived missteps. I think charity is appropriate for anyone to apply in his profession / vocation or any other endeavor that applies his knowledge.

 

Some articles prepared in "this liberty" may well "become a stumblingblock to them that are weak." And so the counsel to "take heed" for those who have ears to hear.  But any reader who is inclined to become "emboldened" to disbelieve the Book of Mormon because of this scholarly treatment may well need (paraphrasing President Hinckley) more friends, more responsibility, and more "nurturing with “the good word of God,” and that is the role of the faithful. I'm sure the Spirit strives with both scholars and readers to do just that.

Posted

This sounds exactly how one would expect the devil to act in his mission to carefully lead the souls of men down to hell: If he can't get the Latter-day Saints to repudiate and reject the Book of Mormon all at once, the devil will first tempt the weak in faith to feel some discomfort and embarrassment over the fact that the Book of Mormon's historicity and truthfulness cannot be confirmed by earthly means (because by divine design there is no other way to verify its historicity and authenticity other than to receive confirmatory revelation from heaven) and then employ a clever scheme to further persuade these same weak members to adopt the untenable position that the Book of Mormon is somehow both true and untrue at the same time! 

 

As strange as it seems, the adoption of this "hybrid" position of the Book of Mormon being both true and untrue will unavoidably lead these people to believe and disbelieve in the Book of Mormon at the same time; and this, in turn, will effectively set the stage for the inevitable day when the Book of Mormon will be rejected outright. Then, spiritually speaking, more souls will bite the dust as they exit the Church. The adoption of this bizarre position on the Book of Mormon can be likened to the proverbial camel who first pokes his nose into a tent without any apparent harm, only to be followed by the camel recklessly plowing forward with the tent being uprooted, torn to the ground and trampled upon.

 

Rather than grabbing mormonnewby's false and faithless "lifeline" of simultaneous belief and unbelief in the Book of Mormon, I strongly recommend that the faithful saints lay a firm grip on the iron rod of word of God, for it will safely guide us through the treacherous waters that lie ahead. 

 

 

10 And now, my beloved brethren, and also Jew, and all ye ends of the earth, hearken unto these words andbelieve in Christ; and if ye believe not in these words believe in Christ. And if ye shall believe in Christ ye will believe in these words, for they are the words of Christ, and he hath given them unto me; and they teach all men that they should do good.

 11 And if they are not the words of Christ, judge ye—for Christ will show unto you, with power and great glory, that they are his words, at the last day; and you and I shall stand face to face before his bar; and ye shall know that I have been commanded of him to write these things, notwithstanding my weakness. (2 Nephi 33)

 

Rally the cherubims and flaming sword!!!

 

,,,,,,,,,,,,all off of a couple context free quotes...

 

 

That's why I love this place!!!

 

It is SO entertaining.

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